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Thread: RIP Lyle Mays

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by proggy_jazzer View Post
    ^^^
    Yes! And the way it resolves perfectly into Ozark, which is just a piano tour de force...

    I guess I'll put it on again!
    Yeah, that is a great transition into Ozark. That's a wonderful tune with some wicked piano.


    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Wow, I completely missed this one somehow. Listening to the whole thing on Apple Music now.

    Thanks Robert!

  2. #52

  3. #53
    Loved that guy.

    Sad indeed.
    And if there were a god, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence - Russell

  4. #54
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  5. #55
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    Cool, Lyle Mays mathematician and musician

    Art is parasitic on life, just as criticism is parasitic on art.
    Harry S Truman

  6. #56
    Member Gerhard's Avatar
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    Further reflections from Pat Metheny (copied from his Facebook page)

    As a few days have passed here, I am getting so many requests to comment on Lyle’s passing. Over the past hours, in response, I took a few moments to further reflect….

    There was a valuable lesson I learned early on from my most important mentor, Gary Burton; when you start a group, you have an obligation to choose the best musicians you can possibly find. And then, if you are lucky, once you have great people in place, you have an even more important obligation; to create an environment for them to do their very best.

    The mandate of the bandleader as I understood it from Gary, (and I believe he understood it from Stan Getz who got it from —… who got it from —…ad infinitum) was to offer the most talented players every opportunity to develop the things that they are most interested to the highest degree possible under your auspices; to create a platform that intersects with what your goals are as a leader, but also a zone that provides a world open to exploration and expansion for everyone. When the moment comes that that intersection is no longer in sight for either side of the equation, that is when it is time to make a change.

    With Lyle, as with Steve Rodby, that moment never came. There was always plenty to talk about. In fact, it seemed infinite.

    My initial attraction to Lyle’s talent came first and foremost by way of his sensational abilities as a piano player. And I noticed from the first time I heard him that his playing reflected a deep and natural sense of orchestration. From there, things naturally led to an unmatched ability to do a kind of on-the-spot arranging/orchestration that was unprecedented - only Joe Zawinul had explored that aspect of small group playing in similar ways that provided inspiration. As the mandate of what the group was to be naturally and quite organically embraced the emerging musical instrument technology of the times, a new kind of sound became possible. Importantly, Lyle also carried a deep awareness of guitar - he was actually a very good guitar player, thanks to his dad, who also played. But he had so many skills and interests that paralleled mine, endless possibilities ensued.

    Between the two of us, with Steve Rodby often as our essential and often unheralded guide, there was always a shared focus on the destination of music itself, and what an idea might become. Whenever we were working on anything or playing together in any capacity, it was always about it (the music), not us (the musicians).

    I am so grateful for the time and music we shared together, and I am happy and proud that so much of it is well documented. People always ask if there might have been more. The answer is yes. The lifestyle of going out on the road night after night, for sometimes hundreds of nights at a time, is not for everyone and has real challenges - it is never easy for anyone and it is almost impossible to describe what it is really like. But, no matter what was happening in the day-to-day of it all, Lyle always gave it his all on the bandstand.

    We did a brief round of gigs a while back, and it was clear in every way that he had had enough of hotels, buses, and so forth. But we had talked about doing a part 2 of “Wichita” at some point, there was a really wacky almost indescribably odd project that came up a few years back (maybe someday I will talk about it in detail) and we both agreed it could be a fun thing for us to do together, but in the end it didn’t pan out. No doors were ever shut between us.

    I absolutely respected his privacy over all our time together, and it became a primary thing for me to protect that in recent years, as it will be going forward. As I wrote earlier. I will miss him with all my heart.

    In addition to everything else; Lyle, Steve, and I were friends for going on half a century, and together we shared many of the ups-and-downs of our lives together here on the planet, on and off the bandstand. I am most grateful for that above all.

    Thank you for all the amazing outreach at this difficult time. Steve, Aubrey, and I and his extended family appreciate the heartfelt condolences we are getting from around the world.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I'm listening to As Falls Wichita... this morning. The ending of that song always gets me. By the time it's over I always feel like I'm on the verge of tears, even going back to the very first time I heard it years ago. It's the final 4 minutes or so, something about those ascending chords...
    Same here. I'd also recommend his work on Close To Home (Mars), which was - I think - originally intended to be a companion piece to As Falls Wichita and has a similar feel. There's a studio version on his eponymous solo album, but the live versions are far more expansive - check out the recording from Norman OK on The PMG Companion Vol II, for example.

    Also... the way his solo on The First Circle builds to a crescendo, starting from a handful of delicate, tentative notes. And all in 22/8 as well. Simply transcendent.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000jw View Post

    Also... the way his solo on The First Circle builds to a crescendo, starting from a handful of delicate, tentative notes. And all in 22/8 as well. Simply transcendent.
    "First Circle" switched to a simpler 12/8 meter for the solo but I agree Mays played great solos on it.

  9. #59
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    It is fifteen below actual temp so this morning I am streaming the Alaskan Suite
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    way too young

    but I thought RIP threads were ok on the main board???

    Neil Peart RIP is still on the main board
    The criteria which determine if a RIP thread should be moved here were allways rather unclear but (IMO) Lyle Mays more than deserved staying on the main board. OK ,he wasn't really "prog" and (much) less know than Neil Peart but who cares ? A very sensitive artist and fantastic keyboard player with a very broad range of sounds and styles. I'm just listening to his (1986) self titled solo record and it's close to perfection. (The Alaskan Suite is wonderful). He'll be sadly missed.
    Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 1 Week Ago at 01:03 PM.

  11. #61
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    Loved Lyle Mays since the early 80s after hearing the Wichita Falls album, which to this day is my favorite Pat/Lyle project.

    Besides seeing many amazing PMG concerts thru the years , I also saw Lyles' jazz trio open for Michael Hedges in 93.
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post
    "First Circle" switched to a simpler 12/8 meter for the solo but I agree Mays played great solos on it.
    That's the thing I miss about the PMG. Back to back great solos by Pat and Lyle. There are so many examples on all the albums. And seeing them live many times it was just as good.

  13. #63
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    way too young

    but I thought RIP threads were ok on the main board???

    Neil Peart RIP is still on the main board
    I looked and the most recent RIP threads were in OT-Music & Arts, so I went with that. Shoot me.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    I looked and the most recent RIP threads were in OT-Music & Arts, so I went with that. Shoot me.
    Whatever, IMO if it is the passing of a Progressive artist then it belongs on the main board because inevitably the thread will be about progressive music. Obviously one could argue forever about the definition of “progressive” but the argument for a RIP thread would be no different than for any other subject.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerhard View Post
    Further reflections from Pat Metheny (copied from his Facebook page)

    As a few days have passed here, I am getting so many requests to comment on Lyle’s passing. Over the past hours, in response, I took a few moments to further reflect….

    There was a valuable lesson I learned early on from my most important mentor, Gary Burton; when you start a group, you have an obligation to choose the best musicians you can possibly find. And then, if you are lucky, once you have great people in place, you have an even more important obligation; to create an environment for them to do their very best.

    The mandate of the bandleader as I understood it from Gary, (and I believe he understood it from Stan Getz who got it from —… who got it from —…ad infinitum) was to offer the most talented players every opportunity to develop the things that they are most interested to the highest degree possible under your auspices; to create a platform that intersects with what your goals are as a leader, but also a zone that provides a world open to exploration and expansion for everyone. When the moment comes that that intersection is no longer in sight for either side of the equation, that is when it is time to make a change.

    With Lyle, as with Steve Rodby, that moment never came. There was always plenty to talk about. In fact, it seemed infinite.

    My initial attraction to Lyle’s talent came first and foremost by way of his sensational abilities as a piano player. And I noticed from the first time I heard him that his playing reflected a deep and natural sense of orchestration. From there, things naturally led to an unmatched ability to do a kind of on-the-spot arranging/orchestration that was unprecedented - only Joe Zawinul had explored that aspect of small group playing in similar ways that provided inspiration. As the mandate of what the group was to be naturally and quite organically embraced the emerging musical instrument technology of the times, a new kind of sound became possible. Importantly, Lyle also carried a deep awareness of guitar - he was actually a very good guitar player, thanks to his dad, who also played. But he had so many skills and interests that paralleled mine, endless possibilities ensued.

    Between the two of us, with Steve Rodby often as our essential and often unheralded guide, there was always a shared focus on the destination of music itself, and what an idea might become. Whenever we were working on anything or playing together in any capacity, it was always about it (the music), not us (the musicians).

    I am so grateful for the time and music we shared together, and I am happy and proud that so much of it is well documented. People always ask if there might have been more. The answer is yes. The lifestyle of going out on the road night after night, for sometimes hundreds of nights at a time, is not for everyone and has real challenges - it is never easy for anyone and it is almost impossible to describe what it is really like. But, no matter what was happening in the day-to-day of it all, Lyle always gave it his all on the bandstand.

    We did a brief round of gigs a while back, and it was clear in every way that he had had enough of hotels, buses, and so forth. But we had talked about doing a part 2 of “Wichita” at some point, there was a really wacky almost indescribably odd project that came up a few years back (maybe someday I will talk about it in detail) and we both agreed it could be a fun thing for us to do together, but in the end it didn’t pan out. No doors were ever shut between us.

    I absolutely respected his privacy over all our time together, and it became a primary thing for me to protect that in recent years, as it will be going forward. As I wrote earlier. I will miss him with all my heart.

    In addition to everything else; Lyle, Steve, and I were friends for going on half a century, and together we shared many of the ups-and-downs of our lives together here on the planet, on and off the bandstand. I am most grateful for that above all.

    Thank you for all the amazing outreach at this difficult time. Steve, Aubrey, and I and his extended family appreciate the heartfelt condolences we are getting from around the world.
    Dang!
    I often think I understand how great of a musician and a human Pat is, but he almost always manages to take it to another level when I read something new from him. This is such a lovely statement and helps illuminate Pat's wisdom and especially, the very special relationship Lyle had with other musicians.

  16. #66
    Steve Rodby's FB post about Mays also called him "an intensely private person." I think his friends just don't think he would have wanted the world to know about his health struggles.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotron View Post
    Dang!
    I often think I understand how great of a musician and a human Pat is, but he almost always manages to take it to another level when I read something new from him. This is such a lovely statement and helps illuminate Pat's wisdom and especially, the very special relationship Lyle had with other musicians.
    I hadn't realised they'd done some more recent shows together. And what a pity we never got that Wichita 2!

    Metheny's always insightful. The comparison with Zawinul in terms of orchestration is on the money, IMHO. I also remember listening to a BBC programme on him. It got into singers (as opposed to players) that had influenced him and he instantly mentioned Karen Carpenter.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I hadn't realised they'd done some more recent shows together.
    The PMG did a run of shows as a quartet (Metheny, Mays, Rodby and Antonio Sanchez) in New Years week 2008/2009 in Japan, and a short tour of Europe in summer 2010, playing old PMG material. As far as I know those are the only performances Mays did with Metheny after The Way Up tour.

  19. #69
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    There is so much talent in this pic, that, no disrespect, if you removed Pat, you probably wouldn't notice. Egan, Mays, Gottlieb. Monster musicians.


  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    All this caginess about his COD leads me to believe it was alcohol- or drug-related?
    Or maybe he & his family were private people, a lot of people are. It doesn't matter really. I'm guessing since he died at the Adventist Hospital, perhaps it was heart related, which I think is one of their specialties. If he was a Seventh Day Adventist I doubt it was drugs or alcohol.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    All this caginess about his COD leads me to believe it was alcohol- or drug-related?
    Not everyone wants the world to know what their illnesses are. This isn’t being cagey; it’s just a simple matter of privacy and, as has already been said, Lyle was a very private person, and so likely wouldn’t want his business out there. I see nothing wrong or cagey with this, but as far as I know he absolutely had no issues with substance abuse, any more than Metheny did or does.

    Sorry, but Lyle’s passing is a particularly tough one for me as his music meant so much to me, and I don’t understand why it’s necessary, nor do I believe that this is the right time, to start postulating that he might have had substance abuse issues, simply because they won’t divulge the full nature of his illness.

    A lack of information is not necessarily an indication of anything other than a lack of information, after all, and we are entitled to no more and no less information than his family is prepared to provide. And suggesting substance abuse problems, as one example, only serves to unfairly tarnish his reputation and legacy, especially if there’s no real information to substantiate it.

    Sorry to rant, but it just seems like the wrong time to start making such suggestions, unless you’ve got hard evidence that they are true.
    Last edited by jkelman; 1 Week Ago at 04:29 PM.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Not everyone wants the world to know what their illnesses are. This isn’t being cagey; it’s just a simple matter of privacy and, as has already been said, Lyle was a very private person, and so likely wouldn’t want his business out there. I see nothing wrong or cagey with this, but as far as I know he absolutely had no issues with substance abuse, any more than Metheny did or does.

    Sorry, but Lyle’s passing is a particularly tough one for me as his music meant so much to me, and I don’t understand why it’s necessary, nor do I believe that this is the right time, to start postulating that he might have had substance abuse issues, simply because they won’t divulge the full nature of his illness.

    A lack of information is not necessarily an indication of anything other than a lack of information, after all, and we are entitled to no more and no less information than his family is prepared to provide. And suggesting substance abuse problems, as one example, only serves to unfairly tarnish his reputation and legacy, especially if there’s no real information to substantiate it.

    Sorry to rant, but it just seems like the wrong time to start making such suggestions, unless you’ve got hard evidence that they are true.
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  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Not everyone wants the world to know what their illnesses are. This isn’t being cagey; it’s just a simple matter of privacy and, as has already been said, Lyle was a very private person, and so likely wouldn’t want his business out there. I see nothing wrong or cagey with this, but as far as I know he absolutely had no issues with substance abuse, any more than Metheny did or does.

    Sorry, but Lyle’s passing is a particularly tough one for me as his music meant so much to me, and I don’t understand why it’s necessary, nor do I believe that this is the right time, to start postulating that he might have had substance abuse issues, simply because they won’t divulge the full nature of his illness.

    A lack of information is not necessarily an indication of anything other than a lack of information, after all, and we are entitled to no more and no less information than his family is prepared to provide. And suggesting substance abuse problems, as one example, only serves to unfairly tarnish his reputation and legacy, especially if there’s no real information to substantiate it.

    Sorry to rant, but it just seems like the wrong time to start making such suggestions, unless you’ve got hard evidence that they are true.
    I understand what you're saying, although I give rcarlberg the benefit of the doubt because I don't believe there was anything malicious behind it. I think when someone dies -- especially when it's someone famous or who has touched a lot of us, like Lyle Mays has -- we all have a desire to know what happened or why it happened. Even when it's none of our business.

    Never got the impression that Mays suffered from any substance abuse issues, from what little I know at least.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I understand what you're saying, although I give rcarlberg the benefit of the doubt because I don't believe there was anything malicious behind it. I think when someone dies -- especially when it's someone famous or who has touched a lot of us, like Lyle Mays has -- we all have a desire to know what happened or why it happened. Even when it's none of our business.

    Never got the impression that Mays suffered from any substance abuse issues, from what little I know at least.
    There plenty of habits which are not healthy, but not as bad as what is called substance abuse. Such as tobacco smoking and just not taking Vitamin D.
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  25. #75
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Mays seemed to want to keep his private life private. No explanation necessary.

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