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Thread: Today's Dysfunctional Rock Band Report: Joey Kramer Sues Aerosmith

  1. #51
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Maybe they should just turn down Joe's amp and have Steve Hunter playing behind the amps?
    That's what I thought. Sort of like the Dennis Wilson electric piano in the early 70s when he couldn't play drums due to an injury.
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  2. #52
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Check this out from the later part of 2019

    Dream On & Joe Gets Angry With Steven As He Tries to Get Joe To Kiss Him & Steven Keeps Bumping Into him During Walk This Way & Joey Kramer Makes An Appearance and Speaks at the Final Bow , Aerosmith, The Theater at MGM National Harbor, Oxon Hill, Maryland; August 10th, 2019; Deuces Are Wild Tour; (Washington DC area); Final songs of the night

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Check this out from the later part of 2019
    Call me crazy, but I thought that was great, and pretty hilarious! Perry was much better here, and was actually doing a decent little solo when Steven tried to kiss him. I'd have been pissed too, but they kissed and made up at the end.

    I've seen Aerosmith several times, the last time being around the Pump tour, which I think I caught twice. After that album, the band sort of lost me, but they were absolutely on fire at the shows I saw in that period. That was 30 years ago. The fact they're able to still do anything, let alone play this well is sort of amazing. They give a good, high-energy show. Yeah, it's a little rough at times, but it's just rock and roll, and I think being there a lot of those imperfections that stick out on video wouldn't matter.

    If folks don't like Aerosmith, that's fine, I get that. But what do you really expect from them, and are these performances really that bad? At least they're the same guys, not a bunch of ersatz fill-in players.

    Bill

  4. #54
    All Things Must Pass spellbound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    If folks don't like Aerosmith, that's fine, I get that. But what do you really expect from them, and are these performances really that bad? At least they're the same guys, not a bunch of ersatz fill-in players.
    I've always admired that, except for the period 1979-1985, Aerosmith was always the same 5 guys. My criticism of them was their recent inability to get along with their long-time drummer, not their abilities as a crowd-pleasing rock band. I chose not to watch their Grammy appearance, or anyone else's. I am currently listening to a youtube audio from the concert I saw in 1975. I won't share it here, as the recording sound quality is awful. It sounded fine in the indoor arena forty five years ago. I think Aerosmith may have stepped up their game that night because the two opening acts were so very good: Status Quo and Frank Marino/Mahogany Rush. They did rock hard. Maybe they always did in those days. I only saw them the one time. Their setlist is online as:

    Walkin' the Dog
    S.O.S. (Too Bad)
    Somebody
    Sweet Emotion
    Lord of the Thighs
    Dream On
    Walk This Way
    No More No More
    Same Old Song and Dance
    The Train Kept A-Rollin'
    Big Ten Inch Record
    Toys in the Attic
    Mama Kin
    Last Child

    Status Quo setlist:

    Junior's Wailing
    I Saw the Light
    Backwater
    Just Take Me
    Little Lady
    Most of the Time
    Forty-Five Hundred Times
    Claudie
    Gerdundula
    Roll Over Lay Down
    Big Fat Mama
    Don't Waste My Time
    Roadhouse Blues

    Can't find the setlist for Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush that night, but they kicked ass. Not a bad show for one we decided to attend at the last minute. We didn't have anything better to do, and it only cost $4.50.

    I, personally, liked Aerosmith best for their first five albums. I wasn't too excited about anything other than a few songs after their "comeback" in 1985, although I don't blame them for wanting to have another go at it. They weren't awful, IMO, just not as good as they were in their prime. But who is? I have most of their albums anyway.

    Here's Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush from a TV appearance in 1975:

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  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    From what I heard about the band's reasons for ditching Dickey, it was a long time comin'. His drinking and temper were out of control. Warren didn't rejoin the band until Betts left - that says something right there. Not that Gregg was any kind of saint in the addictive behavior department but he did eventually get cleaned up, especially after that embarrassing award show appearance. Where's guitargeek, he'll know the details.
    Dickey was a mean SOB when he was high, the nicest guy when not. He ran after his wife with a knife. Also, his playing deteriorated at the time. Peaking (Reeking) At The Beacon was released to give Dickey money on his way out. Pattern Disruptive was a great album with Warren btw if you havenít heard it. I saw Dickey in 2012 with his son Duane and he sounded good. Sadly, now he can barely play. Huge respect to him for the years of recorded Allman Brothers music, especially the original six albums. Not easy to soldier on after Duane died.


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  6. #56
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapidfirerob View Post
    Dickey was a mean SOB when he was high, the nicest guy when not. He ran after his wife with a knife. Also, his playing deteriorated at the time. Peaking (Reeking) At The Beacon was released to give Dickey money on his way out. Pattern Disruptive was a great album with Warren btw if you haven’t heard it. I saw Dickey in 2012 with his son Duane and he sounded good. Sadly, now he can barely play. Huge respect to him for the years of recorded Allman Brothers music, especially the original six albums. Not easy to soldier on after Duane died.


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    Dicky wastn't just dumped, as you say. I think what's most relevant is how Gregg finally took the lead and shinned with Warren and Derek et al. I think Hittin' the Note stands tall with ANYTHING the band released. It's definitely one of my favourite ABB albums. I got massive enjoyment of seeing the ABB line up with Gregg leading for 3 nights in Boston 10 years ago. I remember each night vividly, although the Saturday night show is a bit more fuzzy because a U.S. citizen provided to a Canadian visitor.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I've seen Aerosmith several times, the last time being around the Pump tour, which I think I caught twice.



    Bill
    Correct me if I am remembering this wrong, but the "Pump" tour was when they played to the city rooftop backdrop where they had the name of each city as part of the stage production? If it was, the show that I saw was fantastic. As you say they were sober, on fire, and kicking ass. Much better then when I had seen them a few years earlier on the "Done With Mirrors" tour. Also, a very young Black Crowes were the opening act. We had no clue who they were before the show, but we sure as hell did after their performance.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    From what I heard about the band's reasons for ditching Dickey, it was a long time comin'. His drinking and temper were out of control. Warren didn't rejoin the band until Betts left - that says something right there. Not that Gregg was any kind of saint in the addictive behavior department but he did eventually get cleaned up, especially after that embarrassing award show appearance. Where's guitargeek, he'll know the details.
    (Lurch mode) You rang, Mr. Addams? (Lurch mode off)

    Ya know, I just spent an hour trying to figure out how to respond to this matter. I've never actually read any of the books on the band, so a lot of what I'm gonna say is just supposition and stuff I heard from unofficial sources. But this is my take on the split between Dickey and the Allmans:

    1. Dickey had a drinking problem. I get the impression that he was on and off the wagon quite a bit. The band had to actually finished the 1993 tour with fill in guitarists (one of whom, somehow, was Zakk Wylde...yeah, I don't understand that either). I think Dickey got himself into a situation where he had to go into rehab (possibly court ordered) and the band had to do the last few shows without him. I think he got him straightened out for a few years there, circa 94-97 or so. But I think the last couple years he had fallen off the wagon again, and the band was unhappy with his performances.

    2. As you point out, the guy also has/had quite a temper. Reportedly, when the band finally fired him in 2000 (via fax) he threw a fit and was smashing up furniture, etc, and the cops had to be called.

    3. I think the rest of the band was really starting to miss Warren, and they wanted him to come back, and Dickey didn't. It's worth noting that circa 1997-2000, everyone in teh band was seen jamming with Warren or Allen Woody, in one form or another, except Dickey. It was clear that the other guys, at least, didn't have an issue with Warren and Allen going off to do Gov't Mule full time. The initial rumor that went around when Warren and Allen left the band in 1997 was that the rest of the band was pissed that Gov't Mule had signed to the reactivated Capricorn Records (still being run by Phil Walden, the man who ripped the band off back in the 70's). But it was clear that Gregg, Jaimoe, and Butch weren't holding that against them. DIckey on the other hand...

    4. I remember Allen Woody making a comment that "Dickey has a bee in his bonnet about power trios, that go back to the early days". My take on that was maybe Dickey never quite got over Duane hijacking Berry away from The Second Coming for the power trio that he was supposed to be forming. For those who've never heard the story: Phil Walden originally was interested in a Hendrix or Cream style power trio, centered around Duane. It was only through various jam sessions, one of which ended (according to Butch Trucks) with Duane walking to the door of the rehearsal room, and saying "Any y'all who don't want to be in my band are gonna have to fight their way out", that band swelled to a sextet.

    But my impression is maybe Dickey has a thing about musicians he's working with going off and getting involved in projects that don't involve him. That may have been what happened between him and Warren. Maybe he didn't just "never got over Duane drafting Berry" but maybe he had similar issues with Dangerous Dan Toler (who had been in Great Southern and was brought into the 1978 model Allmans by Dickey) going off with Gregg when the Allmans fell apart the second time (note: Gregg also took Dangerous Dan's brother Frankie, who had also been in Great Southern and the Allmans).

    5. I think the rest of the band were sick of Dickey being too loud onstage. I remember Gregg saying in an late 90's interviewed one of the things he didn't like about the Allmans was "the guitarists are too loud". I also remember Jack Pearson's stated reason for leaving the Allmans (after playing with them in 97 and 98) was because they were too loud. So I suspect the real situation was Dickey playing with a cranked Marshall, I believe, and the rest of the band were thinking, "Uh, do you really have to be that loud?"

    So maybe between all that, the band just decided they'd had enough of Dickey. But like I said a lot of that's just my suppositions.
    This looks sorta the same as the whole fiasco with Bill Ward/Sabbath.
    Did we ever get a straight answer on why Bill wasn't involved in that last Sabbath album and tour? I remember at the time, the assumption was it had something to do with Sharon, but I forget what the answer was, something to the effect that it wasn't a contractual thing or whatever, Bill just chose to opt out for unspecified reasons.

  9. #59
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Tyler is still the same un-class act as ever, I see

    What's with Perry's reworked Fender: left-handed Strat body with a right-hand Tele neck rewired right-handded and trying to look likle Rory's axe? Trying to pull a Hendrix stunt??

    Quote Originally Posted by spellbound View Post
    Walkin' the Dog
    S.O.S. (Too Bad)
    Somebody
    Sweet Emotion
    Lord of the Thighs
    Dream On
    Walk This Way
    No More No More
    Same Old Song and Dance
    The Train Kept A-Rollin'
    Big Ten Inch Record
    Toys in the Attic
    Mama Kin
    Last Child

    I, personally, liked Aerosmith best for their first five albums. I wasn't too excited about anything other than a few songs after their "comeback" in 1985, although I don't blame them for wanting to have another go at it. They weren't awful, IMO, just not as good as they were in their prime. But who is? I have most of their albums anyway.
    the only time I saw Smith, they played something similar of a set, with a couple of DTL tracks in there (Sight For Sore Eyes was in there for sure, and DTL and K&Q maybe) and I'm not sure there were other tracks from their debut outside Dream On.

    and yes, I still appreciate that Smith remained +/- the same five throughout their career... Though I was never fall that familiar with the post-Ruts albums, I did appreciate the return of the Boston 5 for Mirrors & Vacations. I don't think R&HP was all that bad either, TBH; but I was outa there for good by that time

    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    Dicky wastn't just dumped, as you say. I think what's most relevant is how Gregg finally took the lead and shinned with Warren and Derek et al. I think Hittin' the Note stands tall with ANYTHING the band released. It's definitely one of my favourite ABB albums. I got massive enjoyment of seeing the ABB line up with Gregg leading for 3 nights in Boston 10 years ago. I remember each night vividly, although the Saturday night show is a bit more fuzzy because a U.S. citizen provided to a Canadian visitor.
    mmmhhh!!!!.... HTN was indeed a pleasant surprise, but I wouldn't place it in between the Duane era ABB. At most a good added pÓece sitting right next their classic albums, and certainly better than their B&S album (not my cuppa) for sure.
    Sorry, but post-Duane ABB is definitely not my tastes, when the copuntry rock took over from the Blues rock stuff.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Sorry, but post-Duane ABB is definitely not my tastes, when the country rock took over from the Blues rock stuff.
    Agree with you there but I got pelters for saying that in here a few years ago!

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Correct me if I am remembering this wrong, but the "Pump" tour was when they played to the city rooftop backdrop where they had the name of each city as part of the stage production? If it was, the show that I saw was fantastic. As you say they were sober, on fire, and kicking ass. Much better then when I had seen them a few years earlier on the "Done With Mirrors" tour. Also, a very young Black Crowes were the opening act. We had no clue who they were before the show, but we sure as hell did after their performance.
    That is correct, that was the Pump tour. We caught them in Springfield, MA in December 1989 and January 1990. I think Joan Jett opened one of those shows. I have no memory of the other opening act. Sadly it wasn't the Black Crowes, I'd have loved to have seen them in that period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    What's with Perry's reworked Fender: left-handed Strat body with a right-hand Tele neck rewired right-handded and trying to look likle Rory's axe? Trying to pull a Hendrix stunt??
    Yeah, odd piece. Not sure why he's doing this, though it has some interesting aspects like having the trem bar on the top instead of the bottom and leveraging the string retainer at the headstock for the bass strings. He gets a good sound out of it in his Walk this Way solo, not so much for Dream On where's it's a bit brittle.

    Bill

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    What's with Perry's reworked Fender: left-handed Strat body with a right-hand Tele neck rewired right-handded and trying to look likle Rory's axe? Trying to pull a Hendrix stunt??
    Joe Perry's been playing flipped Lefty Strats since the late 70's. But he's not the only one. I've seen Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Miller and a number of others have done it too.

    Fender has even built right handed guitars that were built around a left handed body and neck. The controls are where they normally are, below the strings, but the body and headstock have the silhouette of the left handed model. And Warmoth makes a body like that too, so presumably people are building "parts" guitars using that body style.

    As far as why you would do that, well, there's a couple answers. The obvious thing is you're copying Jimi Hendrix. When Joe Perry was asked about it in Guitar Player back in 1979, he said "Well, Hendrix did it, and you learn from the master".

    The other reason is that by switching the strings around, you change the tone of the guitar. By making the wound strings longer behind the nut, you give them a twangier tone. The unwound strings are shorter, and therefore have less tension and are easier to bend. And the strings pass over the bridge pickup differently too, with unwound strings now passing over the pickup further away from the bridge, so there's slightly less treble, and vice versa for the wound strings.


    Sorry, but post-Duane ABB is definitely not my tastes, when the copuntry (sic) rock took over from the Blues rock stuff.
    Well, then you're missing out on stuff like this:




    Ain't no "country rock" there.

  13. #63
    Member Guitarplyrjvb's Avatar
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    The latter day stuff with Warren Haynes is indeed great and shouldn't be missed.

  14. #64
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    mmmhhh!!!!.... HTN was indeed a pleasant surprise, but I wouldn't place it in between the Duane era ABB. At most a good added pÓece sitting right next their classic albums, and certainly better than their B&S album (not my cuppa) for sure.
    Sorry, but post-Duane ABB is definitely not my tastes, when the copuntry rock took over from the Blues rock stuff.
    I'm in a minority, I suspect, but HTN is one of my favourite ABB releases, ever! See the post above on Gregg led ABB albums - not all country. He'll, it was Dicky who brought the country influence in the band.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

  15. #65
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Joe Perry's been playing flipped Lefty Strats since the late 70's. But he's not the only one. I've seen Yngwie Malmsteen, Steve Miller and a number of others have done it too.

    Fender has even built right handed guitars that were built around a left handed body and neck. The controls are where they normally are, below the strings, but the body and headstock have the silhouette of the left handed model. And Warmoth makes a body like that too, so presumably people are building "parts" guitars using that body style.
    First time I'd seen that. or didn't pay attention.

    that sounds sick: the Hendrix-y looks
    You'd figure that Fender would have manufactured the tremolo-bar and control knobs above if that's the only advantage there was to it, because I can't see the jack placement being an advantage on top of the guitar, right where the arm is

    Well, then you're missing out on stuff like this:

    Ain't no "country rock" there.
    I figured you (or someone else) would be pointing out the long jammy pieces in their 90's albums (usually their one better track per studio albums)... But I was mainly talking about B&S until the mid-80's or so.

    I can live without them longer tracks allright. It's not like they attempted something new or revolutionized their sonics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    The latter day stuff with Warren Haynes is indeed great and shouldn't be missed.
    Ok, i'll give it another try once I got time. I know the 90's stuff doesn't suck right out, or else HTN would've also sucked.

    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I'm in a minority, I suspect, but HTN is one of my favourite ABB releases, ever! See the post above on Gregg led ABB albums - not all country. He'll, it was Dicky who brought the country influence in the band.
    yup, agreed that it was mostly Betts that brought in the country stuff.
    Last edited by Trane; 01-29-2020 at 01:11 PM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  16. #66
    I figured you (or someone else) would be pointing out the long jammy pieces in their 90's albums (usually their one better track per studio albums)... But I was mainly talking about B&S until the mid-80's or so.
    High Falls was on Win Lose Or Draw, the studio album that immediately followed Brothers And Sisters.

    I can live without them longer tracks allright.
    As far as I'm concerned, the longer tracks are the whoel point of the Allman Brothers Band. You take that away, and you have what? A bluesy roots rock band, albeit one with above average songwriting and guitarmanship.
    It's not like they attempted something new or revolutionized their sonics.
    Well, one could argue they did "attempt something new" in the early 80's, when they added the synths. One would also argue, though, that was probably more a move to "sound contemporary" that wasn't too successful.

    But so what if they didn't "attempt something new". They knew what they were good at and they stayed with it. And I think they knew what their audience wanted from them, and it wasn't "something new". And apart from those two records they made for Arista in the early 80's, they mostly stayed pretty consistent, in terms of quality.


    yup, agreed that it was mmosdtly Betts that brought in the country stuff.
    Well, that's kind of where he came from. He played western swing before he played rock music, so it makes sense that he'd bring that influence into the group. But he was also into jazz, Django Reinhardt type stuff. He was the guy responsible for a lot of the instrumental stuff, e.g. In Memory Of Elizabeth Reed, High Falls, True Gravity, Kind Of Bird, etc.

  17. #67
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I got an impressive live compilation of later day ABB from a fellow PE member. Damn, that band just smoked. Haynes and Trucks took it to heights not seen since Duane was alive.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  18. #68
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    so what if they didn't "attempt something new". They knew what they were good at and they stayed with it.
    Agreed.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarplyrjvb View Post
    The latter day stuff with Warren Haynes is indeed great and shouldn't be missed.
    Agreed, in fact, the final album "Hitting The Note" to me ranks right up there with the best things the band ever did.

  20. #70
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    I should've known you'd fight for ABB, the same way you do for The Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, the longer tracks are the whoel point of the Allman Brothers Band. You take that away, and you have what? A bluesy roots rock band, albeit one with above average songwriting and guitarmanship.
    You're right of course.
    90% of ABB's appeal to my neurones come from those long jammy tracks.
    It's just that it sounds "more of the same" of the Duane-era, but without Duane.
    So with limited shelfspace, I reduced the post-Duane ABB to the HTN album.
    Maybe it sounds too drastic to you, but I'll manage to live with that.
    And if the need to hear more Haynes-era ever scratches me, YT or my library system will remain my friends.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  21. #71
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Everybody is ragging the band for how they're treating him, but there may be two sides to the story.
    No doubt there are two sides. I admit, I just really don't like Aerosmith so I'm happy to slag them a bit. I was hearing their first 4 albums around the same time that I was discovering rock music in general and getting into Rush and Led Zep. Aerosmith really never resonated with me.
    Just sitting at home rocking back and forth and jealously caressing my invisible collection of theoretical assets.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    No doubt there are two sides. I admit, I just really don't like Aerosmith so I'm happy to slag them a bit. I was hearing their first 4 albums around the same time that I was discovering rock music in general and getting into Rush and Led Zep. Aerosmith really never resonated with me.
    Fair enough, but I'd suggest you're missing something with Toys in the Attic and Rocks, and the debut, which to me is a killer bluesy rock album and vastly underrated in their catalog. You can eschew anything else, but to me those three are as good as it gets for down and dirty rock and roll. I wasn't their biggest fan either at first, but I sort of came around eventually. It doesn't matter to me, but it does make me a little sad if you, or really anyone, can't rock out to some of that stuff. But then I don't care much for Rush pre 2112 or post Signals. So it goes.

    Bill

  23. #73
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    There's a live show from NYC in 1975 that is pretty killer (from the Toys tour). They're still hungry at that point.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  24. #74
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    Fair enough, but I'd suggest you're missing something with Toys in the Attic and Rocks, and the debut, which to me is a killer bluesy rock album and vastly underrated in their catalog. You can eschew anything else, but to me those three are as good as it gets for down and dirty rock and roll. I wasn't their biggest fan either at first, but I sort of came around eventually. It doesn't matter to me, but it does make me a little sad if you, or really anyone, can't rock out to some of that stuff. But then I don't care much for Rush pre 2112 or post Signals. So it goes.

    Bill
    I liked the first two the best. Not sure what it was about the other stuff that didn't do it for me. For what it's worth, I like to rock out to some other mediocre rock stuff that would probably cause many here to gag, lol.
    Just sitting at home rocking back and forth and jealously caressing my invisible collection of theoretical assets.

  25. #75
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    Back Where It All Begins is maybe my favorite ABB song. Favorite instrumental- Pegasus

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