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Thread: Three Members of Genesis Went to a Knicks Game — Speculations Abound

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Wow. Hit the nail on the head here.

    And to those of you who want "new" material, the above applies to that as well. Why does anyone think that...

    A) these guys in their 60s? 70s? will write something equal to their output when they were in their 20s and 30s?

    B) that it will be even remotely proggy? Witness Rutherford's output with Mike and The Mechanics, Collins's output and We Can't Dance..
    a: For the same reason that other bands in their 60s and 70s (Nektar, Crimson, VDGG) have continued doing excellent work.

    b: Mainly the presence of proggy material on every album ever made by Genesis, including a good 50 percent of We Can't Dance.

    Maybe they're considering making music together, maybe they aren't. If they do, I can see no reason why it wouldn't be the usual mix of real prog and well-crafted pop.

  2. #52
    What I think is really crazy is that three friends got together to hang out with each other. That almost never happens. I mean, who has the time to hang out with friends when we are all so busy speculating about what musicians will or will not do.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    B) that it will be even remotely proggy? Witness Rutherford's output with Mike and The Mechanics, Collins's output and We Can't Dance.
    Um, I actually do like all of Genesis' albums! Even Calling All Stations which is their weakest (to me) has a fair amount of really good songs on it.

  4. #54
    There was a Banks interview from last year where he expressed interest in perhaps doing another rock album. A new Banks solo album would hold more excitement from me than a new Genesis album.
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  5. #55
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    Good gosh, the negativism on this thread is astounding!
    I would gladly accept a reunion tour even if it's just the trio. Anything else would be a big bonus (new material, Hackett, Gabriel...). I'm just happy to be able to see my favorite bands while I still can & before they (we) all head the way of Neil Peart et al.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    Yes, I too regret the fact that they dismiss their earlier prog material as if it was just kid stuff, almost implying that it is not worthy of its true greatness.
    They don't but are critical of certain songs.

    In the box set interviews, Banks said he thought "Firth of Fifth" and "In Your Wardrobe" were excellent, but they over-worked "Epping Forest", and he didn't like "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight" much apart from the beginning and wishes "After the Ordeal" wasn't on the album. Collins said "Firth of Fifth" and "Cinema Show" were tour de forces and things they still played and that "Epping Forest" shouldn't have had 300 words per line. Banks and Rutherford like "Stagnation" the most off of Tresspass and neither think "White Mountain" was "as good as was yet to come"

    I think the three thought Lamb could have been better if they could just add a third record. Collins says Lamb was the height of his playing and "there was a lot of inventive stuff from everybody." Banks was critical of the overall story saying that it wasn't interesting despite some very good lyrics and that no Genesis album is perfect.

    Collins and Rutherford really like "On the Volcano", "Squank" and "Los Endos" from A Trick of the Tail but Banks said over the years he has come to prefer the soft songs with "Mad Man Moon" his favorite but also liked "Los Endos" live. Rutherford said its a special track that they were still playing. Banks said ATotT "works very well at several levels."

    Of course, Banks likes Wind and the Wuthering a lot but Rutherford said that after the excitement of A Trick of the Trail, Wind and Wuthering "the writing felt a little flatter to me" His favorites are "Afterglow" and "Blood on the Rooftops."
    Last edited by yamishogun; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:06 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me what an unrealistic and inflated view the prog crowd has of their share of the audience. The vast majority of people buying tickets to see a Genesis reunion tour want to see the 80s/90s hits they know and remember, and wouldn't have a clue who Steve Hackett is, or know anything from those 70s albums. They want the songs they still hear on classic rock radio, and that had those videos they liked when they were in high school. Not some weird, long, un-danceable song they've never heard.
    That needed to be said.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    They don't but are critical of certain songs.

    In the box set interviews, Banks said he thought "Firth of Fifth" and "In Your Wardrobe" were excellent, but they over-worked "Epping Forest", and he didn't like "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight" much apart from the beginning and wishes "After the Ordeal" wasn't on the album. Collins said "Firth of Fifth" and "Cinema Show" were tour de forces and things they still played and that "Epping Forest" shouldn't have had 300 words per line. Banks and Rutherford like "Stagnation" the most off of Tresspass and neither think "White Mountain" was "as good as was yet to come"

    I think the three thought Lamb could have been better if they could just add a third record. Collins says Lamb was the height of his playing and "there was a lot of inventive stuff from everybody." Banks was critical of the overall story saying that it wasn't interesting despite some very good lyrics and that no Genesis album is perfect.

    Collins and Rutherford really like "On the Volcano", "Squank" and "Los Endos" from A Trick of the Tail but Banks said over the years he has come to prefer the soft songs with "Mad Man Moon" his favorite but also liked "Los Endos" live. Rutherford said its a special track that they were still playing. Banks said ATotT "works very well at several levels."

    Of course, Banks likes Wind and the Wuthering a lot but Rutherford said that after the excitement of A Trick of the Trail, Wind and Wuthering "the writing felt a little flatter to me" His favorites are "Afterglow" and "Blood on the Rooftops."
    Thanks for that comprehensive encapsulation of the retro critiques of Genesis Members, vis a vis their earlier body of work. I have always had a dislike of artists being super harsh on their musical output, particularly when it is something that I held in such high regard. The Genesis members appear to pick out highs and lows, without degrading the whole library of earlier releases. They have a right to reflect of what they thought was well done and what they now look back upon as not their best. I can't imagine changing anything on SEBTP, TOTT, WAW or FoxTrot. I definitely am of the view that Lamb could have been better conceived and it had too much commercialism, but still a great release. So, in the end, no need to change anything retroactively. Trespass to Duke, what a run of greatness it was. After that, some occasionally excellent cuts mixed with more mediocre pop stuff.

  9. #59
    Member Joe F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    Collins and Rutherford really like "Squank"
    Don't we all.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    They don't but are critical of certain songs.
    I didn't think it was necessary to repeat your full post, but thank you for condensing the overall feelings of each member about particular musical pieces or songs.
    That was great, thank you.
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  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by SunRunner2 View Post
    I definitely am of the view that Lamb could have been better conceived and it had too much commercialism, but still a great release. So, in the end, no need to change anything retroactively.
    I hope it was clear that writing they wished they could add another two sides to Lamb was a joke. Banks said there was a really good single album in there but "what to cut?" Gabriel admitted that he went beyond the democracy that Genesis had become since the story was written by him.

    Banks was very happy with Foxtrot and Rutherford said he thought it was notably better than Nursery Crime. Rutherford thought "Watcher of the Skies" has a great intro with a really good rhythm but the lyrics that he and Banks wrote were "a bit sketchy" and that the song was "a little too busy." Collins says he was influenced by Yes, who he went to see a lot, at the time and wanted more complexity and musicianship in the band. Banks said they were writing better as a group by Foxtrot as each would bring "chunks to a song and then there was a filling out" process.

    Banks also said that he had built up a climax to "Supper's Ready" when Gabriel started singing over his big chords and thought: "Oh shit, there he goes again... but when I heard it back it didn't take very long this time and thought: 'That sounds fantastic'." He added that at 26 minutes, they thought "Supper's Ready" was too long to play in full later on. Rutherford thought "Get Them Out By Friday" had a great vocal and lyrics but too much was said. Collins agreed saying Gabriel came back with the lyrics and thought they were too dense. Banks said that it is his second favorite song on the album and that Foxtrot "is strong all the way through."

  12. #62
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    The Way We Sit Tour?


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    Three Members of Genesis Went to a Knicks Game — Speculations Abound

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    Art is parasitic on life, just as criticism is parasitic on art.
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    GENESIS The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was the album that broke Genesis. Did it also symbolise an entire genre’s strengths and ultimate over-reach?
    Art is parasitic on life, just as criticism is parasitic on art.
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  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    GENESIS The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway was the album that broke Genesis. Did it also symbolise an entire genre’s strengths and ultimate over-reach?
    No

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by olias View Post
    It makes sense, though. What would Hackett do on the post-1977 material?
    All of those parts had guitar lines on them. Rutherford stays on bass and lets Hackett interpret as he sees fit. It would really be the most interesting part of the tour for me. It would bring some spark and newness. I don't need to hear the CD again, I want to see some sense of creativity and this would draw huge attention.

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    As long as we're idly speculating/dreaming, I'd love to hear a quintet complete-album performance of ATTWT and Duke

    IF:
    • Rutherford and Banks were all-in
    • Hackett were on board to learn the material
    • Phil could still pull it off vocally
    • Chester Thompson were available/willing to take the drum chair, and finally
    • They toured smaller (say 2000-5000 seat) venues

    And yes, I know that each of those conditions is beyond unlikely or just plain impossible, but boy, would I pay cold hard cash to see that.
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  21. #71
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saucyjackstl View Post
    All of those parts had guitar lines on them. Rutherford stays on bass and lets Hackett interpret as he sees fit. It would really be the most interesting part of the tour for me. It would bring some spark and newness. I don't need to hear the CD again, I want to see some sense of creativity and this would draw huge attention.
    So, bring Hackett back (to tens of thousands of audience members saying 'Who?'), try to somehow make that band dynamic work again for the first time in over 40 years, and force him to play Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance - but he gets to bend some notes and add some tapping. Got it.
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    So, bring Hackett back (to tens of thousands of audience members saying 'Who?'), try to somehow make that band dynamic work again for the first time in over 40 years, and force him to play Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance - but he gets to bend some notes and add some tapping. Got it.
    Shock the monkey and have Rutherford and Collins perform on the Hackett SEBTP tour. Of course Collins only on vocals.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    So, bring Hackett back (to tens of thousands of audience members saying 'Who?'), try to somehow make that band dynamic work again for the first time in over 40 years, and force him to play Invisible Touch and We Can't Dance - but he gets to bend some notes and add some tapping. Got it.
    Hilarious...

    But by pointing out the fact that you can't "go home again", you are going to be accused of being "ageist" or "negative"...

    I could rent an apartment again with my buddies from college, but I can guarantee it won't be "just like the good ol' days".
    Man you guys take awfully seriously a bunch of pampered, spoiled twenty and thirty something year old jocks earning millions of dollars to play a game running up and down a field. Why do you care so much about these guys to the point of arguing with each other. Do you think they care an iota about you?

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  24. #74
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    But by pointing out the fact that you can't "go home again", you are going to be accused of being "ageist" or "negative"...
    I know. People don't like to hear the truth, and they don't like that their "Why doesn't the band do what I want them to do" scenarios are in fact ludicrous. So we get the "Wow, why is everyone so negative" posts. It isn't negativity, it's being realistic.
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  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Painter View Post
    Hilarious...

    But by pointing out the fact that you can't "go home again", you are going to be accused of being "ageist" or "negative"...

    I could rent an apartment again with my buddies from college, but I can guarantee it won't be "just like the good ol' days".
    Thinking that any new music by these guys won't be any good simply because they're not young anymore is not the same as saying "you can't go home again". It's more like ageism or negativity.

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