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Thread: Three Members of Genesis Went to a Knicks Game — Speculations Abound

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    So you and Infandous have heard the same story. That doesn't mean the story isn't still BS. Even though you said you don't know if it's true, it's still hearsay, and to some here it's more than enough to reinforce the "Genesis vs. Hackett" narrative.
    I'll try to back my story up if I can. All I found in the meantime was a post on the Hoffmann forum with the exact same story, so it's out there.
    Having said that, those who believe Hackett was politely invited to the Milton Keynes gig from the start should substantiate their claim as well because there's no proof of anything one way or the other. I don't see why Infandous and I should be the only ones to have to show justification.

  2. #152
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    I've certainly heard the same story RE;Hackett/Six Of The Best (that he heard about it second hand...not the dad thing!). But I don't know that there was any malice intended considering Hackett was on tour. Both Gabriel and Rutherford guested at a Hackett gig a couple of years later.

    I don't like the way he was sidelined in that Together And Apart documentary; he deserved better. But I don't see the band as 'villains' at all. I greatly enjoy a lot of what they did post-Hackett, even though he happened to be on the albums I consider to be their very best.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I did get into ...Tunnel's Mouth. I could do without the blues track 'Still Waters'. I like blues, I like Hackett, but not at the same time! 'Nomads' and 'Emerald And Ash' were the highlights I thought. 'Tubehead' was a good instrumental.

    The last Hackett album which resonated with me was Beyond The Shrouded Horizon. Although even that one tailed off towards the end. Another rubbish blues number and I thought the long track 'Turn This Island Earth' was very poor.

    Haven't heard his last. I got off the bus. Same reverb-drenched production style, too many ploddy mid-tempo 'songs' and not enough instrumental work IMHO. He's picked up a wider audience which is great. However I'd hope they go back and listen to some of his 90s/00s albums, which IMHO were far better. To Watch The Storms, Darktown, Guitar Noir etc. And pretty obviously, his Charisma albums!
    Almost exactly my take as well. 'To Watch The Storms' was excellent. When I'm up for blues though I'll listen to the Marcus King band. He does have some gems here and there, but I agree I'd prefer more complex instrumental music and his beautiful side, what he really excels at.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by infandous View Post
    Yeah, I like Tunnel's Mouth pretty well, Shrouded Horizon was also pretty good but I agree with your summary. I just couldn't get in to Wolflight and haven't bothered with the most recent two. Haven't even heard them and probably won't.
    I blame the production as much as anything. The sound of his albums has gotten very samey.

    Even the material itself, well, he's done better. For instance, I'm quite fond of 2006's Wild Orchids, which gets little attention. Again a much better album than- say- Wolflight. 'Love Song To A Vampire' was the only thing on there I thought was anything special.

    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    Almost exactly my take as well. 'To Watch The Storms' was excellent. When I'm up for blues though I'll listen to the Marcus King band. He does have some gems here and there, but I agree I'd prefer more complex instrumental music and his beautiful side, what he really excels at.
    A lot of the 'progressive' guitar players (Fripp, Howe, Hackett etc.) deliberately eschewed standard blues playing in the 60s/70s. And they developed a fairly distinctive playing style. I don't really want to hear any of them playing blues now.
    Last edited by JJ88; 02-05-2020 at 12:34 PM.

  5. #155
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    I thought Beyond The Shrouded Horizon was marvellous, and although Wolflight has some good moments, I have to say I have barely bothered with the latest. As others have said, it is all becoming rather stale and in need of a refresh with something new.

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    Even Squackett still had that same sound, didn't it?

    ISTR either Hackett or Howe mentioned wanting to do something new together. An entirely instrumental album would be neat, rather than going for the now-dead AOR market like GTR did. (Though I find some merit in that album, many don't!)

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Having said that, those who believe Hackett was politely invited to the Milton Keynes gig from the start should substantiate their claim as well because there's no proof of anything one way or the other.
    *sigh*


    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    I don't see why Infandous and I should be the only ones to have to show justification.
    Mostly because that story is (or has been) told in a way that makes certain people look bad, and it's only fair to make sure it's accurate. IMO.

  8. #158
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    Listening to Wolflight again, another thing strikes me. Beyond '...Vampire', there's not much edge about it. Things like 'The Wheel's Turning' are very 'soft' IMHO. Is it just me?

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    Part of my problem with the narrative that "Steve was never invited to the 'Six of the Best' gig" is that if he truly was never asked to participate, then why would he even bother buying a flight and showing up, UNINVITED? If I found out second hand that all my college roommates were having a reunion party, but they never bothered to invite me, I certainly wouldn't crash the party. F' em I would say to their rudeness.

    When Page and Plant had a No Quarter tour, JPJ made it clear in the press that he wasn't happy that he hadn't been asked to join them and that they (Page and Plant) named that tour after one of his (JPJ's) songs.
    Brian Dennehy: "I'm now 80 and I'm just another actor and that's fine with me. I've had a hell of a ride," ... "I have a nice house. I haven't got a palace, a mansion, but a pretty nice, comfortable home. I've raised a bunch of kids and sent them all to school, and they're all doing well. All the people that are close to me are reasonably healthy and happy. Listen, that's as much as anybody can hope for in life."

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    The only thing I could find was that Genesis had offered to use their previous night's receipts (Genesis was wrapping up a tour) to pay off what Peter owed. But Peter refused and at the last minute, Peter's manager came up with a one-off reunion with Stuermer and Thompson thrown into the mix as Genesis was touring.

    And this from: https://www.loudersound.com/news/gen...cumentary-bias

    "Asked about 1982 concert Six Of The Best, the reunion with Gabriel to help him out of a financial problem, which only featured Hackett at the end, Rutherford says: 'We were in the middle of a Genesis tour. People forget the idea was very last-minute. Just making it happen in the first place was very tough.' "
    Brian Dennehy: "I'm now 80 and I'm just another actor and that's fine with me. I've had a hell of a ride," ... "I have a nice house. I haven't got a palace, a mansion, but a pretty nice, comfortable home. I've raised a bunch of kids and sent them all to school, and they're all doing well. All the people that are close to me are reasonably healthy and happy. Listen, that's as much as anybody can hope for in life."

  11. #161
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    Yes I don't think there was anything sinister there, given how hastily arranged it was.

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Yes I don't think there was anything sinister there, given how hastily arranged it was.
    Same here.

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Part of my problem with the narrative that "Steve was never invited to the 'Six of the Best' gig" is that if he truly was never asked to participate, then why would he even bother buying a flight and showing up, UNINVITED? If I found out second hand that all my college roommates were having a reunion party, but they never bothered to invite me, I certainly wouldn't crash the party. F' em I would say to their rudeness.

    When Page and Plant had a No Quarter tour, JPJ made it clear in the press that he wasn't happy that he hadn't been asked to join them and that they (Page and Plant) named that tour after one of his (JPJ's) songs.
    Jonesy turned up at at least one LZ reunion gig pointing out that he used to be one quarter of the band and damned if he wasn't going to take part, much to Plant's discomfort.

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    ^I have had the impression that JPJ and Plant were perhaps more 'colleagues' than friends per se. And even then they've seldom if ever worked together outside of those occasional (sometimes disastrous) Zeppelin reunions.

    ISTR Collins once described his relationship with Hackett similarly (in one of those web chat things he used to do with fans). But then again, there were never any 'issues' between them either.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    *sigh*




    Mostly because that story is (or has been) told in a way that makes certain people look bad, and it's only fair to make sure it's accurate. IMO.
    Right. Maybe I got a little carried away here and I apologize. I did not mean to support the theory of Saint Hackett against the Mean other Genesis members, although it looks like I did. All I meant was to back Infandous by mentioning I had heard the same story as him. After digging a little bit it seems there's nothing solid to substantiate it. I must have heard it on the old Genesis forum where there were many people "in the know" but then it may have been just a rumor even back then.

    It irked me a little bit to be asked to provide proof while those who claim Hackett was invited to Milton Keynes from the start have no more evidence of this than I have of "my" story. Yet "my" story is indeed more damaging to the other band members so I guess it makes sense.

    I see Hackett will soon release an autobiography which may finally shed some light on the whole episode. Genesis "expert" Alan Hewitt also wrote a biography of Hackett a few years ago which might be worth consulting.
    Not just a Genesis fanboy.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Right. Maybe I got a little carried away here and I apologize. I did not mean to support the theory of Saint Hackett against the Mean other Genesis members, although it looks like I did. All I meant was to back Infandous by mentioning I had heard the same story as him. After digging a little bit it seems there's nothing solid to substantiate it. I must have heard it on the old Genesis forum where there were many people "in the know" but then it may have been just a rumor even back then.

    It irked me a little bit to be asked to provide proof while those who claim Hackett was invited to Milton Keynes from the start have no more evidence of this than I have of "my" story. Yet "my" story is indeed more damaging to the other band members so I guess it makes sense.

    I see Hackett will soon release an autobiography which may finally shed some light on the whole episode. Genesis "expert" Alan Hewitt also wrote a biography of Hackett a few years ago which might be worth consulting.
    I'm sorry too. I should have been more understanding.

    Actually, I wasn't asking for proof that Hackett was invited from the very beginning, because I don't believe that he was either -- but more so due to the fact that it was very last-minute and not a planned reunion of some kind, and getting in touch with him while he was on tour someplace else logistically wasn't as easy as it is nowadays. Just lots of moving parts involved. What's frustrating is that it still plays into the narrative that some people like to perpetuate about Hackett always being intentionally snubbed or excluded by the other Genesis guys. They seem to forget that Hackett was the one who left the band, he wasn't kicked out. In fact, the other guys wanted him to stay! Oh well.

  17. #167
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    Why is AXS replaying the Genesis: Sum of the Parts video now Phil Collins: Going Back follows

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Why is AXS replaying the Genesis: Sum of the Parts video now Phil Collins: Going Back follows
    After watching this again I now conclude that Peter Gabriel ruined Genesis. It goes like this:

    1. Selling England By the Pound was the first Genesis album which really showed off the symphonic Prog instrumental excellence of the band. In a way, PG let Hackett show off, and Collins was much more present in vocals.

    2. Lamb was PG’s record and the instrumental goodness was there, but not like 1. The band was sick of PG’s authoritarian approach. After the breakup, PG tried to get Happy the Man as his band. HTM did not want the artistic reign that would have happened.

    3. Trick was an instrumental masterpiece as the band was freed from the reigns of PG.

    4. Collins influence started to contaminate on W&W, and he got involved with PG’s third album and PG takes the credit for noise gated drum sound with Collins. PG used it but it didn’t dominate like it did on PC records. In addition PC loved synth drums. PG influenced PC, which was the death of Genesis

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    I never listened to the whole We Can’t Dance record. Now seeing their poking fun at televangelists. Interesting that Joni Mitchell mocked them in a much more artistic manner a decade earlier. So PC ripped someone else off. The constant theme here is that Gspot couldn’t keep doing the same thing. But effectively that’s what they did for 1980 on.

  20. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    I never listened to the whole We Can’t Dance record. Now seeing their poking fun at televangelists.
    Almost 30 years later.


    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Interesting that Joni Mitchell mocked them in a much more artistic manner a decade earlier. So PC ripped someone else off.
    I know it's hard to tell via text, but are you being sarcastic?


    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    The constant theme here is that Gspot couldn’t keep doing the same thing. But effectively that’s what they did for 1980 on.
    ...What?

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Collins influence started to contaminate on W&W, and he got involved with PG’s third album and PG takes the credit for noise gated drum sound with Collins. PG used it but it didn’t dominate like it did on PC records.
    I recall Larry Fast's presentation at the first NEARFest, and if I recall correctly, he explained how HE came up with that "noise gated drum sound".

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    I recall Larry Fast's presentation at the first NEARFest, and if I recall correctly, he explained how HE came up with that "noise gated drum sound".
    Fast, Gabriel and Padgham.

  23. #173
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    It's not the kind of thing one should brag about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Almost 30 years later.




    I know it's hard to tell via text, but are you being sarcastic?




    ...What?
    Genesis claimed that they could not keep doing the same thing, attempting to explain the 80s-90s output they said was experimental. IMO, maybe experimental but in my mind they attempted to mimic the simplicity of PG and the new wave, and make more bucks. Simple sells, like Solsbury Hill.

  25. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Genesis claimed that they could not keep doing the same thing, attempting to explain the 80s-90s output they said was experimental. IMO, maybe experimental but in my mind they attempted to mimic the simplicity of PG and the new wave, and make more bucks. Simple sells, like Solsbury Hill.
    I don't see or hear how they were mimicking Peter Gabriel at all, seeing as their music was only simplistic in comparison to their earlier "proggy" stuff and not at all like what PG was doing.

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