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Thread: Dire Straits - Mark Knopfler

  1. #26
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Heard The Bug on the radio yesterday, and it's one of those tracks I dislike like Walk Of Life, etc...
    I'd even forgotten it existed - I never owned On Every Street - the obly Straits studio album I never brought home, actually - and I never did bring On The Night either. Maybe I should reinvestigate.

    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    But the third time through I knew there was something different here and sure enough... All the songs on side 1 are between 1 and 3 minutes longer on CD than on LP. Isn't that weird??! I realize this was the dawn of the CD era and bands and producers were trying to figure out what to do with the extra length of CD. But these are pop songs and the extra minutes don't help much, or maybe it is just not what I was used to?

    I don't know of any other LP that did this, except for maybe as a "bonus" track on a remaster (cf., Caravan Golf Girl). Did any other albums do this upon initial release? ever?
    Never heard about this really. I did buy the vinyl when it came out, but by the time I crossed the pond, and fi nally got into CD, BIA was not a priority, so I finally did buy some 15 or 20 years ago, the vinyl's track lengths had left little memory, but I seem to remember that the tracks on the flipside were generally longer than on the A-side. But since MM, Straits always had longer tracks anyways (especially in an 80's decade where longer tracks were frowned upon), especially comparing to their 70's albums.

    BTW, I just checked on RYM and Discogs and indeed it is the case (not easily fiound, the track lengths on the vinyl) and thankfully not WoL.

    As for changing track lengths to fit an Lp or cassette, I only remember the change of track order/sequence for an easier fit on cassette, which I thought sucked (it was reminiscent of those ugly 8 tracks), because having a few minutes blank on on of the cassette's side was only a problem when auto-reversing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    As for Brothers in Arms, my first contact with it was on cassette, so I only learned about the shorter LP versions much later. And it wasn't that the songs were extended to fill the CD, but that the intended versions had to be edited to fit the LP. Love Over Gold already had a lot of extended soloing and playouts, so it was the direction that Knopfler had chosen. Whether it works is debatable. Personally, I find the extended playout of "Why Worry" to be really atmospheric and really better than the actual song.
    So the cassette and CD have the same track lengths, then??

    I personally wouldn't have minded in the tracks on nthe flipside had been extended , rather than those on the A-side.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    Never heard about this really. I did buy the vinyl when it came out, but by the time I crossed the pond, and fi nally got into CD, BIA was not a priority, so I finally did buy some 15 or 20 years ago, the vinyl's track lengths had left little memory, but I seem to remember that the tracks on the flipside were generally longer than on the A-side. But since MM, Straits always had longer tracks anyways (especially in an 80's decade where longer tracks were frowned upon), especially comparing to their 70's albums.

    BTW, I just checked on RYM and Discogs and indeed it is the case (not easily fiound, the track lengths on the vinyl) and thankfully not WoL.

    As for changing track lengths to fit an Lp or cassette, I only remember the change of track order/sequence for an easier fit on cassette, which I thought sucked (it was reminiscent of those ugly 8 tracks), because having a few minutes blank on on of the cassette's side was only a problem when auto-reversing.



    So the cassette and CD have the same track lengths, then??

    I personally wouldn't have minded in the tracks on nthe flipside had been extended , rather than those on the A-side.
    That's whole point: none of the tracks were extended, only four of the tracks on the A-side were shortened, because otherwise the side would have been about 33 minutes long. The LP B-side runs about 23 minutes, and its four songs are pretty much the same length as the original versions. I suppose they could have fitted the full-length versions on the A-side, if they had dropped "Walk of Life", which I understand the co-producer Neil Dorfsman was advocating they do. I'm glad the band stuck to their guns (their accountants were, as well), but of course you would have been happier.

    The cassette version was the same as CD, as the tape didn't have to be sixty minutes split in two. As a contemporary example, Peter Gabriel's So had "This is the Picture (Excellent Birds)" on CD and MC versions, but not on the LP. Gabriel is also an example of the easier fit thing you mention. I got to know his first two solo albums on cassette, and I grew to consider their running order as definitive, making it hard to adjust to the CD versions that have the same running order as the LP. I once read that the cassette running order would have been Gabriel's original intended one, but since the CD versions make no changes, this is probably untrue.

  3. #28
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    That's whole point: none of the tracks were extended, only four of the tracks on the A-side were shortened, because otherwise the side would have been about 33 minutes long. The LP B-side runs about 23 minutes, and its four songs are pretty much the same length as the original versions. I suppose they could have fitted the full-length versions on the A-side, if they had dropped "Walk of Life", which I understand the co-producer Neil Dorfsman was advocating they do. I'm glad the band stuck to their guns (their accountants were, as well), but of course you would have been happier.
    If you got one side at 33 and the other at 23, shifting one shorter track (the 4-mins Walk Of Life in this case) to the shorter side, would've made the side 29 and 27 minutes respectively and this is normally feasible. It's not like I ever perceived BIA as a concept album. We know that people like Schulze managed to cram 30 mins per side (Time Wind, for ex).
    But yeah, i'd have been happer with WoL as a non-album single or never released.

    Anyways, the BIA album is hisdtorically the first album to have broken the CD to the mass market (fbefore that, Cd was still condfidential), so plenty of people had the longer versions (those buying either the cassette or the CD)

    ===========

    another case is the atrocious cut of the Speed King intro in the In Rock North Am version.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    DS was one of the very first bands to have their albums released on CD due to their record company's links with Phillips who were pioneering the format and made some of the first players commercially available. Their earliest CD machines came with one of two different sampler compilations each containing a DS track along with other music selected to suit a variety of tastes (mainly classical). I still have my copy somewhere.
    When BIA was released it became the flagship for the CD revolution.
    Strangely, there has never been a DS boxset (just greatest hits compilations) and ironically to this day there are a handful of early DS single B-sides that have never been officially released on CD!

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by r2daft2 View Post
    DS was one of the very first bands to have their albums released on CD due to their record company's links with Phillips who were pioneering the format and made some of the first players commercially available. Their earliest CD machines came with one of two different sampler compilations each containing a DS track along with other music selected to suit a variety of tastes (mainly classical). I still have my copy somewhere.
    When BIA was released it became the flagship for the CD revolution.
    Strangely, there has never been a DS boxset (just greatest hits compilations) and ironically to this day there are a handful of early DS single B-sides that have never been officially released on CD!
    I have a re-release of the first album on CD and it clearly is improved, even though the first release wasn’t bad. Not sure if this was just remastered, or remixed and remaster.
    On the verge of indecision
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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by r2daft2 View Post
    When BIA was released it became the flagship for the CD revolution.
    Strangely, there has never been a DS boxset (just greatest hits compilations) and ironically to this day there are a handful of early DS single B-sides that have never been officially released on CD!
    There's also a few Dire Straits songs that have never been released, period. For instance, there was a song called Making Movies, apparently recorded during the sessions for teh Making Movies album, but got left off for whatever reason, and has never been issued anywhere.

    As for Brothers In Arms, yes, I remember everyone saying "If you have a CD player you must have Brothers In Arms", I guess because it was recorded digitally, so everyone reckoned it had the best sound or whatever, though there were other fine records that were recorded digitally too, Hawkwind's Levitation comes to mind.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    There's also a few Dire Straits songs that have never been released, period. For instance, there was a song called Making Movies, apparently recorded during the sessions for teh Making Movies album, but got left off for whatever reason, and has never been issued anywhere.

    As for Brothers In Arms, yes, I remember everyone saying "If you have a CD player you must have Brothers In Arms", I guess because it was recorded digitally, so everyone reckoned it had the best sound or whatever, though there were other fine records that were recorded digitally too, Hawkwind's Levitation comes to mind.
    In retrospect, IMO the industry rushed too early to do digital recording. For some cases, like PG Live which was the first live digital recording with very special equipment, it really wasnít until the late 80s or early 90ís, that ADCs were worth it. High speed analog tape recording is still the bar and bands should have recorded the individual channels in analog. Noise is not the problem. Noise actually helps analog to digital conversion. Noise helps the ear to resolve fine details. Too much noise is bad, but a little noise is good. By the 90ís ADC was advanced. Some of the sh!tiest CDs ever made were made in the early 80s. Why, Iím not sure but they were. Some of my CDs bought around 84 werenít bad but they were missing something which was likely due to the brick wall analog filtering needed before the conversion to digital. Should have kept the masters analog, mixes and individual channels.
    On the verge of indecision
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  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    For some cases, like PG Live which was the first live digital recording with very special equipment,.
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I assume "PG Live" is Peter Gabriel Live? There was something like 12 years of digital recording already before that record was made.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I assume "PG Live" is Peter Gabriel Live? There was something like 12 years of digital recording already before that record was made.
    Ok, fair. I do know that the mobile digital recording used on Peter Gabriel Live was unique and a first. PG had a mobile recording system located near his home in the early 80s. The recorder was the use of Sony Super Beta vcrs to record the digital signal, but I’m not sure it was binary data, but could have been pulse amplitude samples similar to Laserdisc, which is sampled. Digital recording of classical music had been around for awhile, but may not a touring mobile system like Gabriel. Apparently, Gabriel’s Security recording was a mix of analog vocals and digital for instruments. PG live was a mix of concert and studio recording. It was all quite experimental for PG, and not surprising since PG’s father was an electrical engineer.
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  10. #35
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    Wasn't the Flim & the BBs the first digital recording? Or was is Ry Cooder?
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Wasn't the Flim & the BBs the first digital recording? Or was is Ry Cooder?
    I thought it was the first True Myth album?
    He did not know that the sword he'd hold, would turn his priceless empire into fool's gold...

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    As for Brothers In Arms, yes, I remember everyone saying "If you have a CD player you must have Brothers In Arms", I guess because it was recorded digitally, so everyone reckoned it had the best sound or whatever.
    true. My brother use to wow people with his sound system played at loud levels using Money For Nothing. The other song he was found of demoing was Phil Collins' In The Air Tonight. The system? Bose 901s and Cerwin Vega D9s paired to a 100wpc Onkyo receiver and a Sharp CD player 😄 Hey, it was the '80s.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I assume "PG Live" is Peter Gabriel Live? There was something like 12 years of digital recording already before that record was made.
    September 5, 1982: Peter Gabriel releases his fourth studio album (titled Security in North America and Peter Gabriel IV elsewhere).[49] When released on CD in October 1984 it becomes the first full-digital DDD release. It was recorded on Sony's Mobile One digital studio[50] and mixed with a Sony PCM-1610
    On the verge of indecision
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Wasn't the Flim & the BBs the first digital recording? Or was is Ry Cooder?
    January 1971: Using NHK's experimental PCM recording system, Dr. Takeaki Anazawa, an engineer at Denon, records the world's first commercial digital recordings, The World Of Stomu Yamash'ta 1 & 2 by Stomu Yamash'ta (January 11, 1971)[3] and Something by Steve Marcus & Jiro Inagaki (January 25, 1971). Both have to be recorded live, without edits. Marcus is released first (in February 1972), making it the first released digital recording. On January 27 Yamash'ta records Metempsychosis in the Nippon Columbia studio, Tokyo, with percussion and a brass section.
    On the verge of indecision
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  15. #40
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    History of Digital Recording:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_recording
    On the verge of indecision
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  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by UnderAGlassMoon View Post
    For me, Love Over Gold is their best, though they all have some great songs. Love Over Gold has the epic Telegraph Road, Private Investigations and the upbeat Industrial Disease. The other two tracks, Love over Gold and It Never Rains also hold up pretty well.
    Iím a huge fan of LoG...probably my fave DS album, alongside On Every Street.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderAGlassMoon View Post
    Like I said though, all of their releases have some good to great tunes, even the more commercial Brothers In Arms and On Every Street. Making Movies has my favorite song by them, Romeo and Juliet.
    I donít think of On Every Street as being a commercial album (whatever that is). I thought it was a ballsy move for Knopfler not to follow up Brothers in Arms with another hit-laden record. I believe it did well but nowhere near itís predecessor. It was the beginning of Knopflerís move towards a more countrified sound...live, that tour was amazing, with Paul Franklin on pedal steel and Phil Palmer on second guitar. Yes, there were a couple of radio friendly songs on the record, but most of it was, IMO, a return to form in terms of songwriting (especially the lyrics, which had become too simple, I thought, on Brothers in Arms, though that albumís title track still gives me shivers), and I loved the directional shift.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderAGlassMoon View Post
    Their two live albums, Alchemy: Dire Straits Live and On The Night are pretty damn good as well. I saw them live in New Zealand in '91 and they were fantastic.
    I prefer On the Night (the video is a longer, full set so is better than the CD I thought). Alchemy is good, it would have been better with a different drummer. Terry Williamsí time was just not like Pick Withersí unshakable pulse. Chris Witten, on On The Night, is far, far better, at least IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderAGlassMoon View Post
    I haven't really heard much of Mark's solo output, but I've heard good things about it.
    I have it all. He doesnít break new ground, but like Richard Thompson, just continues to put out solid album after solid album. Was supposed to see him last summer but was ill so had to skip it, unfortunately. But I enjoy all his solo records. But especially his duo date with Emmylou Harris, and his more recent stuff.
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  17. #42
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    Found this and did not make a separate thread, thought it was kinda cool...


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