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Thread: Richard Palmer-James - his life after Supertramp

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    Richard Palmer-James - his life after Supertramp

    The way, I see it, is that he didn't follow Supertramp back in England, because his life was in Munich - where Supertramp was formed as Daddy.

    He played in a few groups (including Emergency) during the 70's, all based in Munich and I think I read somewhere that his lyrics to Wetton (for Crimson) were sent by post.

    Then he made Jack-Knife with Wetton in 79 (I suppose this was after UK folded)

    Anyone knows more?
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  2. #2
    Apparently he did a lot of very commercial session work for music you really donít want to hear.

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    ^^

    Yes he co wrote some (yery) well known POP Songs (at least they are well known in Germany)

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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Apparently he did a lot of very commercial session work for music you really don’t want to hear.
    lol

    I'd still want to listen to some more of Emergency - memory seems that I heard their last one some 10/15 years ago though the Mediatheque, but have no recollection whether he was on it or not.

    In the meantime, I just found he played with

    https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/gold-9
    and (under an alias)
    https://rateyourmusic.com/artist/munich


    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    ^^

    Yes he co wrote some (yery) well known POP Songs (at least they are well known in Germany)
    is that under his own name or an alias??

    co-wrote as authior (text-lyrics) or composer (music)??
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #5
    To be honest I donít know the details. My impression from interviews is that he played guitar but he probably did a bit of everything. But I wouldnít expect any of it to be like Emergency. Do you know Jack Knife ? I do, and itís really quite bad, especially for something Wetton recorded just after the 1st UK album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Do you know Jack Knife ? I do, and it’s really quite bad, especially for something Wetton recorded just after the 1st UK album.
    Yeah, I've heard it once a long time ago and can't rememvber what I thought about it... but nothing good probably , or else I would remember it.

    But who's the main culprit? JW or RPJ?

    ==========

    and about his lyric writing sent though the post?? Can you add something on this?
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  7. #7
    Supposedly Jack Knife was a revival of the band Wetton and Palmer-James had with John Hutcherson in thť late 60s, playing some of the same songs - but with a disco-type rhythm section.

    The writing procedure for KC is well detailed in Sidís book.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Apparently he did a lot of very commercial session work for music you really donít want to hear.
    A lot of the German and French musicians did that. Some of us here might be surprised by some of the records the musicians from bands like Heldon, Magma, Triumvirate, etc played on.
    Yes he co wrote some (yery) well known POP Songs (at least they are well known in Germany)
    According to Wikipedia, apart from his work with Supertramp and King Crimson, he's best known for writing the lyrics to a song called (I'll Never Be) Maria Magdalena, which was a hit in 1985 by Sandra Ann Lauer (known professional by the mononym Sandra).

    Discogs lists 623 individual credits for "writing and arrangement". Quite a few of these are King Crimson related (thanks to Chuckles' archival program), as well as any number of Now That's What I Call Music or K-Tel style various artist compilations, so the actual number of songs is far lower. I see the names Haddaway, Sandra, Jackie Chan (yes, apparently that Jackie Chan), Dalida (French singer), Eruption, La Bionda, Herman Finkers, Brigitte Krandorp, Sarah Brightman, Donna Summer (a song called Shout It Out), Gepy & Gepy, D.D Sound, Moti Special, Atlantis 2000 (Eurovision 1990 entrant), Hep Sars, Zara, Freiheit, and something called Fancy. I stopped after 11 pages, there's another 14.

    Given how many of these appear on the above cited various artists compilations, I'm guessing he probably lives comfortably off his publishing royalties. Same goes for Peter Sinfield, he wrote some pretty big hits during the 80's and 90's.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 02-11-2020 at 12:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    A lot of the German and French musicians did that. Some of us here might be surprised by some of the records the musicians from bands like Heldon, Magma, Triumvirate, etc played on.

    According to Wikipedia, apart from his work with Supertramp and King Crimson, he's best known for writing the lyrics to a song called (I'll Never Be) Maria Magdalena, which was a hit in 1985 by Sandra Ann Lauer (known professional by the mononym Sandra).
    why didn't I think of this ?? wall.gif

    Yeah, it's always amusing to see Jannick Top listed in cruddy french pop albums.
    They needed to put food on the table.
    After all, Jimmy Page recorded for Johnny Haliday in the 60's,

    Discogs lists 623 individual credits for "writing and arrangement". Quite a few of these are King Crimson related (thanks to Chuckles' archival program), as well as any number of Now That's What I Call Music or K-Tel style various artist compilations, so the actual number of songs is far lower. I see the names Haddaway, Sandra, Jackie Chan (yes, apparently that Jackie Chan), Dalida (French singer), Eruption, La Bionda, Herman Finkers, Brigitte Krandorp, Sarah Brightman, Donna Summer (a song called Shout It Out), Gepy & Gepy, D.D Sound, Moti Special, Atlantis 2000 (Eurovision 1990 entrant), Hep Sars, Zara, Freiheit, and something called Fancy. I stopped after 11 pages, there's another 14.

    Given how many of these appear on the above cited various artists compilations, I'm guessing he probably lives comfortably off his publishing royalties. Same goes for Peter Sinfield, he wrote some pretty big hits during the 80's and 90's.
    I did try to look in Discogs, but can't figure out how to search for writing credits.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post

    Given how many of these appear on the above cited various artists compilations, I'm guessing he probably lives comfortably off his publishing royalties. Same goes for Peter Sinfield, he wrote some pretty big hits during the 80's and 90's.
    Sinfield even has a couple of Novellos but not for anything that I would entertain listening to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    is that under his own name or an alias??

    co-wrote as authior (text-lyrics) or composer (music)??
    Sorry don't really know. I guess he was involved more on the lyrics side.
    Although a song like La Bionda's (Italy) "One for me, one for you" hardly
    doesn't have more text than the title.

    I think he was somewho involved with Producer Michael Cretu who apart from
    having many hits on his own was also the Producer of many other of the Artists
    listed. (e.g. Sandra is his wife)

  12. #12
    I confess: I have the Jack-Knife-LP and played it a couple of times. Not brilliant, but it's always fine to hear John Wetton. I had one other excuse: I was completing my U.K.-family-tree.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    Sorry don't really know. I guess he was involved more on the lyrics side.
    Although a song like La Bionda's (Italy) "One for me, one for you" hardly
    doesn't have more text than the title.

    I think he was somewho involved with Producer Michael Cretu who apart from
    having many hits on his own was also the Producer of many other of the Artists
    listed. (e.g. Sandra is his wife)
    Well if it was for texts-lyrics, one would suppose a certain mastery of the german language - or maybe a ggood translator (his german wife, maybe , but this is an extrapolation, cos I have no idea if he was or not)

    I just fell upon this



    clearly not Fripp on guitar, but this could be Crimson-worthy
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Well if it was for texts-lyrics, one would suppose a certain mastery of the german language - or maybe a ggood translator (his german wife, maybe , but this is an extrapolation, cos I have no idea if he was or not)
    Rather easy task as all those POP Songs where sung in English

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I just fell upon this

    Cool, never heard that one before. I have to believe it would have at least been considered for a Red follow-up had KC continued.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Yeah, it's always amusing to see Jannick Top listed in cruddy french pop albums.
    They needed to put food on the table.
    After all, Jimmy Page recorded for Johnny Haliday in the 60's,
    Jannick's played with all kinds of people, from Johnny Haliday to the Eurythmics to Celine Dion! The thing that find intriguing about the Halliday connection is, Mick Jones, who was later in Spooky Tooth and Foreigner, also worked with Halliday. So there's like one degree of separation between Magma and Foreigner, which I find absolutely mind-boggling.

    But yeah, if you saw the full CV on some of those guys, not just Top, there's a whole lot of pop, Euro disco, schlager, chanson, etc.

    Oh, and let's not forget that Stella Vander began her singing career as a teenage chanteuse. Witness:



    I did try to look in Discogs, but can't figure out how to search for writing credits.
    In the menu on the left, there's a listing for "writing and arranging". Click on that and you'll get all the stuff where the given name appears in the byline, though like I said, in the case of someone like Palmer-James, you get a lot of various artists compilations, e.g. "Eurovision Favorites" or "Italo-Disco Gold" etc.

    Sinfield even has a couple of Novellos but not for anything that I would entertain listening to.
    One was recorded by Leo Sayer, and the other was recorded by Celine Dion. That tells you everything you need to know right there. Well, apart from the fact that Celine Dion track was co-produced by Aldo Nova.

    Sorry don't really know. I guess he was involved more on the lyrics side.
    Although a song like La Bionda's (Italy) "One for me, one for you" hardly
    doesn't have more text than the title.
    Kinda like Silver Convention's Fly Robin Fly, huh? That song has something like six words in it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    I just fell upon this



    clearly not Fripp on guitar, but this could be Crimson-worthy
    I guess you've already figured out this track can be found on Monkey Business 1972 - 1997.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    So there's like one degree of separation between Magma and Foreigner, which I find absolutely mind-boggling.
    That's how I felt when I realized there was zero degrees of separation between Foreigner and Crimson!

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    just go to wikileaks......

    Supertramp

    1970 : Supertramp
    2002 : Slow-Motion : One of his compositions, "Goldrush", is featured here.

    Emergency

    1973 : Get Out To The Country

    King Crimson

    1973 : Larks' Tongues in Aspic
    1974 : Starless & Bible Black
    1974 : Red

    D.D.Sound

    1977 : Disco Delivery - lyricist on all four albums
    1977 : 1-2-3-4... Gimme Some More!
    1978 : Cafť
    1979 : The Hootchie Coochie

    Munich

    1979 : Sideshow/Wednesday - Single - The song "Sideshow" was written by Palmer-James & Hermann Weindorf.

    Jack Knife

    1979 : I wish you would - With John Wetton.

    Pan Demonium

    1979 : Start the Fire - co-composer of two songs: "Walking on Air" and "Touch Me"[7]

    Eruption

    1983 : Our Way - co-composer of two songs: "Big Bang" and "In 1000 years"[8]

    John Wetton

    1998 : Arkangel - With Robert Fripp, Steve Hackett, etc.
    2011 : Raised in captivity - The song "The Devil and the Opera House" was co-written by Palmer-James, John Wetton & Billy Sherwood.

    John Wetton & Richard Palmer-James

    1998 : Monkey Business 1972 - 1997
    2014 : Jack-Knife / Monkey Business 1972 - 1997

    Richard Palmer-James

    2016 : Takeaway

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    But yeah, if you saw the full CV on some of those guys, not just Top, there's a whole lot of pop, Euro disco, schlager, chanson, etc.

    In the menu on the left, there's a listing for "writing and arranging". Click on that and you'll get all the stuff where the given name appears in the byline, though like I said, in the case of someone like Palmer-James, you get a lot of various artists compilations, e.g. "Eurovision Favorites" or "Italo-Disco Gold" etc.
    kind of ruins the mythof our prog heroes, doesn't it?

    Thanks for the Discogs tip, I'll try that ASAP

    Quote Originally Posted by interbellum View Post
    I guess you've already figured out this track can be found on Monkey Business 1972 - 1997.
    yup, looks like Monkeys should be my business

    Quote Originally Posted by BravadoNJ View Post
    just go to wikileaks......
    Thx,
    Yeah, I'd never thought there would be a wiki page for RPJ
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    he's best known for writing the lyrics to a song called (I'll Never Be) Maria Magdalena, which was a hit in 1985 by Sandra Ann Lauer (known professional by the mononym Sandra).
    A ubiquitous European schlager in the mid-80s, and absolutely horrifyingly terrible on all accounts. There were some 20+ examples of female singers popping up in the wake of Madonna's breakthrough who all wanted to capitalize on the latter's success by naming themselves Sinitta, Spagna, Sabrina (Italian with big breasts) etc. and attempting to reproduce the very same personae to boot. 1985 was one of the worst years of my already pretty sad existence, and "Maria Magdalena" brings back a nightmare of incredibly squeamish proportions, extreme terror notwithstanding. Glad to see that "prog" had something to do with it, seeing as the decade also brought about Asia, GTR and other such greatness.

    I particularly recall Sandra jumping around in the video to that hit nipping at a cigarillo together with a cuppa fab gayboy dancers. Fantastic.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    A ubiquitous European schlager in the mid-80s, and absolutely horrifyingly terrible on all accounts. There were some 20+ examples of female singers popping up in the wake of Madonna's breakthrough who all wanted to capitalize on the latter's success by naming themselves Sinitta, Spagna, Sabrina (Italian with big breasts) etc. and attempting to reproduce the very same personae to boot. 1985 was one of the worst years of my already pretty sad existence, and "Maria Magdalena" brings back a nightmare of incredibly squeamish proportions, extreme terror notwithstanding. Glad to see that "prog" had something to do with it, seeing as the decade also brought about Asia, GTR and other such greatness.

    I particularly recall Sandra jumping around in the video to that hit nipping at a cigarillo together with a cuppa fab gayboy dancers. Fantastic.
    Painful memories. In particular a song called Life is Life by some Austrian dorks. And Modern Talking. Yikes.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    kind of ruins the mythof our prog heroes, doesn't it?
    That's how I felt when I realized there was zero degrees of separation between Foreigner and Crimson!
    There's only one degree of separation between Kiss and King Crimson, also! Steve Farris, the guitarist from Mr. Mister, the band Pat Mastelleto was in before King Crimson, was one of the parade of session guitarists who played, uncredited, on Creatures Of The Night.

    A ubiquitous European schlager in the mid-80s, and absolutely horrifyingly terrible on all accounts. There were some 20+ examples of female singers popping up in the wake of Madonna's breakthrough who all wanted to capitalize on the latter's success by naming themselves Sinitta, Spagna, Sabrina (Italian with big breasts) etc.
    Singers with mononymic professional names predate Madonna, by at least a decade. Monaco's 1973 Euorvision entry was sung by a singer who was known simply as Marie (full name: Marie-France Dufour), as one example. I believe Stella Vander was known simply as Stella during her teenage chanteuse days.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Singers with mononymic professional names predate Madonna, by at least a decade.
    Of which I am aware, but this specifically concerned that particular bolk of singstresses who did indeed follow after Madonna and played on her references to biblical/religious tropes and stuff.

    For instance, there was a highly obese dwarf here in Norway by the professional name of Magnoma who merged Magma and Madonna into an absolutely irresistible stew of girl-soul called geuhl-zeuhl, in which she/he was joined on bongo drum by none other than Biff Bumford. When ol' Biff hit his stiff it took a whiff off the cliff of dose riffs.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    There's only one degree of separation between Kiss and King Crimson, also! Steve Farris, the guitarist from Mr. Mister, the band Pat Mastelleto was in before King Crimson, was one of the parade of session guitarists who played, uncredited, on Creatures Of The Night.
    That's awesome!

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