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Thread: Genesis cd editions

  1. #51
    Why don't they do us a big a favor and do a vinyl and CD reissue series of the original mixes?
    Macht das ohr auf!

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    Why don't they do us a big a favor and do a vinyl and CD reissue series of the original mixes?
    I think it's unlikely for reasons I've already developed, but I would love to be pleasantly surprised.
    If a Lamb reissue is indeed in the works, others will follow, but let's not get ahead of ourselves at this point.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by progfan915 View Post
    My 2 cents...I have all of the 1994 DE remasters and enjoy them all, with the following exceptions/replacements:
    - Duke does not sound good; I have the Atlantic disc (pressed in Japan) which sounds fabulous.
    - Trick is also not great; I have the ATCO disc which is also fabulous.
    - Trespass; I have a Canadian MCA disc which is not perfect but is a step up.
    Duke: The best sounding version I have is the 1983 Charisma pressing (before they joined with Virgin), with the 'yellow rays' design. It's the very first CD version.

    https://www.discogs.com/Genesis-Duke/release/3099843

    Trick: I also think the ATCO is the best sounding version I have, by a long shot.

    https://www.discogs.com/Genesis-A-Tr...elease/3094283

    Trespass: Best for me is the Japanese '91 reissue.

    https://www.discogs.com/Genesis-Tres...elease/3007363
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  4. #54
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    I wonder if they'll have Steven Wilson doing new 5.1 mixes. (He has previously said he preferred Hackett's solo albums to Genesis'.)

    Bear in mind the Davis remixes are now fairly old themselves.

  5. #55
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...9813541&sr=8-1

    Far cheaper why to get the coveted Duke CD (just copied the barcode sequence from Discogs and plugged it into Amazon).

    Peter

  6. #56
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    I never got selling England with the cropped cover. Is that one the best sounding?


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  7. #57
    Funny, but I seem to recall back in the days of RMP ('95 - '97) how everyone was complaining about the sound quality of Genesis CD's - I remember The Lamb was particularly attacked dull and flat-sounding. Yet now these editions are lauded as the best-sounding? In the end, best-sounding is in the ear of the beholder. Perhaps it's best to start with whatever CD you can find cheap in the second-hand stores. Try to listen to it without other peoples' prejudices and decide on your own if it sounds 'good enough'. If you've got time and money to burn, then seek out these 'audiophile' pressings and compare for yourself.

    Most of the time I don't hear these subtle differences everyone talks about....except for that Duke pressing - that one did sound pretty sweet

    Peter

  8. #58
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    ^ I wasn't impressed with the 80s editions when I bought them at the time. So you can hear the hiss, iirc. Big deal. I thought the Definitive Editions were an improvement when I bought them. I'm glad the Box Set remixes were done, as it gives another window onto classics that I have loved for decades. Different ears will hear different things. For me, Genesis was an important enough band that I had to buy each edition that came out. Many folks mileage will vary. A few vehicles will wind up in the ditch.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    So you can hear the hiss, iirc. Big deal.
    I so don’t understand the whole “the actual music is in the tape hiss” thing. Sounds like pretentious audiophile BS to me. If I can hear tape hiss on a CD (or a vinyl LP, for that matter), it was mastered lousy, end of story.
    Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Yestor View Post
    Mojo - March 2020 has an article of the making of "Lamb Lies Down on Broadway". They briefly mention Summer 2020 will see the release of a new, rebooted bells and whistles edition of the Lamb. But that was it, no more information. Does anyone else know what they could be referring to?
    Yes, the band has been back in the studio with Phil's kid on drums and Billy Sherwood redoing Hackett's parts. Phil will do the vocals this time. Should be pretty good.

  11. #61
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Har har har.

  12. #62
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    FWIW I don't think the majority of the 90s 'definitive remasters' are bad. Trespass is, the heavy noise reduction on that left it muffled sounding. I think Foxtrot also suffered from this. The others are basically OK and of course they are the original mixes which counts for a lot.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Proglodite View Post
    Funny, but I seem to recall back in the days of RMP ('95 - '97) how everyone was complaining about the sound quality of Genesis CD's
    In comparison to the LP neither these ones sounded good.
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  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    I so don’t understand the whole “the actual music is in the tape hiss” thing. Sounds like pretentious audiophile BS to me. If I can hear tape hiss on a CD (or a vinyl LP, for that matter), it was mastered lousy, end of story.
    Analog hiss is inherent in many of those master tapes. Lose the hiss, lose the music. When I first got the DE Lamb and Foxtrot I wondered why they sounded so dead. I didn't know anything about hiss back then. It was only years later I understood why they sounded dead. Noise-reduction!
    Last edited by yesstiles; 01-24-2020 at 02:56 AM.

  15. #65
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    So I read through this thread and other threads trying to find the answer to which version is the best for Genesis cd releases... than I read this. What say you?... and who is Tony Cousins mentioned below? From what I understand this was a Nick Davis project really no debating that. And who is Mark Barry? What are his credentials? He blasts all previous Genesis cd releases.



    "...Madrigal Music Is Playing..." – A Trick Of The Tail (2008 Virgin CD Reissue 'Standard Version' - 2007 Tony Cousins Remaster)
    By Mark Barry on Jun 11, 2018
    After the high of 1974's concept double-album "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" and the subsequent departure of Peter Gabriel (such an integral part of a unique band and their charismatic frontman for five years) – common consensus held was that Genesis would implode or worse – carry on with a heart-hearted crew pumping out half-assed material.

    The first album post PG-apocalypse featuring Phil Collins as the band's Lead Vocalist was February 1976's "A Trick Of The Tail" and it proved the naysayers wrong. In fact many would say that the following year's "Wind And Wuthering" in January 1977 followed in October of that year by the triumphant live double "Seconds Out" hammered shut the cakehole of that gobby and argumentative git. Genesis had never been so popular or so commercially successful and did so in the two years where Punk and New Wave Music seemed to be wiping away all that was perceived as old fart.

    So when it comes to CD reissues of "A Trick Of The Tail" the only real argument here is about the AUDIO. Is it any good? Or to be exact (after the crap we’ve had for years) - is it any better? Hell YES is the answer here...

    Having been inflicted with what was called a 'Definitive Edition Remaster' in 1994 (themselves replacements for earlier shambolic issues in the Eighties) – fans held their collective hairpieces when the April 2007 Remasters were released in SACD form – Remastered by Tape Engineer Supremo TONY COUSINS. But one listen to this amazing-sounding standard single CD edition (reissued April 2008) and all those reports and raves about revelatory sound were true. Just taking in "Entangled" or "Ripples" on this CD is enough to elicit a little proggy tear from my ageing and weary googly-ganglers.

    This is a gorgeous and amazingly well handled transfer of dense and rich music. And as the SACD 2-Disc variant from April 2007 (Barcode 094638596424) is now garnishing extortionate sums since deletion (forty quid and more) – at least this April 2008 single-disc stripped-down standard-variant reissue with just the album on it - is available for less than the price of a kebab whilst still retaining that great TC Remaster. Let’s get to the Squonk and dreams of Mad Man Moon (that's Genesis-speak for details)...

    UK released April 2008 – "A Trick Of The Tail" by GENESIS on Virgin/Charisma GENYCD 6 (Barcode 0094639164226) is a straightforward CD 'Standard Edition' transfer of their 1976 album (SACD and Stereo Mixes used here first issued April 2007) and plays out as follows (51:15 minutes):

    1. Dance On A Volcano [Side 1]
    2. Entangled
    3. Squonk
    4. Mad Man Moon
    5. Robbery, Assault And Battery [Side 2]
    6. Ripples
    7. A Trick Of The Tail
    8. Los Endos
    Tracks 1 to 8 are their seventh studio album (eighth overall) "A Trick Of The Tail" – released February 1976 in the UK on Charisma CDS 4001 and in the USA on Atco SD 36-129. Produced by DAVID HENTSCHEL and GENESIS – it peaked at No. 3 and No. 31 in the UK and USA LP charts.

    GENESIS was:
    PHIL COLLINS – Lead and Backing Vocals, Drums and Percussion
    STEVE HACKETT – Electric and Acoustic Guitars
    TONY BANKS – Piano, Synths, Organ, Mellotron, 12-String Acoustic Guitar and Backing Vocals
    MIKE RUTHERFORD – Bass and 12-String Guitar

    The booklet reproduces the lyrics first aired on the inner gatefold of the 1976 vinyl LP along with Colin Elgie's design and those cartoons that followed each song. But the big news is the TONY COUSINS Remaster.

    When those beep-beep notes and drums open the band-written "Dance On A Volcano" and it finally gets into its Prog swing - the power is huge. But it's not until you get to the gorgeous six and half-minutes of Hackett and Banks' "Entangled" that you 'feel' the audio change - those acoustic guitars so clear - Collins and the others singing Lead and Backing Vocals - children dreaming - the rush and swirl as the melody swoops and soars. Rutherford and Banks provided "Squonk" - probably the nearest the album gets to Rock - a swaggering Prog tune with Drums and Cymbals crashing around your room as the Remaster brings the rhythm section to the fore. Side 1 ends with seven and half minutes of "Mad Man Moon" - a piano based ballad provided by Tony Banks. Collins sings about pain with conviction 'oh how I loved you...quite some time ago...I was the one who decided to go...' and then about a thousand mirages later Banks brings the Mellotron up with those wall of voices - very Lamb Lies Down On Broadway meets Selling England By The Pound. The later piano passages and fast lyric rolls to the end make for a sophisticated but moving listen.

    Side 2 opens with "Robbery, Assault and Battery" - a 1975 Collins and Banks song that lyrically seemed to point the way to his 'Buster' film role more than a decade later during the height of Collins' solo career. But for me the album's masterpiece is the beautiful "Ripples" - eight-minutes of sail-away Genesis gorgeousness. Hell PC even sounds like PG in some verses while Steve Hackett's delicate twelve-string guitar picking harks back to the glory of "Horizons" and "Supper’s Ready" on "Foxtrot". It's a gorgeous melody and the slow to fast Rutherford/Banks song construction gives it an epic feel - 0whilst still feeling like an intimate ballad (memories of 'The Grove' in Clontarf when this song was played during a 'slow set'). The jaunt of the title track (a Tony Banks song) offers a clever change of pace and mood - magical creatures in the city of gold somewhere up there in the distance. The album comes to a close with the manic dash of "Los Endos" - a motorcar-fast Proggy instrumental that always seems to represent the album on those endless 'Best Of' and 'Anthology' CD sets.

    Personally I think this rather plain looking CD reissue in its dull jewel case loses some of the original LPs visual impact (time to get one of those Japanese SHM-CD Mini LP Repros) - but the Audio more than makes up for that. Sail away indeed, but even after 40+ years those Ripples keep carrying me back...
    Images in this review

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    Why don't they do us a big a favor and do a vinyl and CD reissue series of the original mixes?
    An overwhelmingly giant one proclaiming the very last and final edition for eternal debate and scrutiny?
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by rich View Post
    So I read through this thread and other threads trying to find the answer to which version is the best for Genesis cd releases... than I read this. What say you?... and who is Tony Cousins mentioned below? From what I understand this was a Nick Davis project really no debating that. And who is Mark Barry? What are his credentials? He blasts all previous Genesis cd releases.



    "...Madrigal Music Is Playing..." – A Trick Of The Tail (2008 Virgin CD Reissue 'Standard Version' - 2007 Tony Cousins Remaster)
    By Mark Barry on Jun 11, 2018
    After the high of 1974's concept double-album "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" and the subsequent departure of Peter Gabriel (such an integral part of a unique band and their charismatic frontman for five years) – common consensus held was that Genesis would implode or worse – carry on with a heart-hearted crew pumping out half-assed material.

    The first album post PG-apocalypse featuring Phil Collins as the band's Lead Vocalist was February 1976's "A Trick Of The Tail" and it proved the naysayers wrong. In fact many would say that the following year's "Wind And Wuthering" in January 1977 followed in October of that year by the triumphant live double "Seconds Out" hammered shut the cakehole of that gobby and argumentative git. Genesis had never been so popular or so commercially successful and did so in the two years where Punk and New Wave Music seemed to be wiping away all that was perceived as old fart.

    So when it comes to CD reissues of "A Trick Of The Tail" the only real argument here is about the AUDIO. Is it any good? Or to be exact (after the crap we’ve had for years) - is it any better? Hell YES is the answer here...

    Having been inflicted with what was called a 'Definitive Edition Remaster' in 1994 (themselves replacements for earlier shambolic issues in the Eighties) – fans held their collective hairpieces when the April 2007 Remasters were released in SACD form – Remastered by Tape Engineer Supremo TONY COUSINS. But one listen to this amazing-sounding standard single CD edition (reissued April 2008) and all those reports and raves about revelatory sound were true. Just taking in "Entangled" or "Ripples" on this CD is enough to elicit a little proggy tear from my ageing and weary googly-ganglers.

    This is a gorgeous and amazingly well handled transfer of dense and rich music. And as the SACD 2-Disc variant from April 2007 (Barcode 094638596424) is now garnishing extortionate sums since deletion (forty quid and more) – at least this April 2008 single-disc stripped-down standard-variant reissue with just the album on it - is available for less than the price of a kebab whilst still retaining that great TC Remaster. Let’s get to the Squonk and dreams of Mad Man Moon (that's Genesis-speak for details)...

    UK released April 2008 – "A Trick Of The Tail" by GENESIS on Virgin/Charisma GENYCD 6 (Barcode 0094639164226) is a straightforward CD 'Standard Edition' transfer of their 1976 album (SACD and Stereo Mixes used here first issued April 2007) and plays out as follows (51:15 minutes):

    1. Dance On A Volcano [Side 1]
    2. Entangled
    3. Squonk
    4. Mad Man Moon
    5. Robbery, Assault And Battery [Side 2]
    6. Ripples
    7. A Trick Of The Tail
    8. Los Endos
    Tracks 1 to 8 are their seventh studio album (eighth overall) "A Trick Of The Tail" – released February 1976 in the UK on Charisma CDS 4001 and in the USA on Atco SD 36-129. Produced by DAVID HENTSCHEL and GENESIS – it peaked at No. 3 and No. 31 in the UK and USA LP charts.

    GENESIS was:
    PHIL COLLINS – Lead and Backing Vocals, Drums and Percussion
    STEVE HACKETT – Electric and Acoustic Guitars
    TONY BANKS – Piano, Synths, Organ, Mellotron, 12-String Acoustic Guitar and Backing Vocals
    MIKE RUTHERFORD – Bass and 12-String Guitar

    The booklet reproduces the lyrics first aired on the inner gatefold of the 1976 vinyl LP along with Colin Elgie's design and those cartoons that followed each song. But the big news is the TONY COUSINS Remaster.

    When those beep-beep notes and drums open the band-written "Dance On A Volcano" and it finally gets into its Prog swing - the power is huge. But it's not until you get to the gorgeous six and half-minutes of Hackett and Banks' "Entangled" that you 'feel' the audio change - those acoustic guitars so clear - Collins and the others singing Lead and Backing Vocals - children dreaming - the rush and swirl as the melody swoops and soars. Rutherford and Banks provided "Squonk" - probably the nearest the album gets to Rock - a swaggering Prog tune with Drums and Cymbals crashing around your room as the Remaster brings the rhythm section to the fore. Side 1 ends with seven and half minutes of "Mad Man Moon" - a piano based ballad provided by Tony Banks. Collins sings about pain with conviction 'oh how I loved you...quite some time ago...I was the one who decided to go...' and then about a thousand mirages later Banks brings the Mellotron up with those wall of voices - very Lamb Lies Down On Broadway meets Selling England By The Pound. The later piano passages and fast lyric rolls to the end make for a sophisticated but moving listen.

    Side 2 opens with "Robbery, Assault and Battery" - a 1975 Collins and Banks song that lyrically seemed to point the way to his 'Buster' film role more than a decade later during the height of Collins' solo career. But for me the album's masterpiece is the beautiful "Ripples" - eight-minutes of sail-away Genesis gorgeousness. Hell PC even sounds like PG in some verses while Steve Hackett's delicate twelve-string guitar picking harks back to the glory of "Horizons" and "Supper’s Ready" on "Foxtrot". It's a gorgeous melody and the slow to fast Rutherford/Banks song construction gives it an epic feel - 0whilst still feeling like an intimate ballad (memories of 'The Grove' in Clontarf when this song was played during a 'slow set'). The jaunt of the title track (a Tony Banks song) offers a clever change of pace and mood - magical creatures in the city of gold somewhere up there in the distance. The album comes to a close with the manic dash of "Los Endos" - a motorcar-fast Proggy instrumental that always seems to represent the album on those endless 'Best Of' and 'Anthology' CD sets.

    Personally I think this rather plain looking CD reissue in its dull jewel case loses some of the original LPs visual impact (time to get one of those Japanese SHM-CD Mini LP Repros) - but the Audio more than makes up for that. Sail away indeed, but even after 40+ years those Ripples keep carrying me back...
    Images in this review
    Where did you find this? Mark Barry needs his ears cleaned.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by yesstiles View Post
    Where did you find this? Mark Barry needs his ears cleaned.

    A buyer on Amazon had a link to it... definitely contrary to everything I've read... but also who is Tom Cousins credited with the remaster???

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by rich View Post
    A buyer on Amazon had a link to it... definitely contrary to everything I've read... but also who is Tom Cousins credited with the remaster???
    Tony Cousins mastered it, but the damage was done by Nick Davis when he compressed the mixes prior to mastering.

  20. #70
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    Yep, discogs suggests all cds with this barcode still bear the mark of the Great Satan himself....

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