Canterbury Binge MMXX

[Scrotum Scissor]

Khan Space Shanty....
Lots of killer bass on this.

And basically more written harmonic interplay in the opening track alone than in certain other bands' entire output. Composed by an 18-year old. The 'juvenile' aura of this album makes for so much of its appeal, but i've always reacted to those who keep pointing at the 'charm' of it all; to my ears it's a far more elaborate release than your average early 70s underground progressive record. The level of intensity achieved in the mid-section of "Driving to Amsterdam" is astounding.

[chalkpie]

And basically more written harmonic interplay in the opening track alone than in certain other bands' entire output. Composed by an 18-year old. The 'juvenile' aura of this album makes for so much of its appeal, but i've always reacted to those who keep pointing at the 'charm' of it all; to my ears it's a far more elaborate release than your average early 70s underground progressive record. The level of intensity achieved in the mid-section of "Driving to Amsterdam" is astounding.

So far this year the two albums that have reached me are Space Shanty and Gilgamesh Another Fine Tune...I've had both of these for a while but making a real connection this time around. It happens every year with a few Canterbury albums.

[chalkpie]

The Khan album is a massive classic.

I've just put on National Health's Of Queues And Cures, the evening is off to a good start!

Those albums never cease to amaze regardless of how many times you spin 'em.

[Progatron]

Those albums never cease to amaze regardless of how many times you spin 'em.

Quite true, they never get old with me. Unlike other bands, albums, even genres(!) the time will never come where I'm no longer interested in these albums we're discussing.

Coffee is poured (in my Matching Mole mug, no less) and Hugh Hopper's Hopper Tunity Box is spinning on the stereo. I absolutely love this album. Right from the title track, it has such a great feel to it.

[chalkpie]

^Hopper Tunity is another that has grown on me over the years. I see it as just below the all-time classics of the genre but still quite unique and strong.

Does anybody know if there is any reading regarding Fripp's involvement as produce on Little Red Record? I can't seem to find anything really online that touches this subject in any real detail.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Does anybody know if there is any reading regarding Fripp's involvement as produce on Little Red Record?

Only those few paragraphs in M. King's Wrong Movements where Phil Miller's esteem for Fripp is mentioned as a reason for him being nervous on recording - to which Wyatt aptly comments that he himself didn't have the same problem. I always found that to be a somewhat charming remark.

The Production job on LRR isn't all that bad, though - apart from the descant frequence of the Rhodes. Wyatt's clean snare is pretty well captured, as is MacCormick's raunchy bass. And Phil M. sounds good throughout. I suppose it was a matter of intent to have a followup more raw and punchy than the debut.

[calyx]

Only those few paragraphs in M. King's Wrong Movements where Phil Miller's esteem for Fripp is mentioned as a reason for him being nervous on recording - to which Wyatt aptly comments that he himself didn't have the same problem. I always found that to be a somewhat charming remark.

To be honest... I think that's just how Bill MacCormick phrased it in one particular interview, having come into trouble (with Fripp, via the Elephant Talk mailing list where someone had posted about this) for the way he initially told it.

As far as I can tell, it wasn't so much "esteem" for Fripp as (a) being intimidated by Fripp's producer persona, and (b) an inferiority complex vis-à-vis Fripp's superior technical facility. I don't think Phil had any particular interest or even knowledge of King Crimson. And although Phil had good things to say about Fripp's work as producer generally (choosing the best takes etc.), he wasn't too impressed (nor am I) with the way the album sounds - "tinny, almost like a cassette", I think is a good approximation of what he said about it.

[arturs]

Coffee is poured (in my Matching Mole mug, no less)

I have that mug too! It's a beautiful reproduction of the album cover and my kids love it. They have fought over who gets to drink from it... Of course that means I rarely get it.

The funny thing about that mug is that I was placing an order from Burning Shed when I saw the mug on "SALE" for 6 or 7 pounds. I thought what the heck and added it to the cart. But I didn't pay attention to the postage. They shipped the mug separately and I think added 12 pounds for postage. So it came out to a $25 mug. At first I was upset about it but then realized that well it is really nice and no use crying over spilled milk and all that.

[chalkpie]

Only those few paragraphs in M. King's Wrong Movements where Phil Miller's esteem for Fripp is mentioned as a reason for him being nervous on recording - to which Wyatt aptly comments that he himself didn't have the same problem. I always found that to be a somewhat charming remark.

The Production job on LRR isn't all that bad, though - apart from the descant frequence of the Rhodes. Wyatt's clean snare is pretty well captured, as is MacCormick's raunchy bass. And Phil M. sounds good throughout. I suppose it was a matter of intent to have a followup more raw and punchy than the debut.

To be honest... I think that's just how Bill MacCormick phrased it in one particular interview, having come into trouble (with Fripp, via the Elephant Talk mailing list where someone had posted about this) for the way he initially told it.

As far as I can tell, it wasn't so much "esteem" for Fripp as (a) being intimidated by Fripp's producer persona, and (b) an inferiority complex vis-à-vis Fripp's superior technical facility. I don't think Phil had any particular interest or even knowledge of King Crimson. And although Phil had good things to say about Fripp's work as producer generally (choosing the best takes etc.), he wasn't too impressed (nor am I) with the way the album sounds - "tinny, almost like a cassette", I think is a good approximation of what he said about it.

Do we know the extent of what RF actually did at the sessions? Did he man the console and recorder? Or more of the musical aspect? I'm trying to get an idea of how much involvement he had and/or what he actually did at those sessions.

[Steve F.]

Do we know the extent of what RF actually did at the sessions? Did he man the console and recorder? Or more of the musical aspect? I'm trying to get an idea of how much involvement he had and/or what he actually did at those sessions.

He was the producer, not the engineer. The producer generally does not man the console and the recorder.

As producer he would select takes, make musical suggestions for the band to consider about performances, and 'shape the sound and the feel' of what the final album will sound like / be like.

If you want to have at least a bit of an idea of what he did, listen to the Esoteric version of Little Red Record with all the bonus tracks, where you can hear him speak.

[rcarlberg]

At first I was upset about it but then realized that well it is really nice and no use crying over spilled milk and all that.

Yikes, is it cracked?

[interbellum]

Adore this unreleased tune

Really nice, but not unreleased. It's one of the bonus tracks on the double CD/DVD set of In The Land Of Grey And Pink (Deram, 2011)

I was just listening to National Health! Still fresh after all these years.
One question: just before the fade out starts in Elephants it sounds as if through a vocoder (probably a Moog) one of the musicians says "Bye, Goodbye". At least that's what I've always heard since 1978. True?

NP Soft Machine: Bundles - with the new boxset The Harvest Albums I've got a good reason to listen to this one again ;-)

First Canterbury I bought? Mmmm, technically speaking I guess Caravan & The New Symphonia, (bought in October 1976), although I might mention the Soft Machine-inspired Cordon Bleu by Solution as the first non-British Canterbury (bought in February the same year.

[Progatron]

NP Soft Machine: Bundles - with the new boxset The Harvest Albums I've got a good reason to listen to this one again ;-)

I *love* Bundles. But then, I love Softs too, although that period doesn't tend to get quite as much love as earlier phases of their catalogue. It's a bit like with Gong, I tend to gravitate towards the Shamal, Gazeuse, Expresso period, even if that's not even close to what they were known for. Oh, and Downwind - I love that album!

[calyx]

One question: just before the fade out starts in Elephants it sounds as if through a vocoder (probably a Moog) one of the musicians says "Bye, Goodbye". At least that's what I've always heard since 1978. True?

It's Alan Gowen singing "bye for now" in his vocoder.

[arturs]

Yikes, is it cracked?

++rimshot!++

[Scrotum Scissor]

To be honest... I think that's just how Bill MacCormick phrased it in one particular interview, having come into trouble (with Fripp, via the Elephant Talk mailing list where someone had posted about this) for the way he initially told it.

As far as I can tell, it wasn't so much "esteem" for Fripp as (a) being intimidated by Fripp's producer persona, and (b) an inferiority complex vis-à-vis Fripp's superior technical facility. I don't think Phil had any particular interest or even knowledge of King Crimson.

You're absolutely correct, as (just about) always - it was indeed MacCormick's saying and not Wyatt's; I went straight to the book in order to check it when I got home from work this evening. And you're also totally poignant as to the impression of not esteem or respect but - well - a kind of fear or uneasiness at Fripp's reputation and status as musician/producer. After all the guy had exorted much control over the mammoth Centipede project (which I personally never had too much time for), but there was probably much more. Given Miller's own writing and playing, there's little to indicate a crossing interest with the kind of musical or artistic aesthetic sought by Fripp, so it wouldn't have been "natural" for any awe to play a part here.

[Zappathustra]

You'll probably all crucify me for saying it, but I could always hear some Fripp in Miller's guitar, for example at the end of Binoculars.

[aith01]

I have that mug too! It's a beautiful reproduction of the album cover and my kids love it. [...]

Ah! I didn't realize one existed. I just ordered one from Burning Shed. Thanks!

[chalkpie]

He was the producer, not the engineer. The producer generally does not man the console and the recorder.

As producer he would select takes, make musical suggestions for the band to consider about performances, and 'shape the sound and the feel' of what the final album will sound like / be like.

If you want to have at least a bit of an idea of what he did, listen to the Esoteric version of Little Red Record with all the bonus tracks, where you can hear him speak.

[chalkpie]

Coffee is poured (in my Matching Mole mug, no less) .

Doing the Moles. Robert's playing on "Dedicated To Hugh..." is just phenomenal - his feel is SO perfect and he has just the right jazziness/touch. Listen very carefully to his snare chatter, then he goes into an almost Vander-esque double time feel that is very Magma-like for a period of time. Put this cat on the list of great drummers, period.

[Zappathustra]

I also "did the Moles" today, and I really don't know what to say. Despite many listens, it's still like listening to both for the first time. One can never be sure about anything with these records, there's so many subtle ideas, so many surprises, so many things that suddenly creep up into attention. The first is a truly post-modern record, its flow from the silly-yet-beautiful self-referential songs into very elaborate instrumentals is unique and a token of Wyatt's genius - it leaves the listener suspended, waiting for something that never really happens. I love Dave Sinclair in this more experimental context, one that he never found himself into (except Wyatt's End Of An Ear).

The Red Book is closer as structure to a "normal" progressive rock record, but still bursting with ideas that defy any categorization or interpretation. What does one make of a song like Gloria Gloom? Its beginning is the soundtrack of a nightmare - the trains that pass us by - and then all this mundane talking as foreground and background to this long vocal melody - before the song dies again into winter gloom and a train whistle. Brilliant.

I believe Wyatt's creativity and ingenuity reached a peak in these 2 records, along with Rock Bottom.

[Scrotum Scissor]

I believe Wyatt's creativity and ingenuity reached a peak in these 2 records, along with Rock Bottom.

His greatest lyric and vocal performance was "Muddy Mouse/Mouth" on Ruth, IMO - and that entire side 2 (which became side 1 on certain reissues, just as with LLR). While Softs' Vol. 2 and his very own Rock Bottom remain my Wyatt faves as a whole, I don't think I could live on without that original side 2 of Ruth. All of him is captured there; the humour, the zaniness, the existentialist despair, the sadness, the joy.

[interbellum]

It's Alan Gowen singing "bye for now" in his vocoder.

Thanks!

[Zappathustra]

His greatest lyric and vocal performance was "Muddy Mouse/Mouth" on Ruth, IMO - and that entire side 2 (which became side 1 on certain reissues, just as with LLR). While Softs' Vol. 2 and his very own Rock Bottom remain my Wyatt faves as a whole, I don't think I could live on without that original side 2 of Ruth. All of him is captured there; the humour, the zaniness, the existentialist despair, the sadness, the joy.

Yes, true. As a whole I would place Ruthie just a bit lower than Rock Bottom (it sounds like a silly pun but it isn't). The Matching Mole records give the whole spectrum of his talent: the drummer, the singer, the writer, the bandleader.

[aith01]

His greatest lyric and vocal performance was "Muddy Mouse/Mouth" on Ruth, IMO - and that entire side 2 (which became side 1 on certain reissues, just as with LLR).

I think I'm inclined to agree. The mood on that side of the LP, and especially on the final part of the "Muddy Mouse" set, is really wonderful and hard to describe (for me). Ruth is a great record, even though it's not my favorite Wyatt work either.