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Thread: Genesis cd editions

  1. #1

    Genesis cd editions

    Can anyone please tell me which cd version of 70's era Genesis albums sounds best ?
    I know the remixes were criticized harshly as being abrasive and compressed

  2. #2
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    It may depend on the album with a few of them but I still like foxtrot, trespass and trick from the original releases.


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    Member TheH's Avatar
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    I would go for the original CD Releases fom the mid 80s (Virgin)

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    ^Best way to go by far. Pity about the butchered packaging on them, but then mine don't have the sleeves anyway (I found most of them second-hand but sleeveless for pennies)

    The 90s 'Definitive Edition Remasters' are also acceptable, with a few exceptions. Trespass for instance sounds far better in its 80s incarnation.

    Avoid the Nick Davis stereo remixes. In addition to how bad some of them sound, these were radical remixes IMHO, the vocals are pushed way to the fore and some songs have missing parts.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Can anyone please tell me which cd version of 70's era Genesis albums sounds best ?
    I know the remixes were criticized harshly as being abrasive and compressed
    Get the 1980's discs. Doesn't matter of they are UK or German Virgin or Charisma, or the USA Atlantic or Atco discs. They're all roughly the same. Don't get anything pressed after the 1980's.

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    Member Paul's Avatar
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    I agree with the recommendations for the 80s discs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    I agree with the recommendations for the 80s discs.
    I confirm, notably " manufactured by sanyo japan"
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  9. #9
    Yup. Pretty much original 80's editions across the board.

  10. #10
    I think the Nick Davis remixes are still worth hearing, as they provide a different experience. I don't view them as a replacement, but I'm happy they exist. Not everyone agrees though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I don't view them as a replacement
    The band do. I think that's the problem. I'd have a more benign view of them otherwise.

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    Amazing how awful the Nick Davis remixes/remasters sound awful for the most part (though Foxtrot sounds incredible IMO), but ALL of the 5.1 mixes are fantastic! I bought all of those box sets many years ago, knowing how bad and compressed most of the CD’s sound specifically for the 5.1 mixes....and so glad I did!!!!
    So much music....so little time....

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    The band do. I think that's the problem. I'd have a more benign view of them otherwise.
    Just because the other editions are out of print?

  14. #14
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    The Cropped Artwork - Charisma are the best.
    What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it brings forth a sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Just because the other editions are out of print?
    They've been out of print for well over ten years. You can't just say they're merely an 'alternative' when they become the default. It's a situation almost unprecedented in rock. Even a lot of Frank Zappa's albums are now available in their original mixes.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    They've been out of print for well over ten years. You can't just say they're merely an 'alternative' when they become the default. It's a situation almost unprecedented in rock. Even a lot of Frank Zappa's albums are now available in their original mixes.
    I wouldn't say it's almost unprecedented. With the Zappa example, the originals were out of print for several years before they were made available again. I wouldn't be surprised if the original Genesis mixes were re-released later down the line as well.

    Most Genesis fans already have the originals, and there is the second hand market, so it's not as if they've ceased to exist -- I've held on to all of my old Genesis CDs. So yeah, I do still consider them an alternative. The "Definitive Edition Remasters" were in circulation for a long time, and maybe the band/label figured that most of the folks who were going to buy them had already done so by the time the remixes came out.

    But I'm one of those supposedly rare people who doesn't hate the Nick Davis mixes. Plus, I'm beyond thrilled to have the entire Genesis catalog in 5.1 audio. *shrug*
    Last edited by aith01; 4 Days Ago at 04:22 AM.

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    ^I didn't have an issue with the 5.1 mixes. I enjoyed the interview/extra content as well. But those versions are also out of print.

    Andy Zax (who worked on various Rhino projects such as their Woodstock reissues) recently called Davis' remixes 'incompetent'. Ouch.

    https://twitter.com/andyzax/status/1206768264426086401

    I should add The Who to the 'hall of shame'. A fair amount of their albums are also only available in remixed form. Some of those were well done, some of them were...not.

    If the original Genesis mixes come out again, great. I hope they do. I dare say the 80s CDs could be improved. There have been some really excellent sounding reissues in the last ten years or so- The Beatles/solo reissues, Pink Floyd, Zappa etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    ^I didn't have an issue with the 5.1 mixes. I enjoyed the interview/extra content as well. But those versions are also out of print.

    Andy Zax (who worked on various Rhino projects such as their Woodstock reissues) recently called Davis' remixes 'incompetent'. Ouch.

    https://twitter.com/andyzax/status/1206768264426086401

    I should add The Who to the 'hall of shame'. A fair amount of their albums are also only available in remixed form. Some of those were well done, some of them were...not.

    If the original Genesis mixes come out again, great. I hope they do. I dare say the 80s CDs could be improved. There have been some really excellent sounding reissues in the last ten years or so- The Beatles/solo reissues, Pink Floyd, Zappa etc.
    The Who were among the first to remix their whole catalogue, back in 1996. As far as I know, at least some of their albums have been reissued since in their original mix.

    As far as Genesis is concerned, the current trend would suggest a reissue of the original mixes in years to come. However it seems doubtful because the band members have lost interest. They were fully invested in the remixing campaign 10 years ago and as far as they are concerned, those are the definitive versions. So unless Virgin lauches a new reissue program with minimal involvement from the band, it's unlikely to happen.

  19. #19
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    The Cropped Artwork - Charisma are the best.
    I've got those (picture discs too), but I put them inside the late-90's mini-Lp (exit the cropped arts)
    Last edited by Trane; 4 Days Ago at 10:05 AM.
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    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Can anyone please tell me which cd version of 70's era Genesis albums sounds best ?
    I know the remixes were criticized harshly as being abrasive and compressed
    I'm blocked at work but Udi if you do a search at the Hoffman Forum for best sounding Genesis on CD, there is a huge thread over there. From my memory, the best early albums were the Virgin/Charisma and Atlantics - dpending on the album. I think the only 94 remaster that was an improvement was W&W - but this is just going from memory. The V/C of Foxtrot sounds amazing! Yes, there is compression added on the Nick Davis remasters - I don't think the stereo versions of that lot got high marks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    The Who were among the first to remix their whole catalogue, back in 1996. As far as I know, at least some of their albums have been reissued since in their original mix.
    This is true. The Who Sell Out, Tommy and Who's Next had their original mixes restored for the 2-cd deluxe editions (The Who Sell Out was genuinely an improvement in remixed form IMHO). My Generation is available in its mono mix too. The other albums are all still remixes, unless you get into the world of expensive Japanese reissues.

    A classic example of what I don't like about the Genesis remixes is 'Behind The Lines'. That takes your head off on Davis' version. Too damned loud by far. And then there's the botch made of the twelve-string on the instrumental ending of 'Entangled'. How was that even cleared for release?

    The so-called 'definitive edition remaster' 1994 CDs aren't 'definitive' by any means. But, they are the original mixes and- mostly- not objectionable.

  22. #22
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Different tastes 'n all that, but it's hard for me to understand how anyone who knows the original mixes (regardless of which editions they are) could listen to those horrific Davis remixes and prefer them. Tolerate them, yes, but prefer them? Oh well, as long as they're enjoying the music.

    I just know that there are quite a number of songs whose power was sucked out of them by Davis, that would never have resonated with me the way they did when I heard them for the first time all those years ago. The 'new' Eleventh Earl Of Mar, for example, is an abomination. Thankfully, I have all of the original versions as well. I didn't keep too many of the Definitive Editions, one or two are okay, and as JJ said, at least they are the original mixes. The 1983 (pre-Virgin) Charisma 'yellow rays' CD of Duke is one of the best sounding CDs in my collection.

    This thread is very informative:

    https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-ver-3.868622/
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    There are all sorts of errors and omissions. 'A Trick Of The Tail' has some of the 'hello friend welcome home' vocals missing, 'Misunderstanding' has a guitar lick near the end missing, 'Your Own Special Way' has backing vocals missing. Some songs even used different vocal takes in sections, ISTR 'Supper's Ready' being one. And I really didn't like the 'megaphone' effect used on 'Willow Farm'.

    Genesis' arrangements always used dynamics to the full. That's more or less gone with Davis' versions.

  24. #24
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Genesis' arrangements always used dynamics to the full. That's more or less gone with Davis' versions.
    Yes, completely agreed.
    Prog, Metal and Classic rock reviews/interviews - www.velvetthunder.co.uk

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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Re The Who: If you want the best Tommy, spring for the MFSL.

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