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Thread: Seminal prog albums you’ve never even listened to

  1. #101
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    PE in a nutshell.
    He was such a nice thread when he was little.

  2. #102
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  3. #103
    Well, I suppose I'll have to be careful in how I present myself but I wasn't being disingenuous in starting this thread. I genuinely thought it would be interesting to hear which fundamental prog LPs members hadn't even listened to -- for whatever reason -- considering that most, like me, have listened to thousands.

    And in fact, several members have responded in just that way. The fact that some members had heard certain works by core artists and hadn't found them particularly captivating (as in my case) and therefore didn't go out of their way to explore more seems to me to be a valid reason for not having heard the 'seminal work'. So, too, is the fact that there is so much out there which begs exploring such that some of us (again, me too) simply never get/got around to hearing the full canon.

    A position was presented by two respected and knowledgeable members that I disagreed with, in response to which I probably overstated my case.

    In order to get the thread back on track, here is a list of seminal prog or thereabouts albums that I did finally get around to hearing over the last 5 years and did (mostly) enjoy:
    Miles Davis - In a Silent Way/Bitches Brew
    KC- Larks Tongues in Aspic/Islands
    Robert Wyatt- Rock Bottom
    Can - Future Days
    Herbie Hancock - Crossings


    I hope to get to Tony Williams Lifetime - Emergency soon.

  4. #104
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    didya like Crossings?

    cause if so, you really need to hear Sextant
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    didya like Crossings?

    cause if so, you really need to hear Sextant
    Enjoying Crossings lead me to buy Sextant but the latter is a much more difficult listen.

    These days I’m getting more mileage out of the American scene of the time than I am from the British scene.

    I actually got my first Santana CD ever, recently — Welcome. Lots of wonderfully jazzy excursions there, less enthused with the few soulful radio friendly tunes.

  6. #106
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Sextant is my favourite Herbie Hancock album. Brilliant and adventurous music.


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  7. #107
    Of the first 3 Santana, I only have listened (and own) Abraxas.
    Sometimes it's just laziness, or lack of motivation, or pure chance that decides what gets attention or not.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Vengeance View Post


    I hope to get to Tony Williams Lifetime - Emergency soon.
    I only got the chance to listen to this one month ago (it kept appearing in lists with the best music from 1969). I liked it so much that I felt an idiot for being unaware of it all these years.

    So why hadn't I listened to it before? Because my main source for jazz had been the Penguin guide and I don't remember it there mentioned as a core album. I also had the impression that this would be a more traditional fusion record - I am not a huge fan of the genre - and not the psychedelic/experimental beast that proved to be.

  9. #109
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Vengeance View Post
    Enjoying Crossings lead me to buy Sextant but the latter is a much more difficult listen.

    I actually got my first Santana CD ever, recently — Welcome. Lots of wonderfully jazzy excursions there, less enthused with the few soulful radio friendly tunes.
    You're right, Sextant is a step further out there than Crossing, as Gleason's electronic gizmos take a more important role.
    I guess you like Bennie Maupin's (not to be confused with Bernie Taupin, Elton's lyricist) bass clarinet, which gives the music a depth few others do.

    Well you definitely need to hear Santana's Caravanserai (a top 5 in my book), especially if you heard and enjoy Crossings
    And you might want to look at Carlos' collab with Alice Coltrane called Illuminations

    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Sextant is my favourite Herbie Hancock album. Brilliant and adventurous music.
    Yup, I wished the Mwandishi line-up had done a fourth album, but since Sextant sold too few to go forward, in came the commercial success of Head Hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Of the first 3 Santana, I only have listened (and own) Abraxas.
    Sometimes it's just laziness, or lack of motivation, or pure chance that decides what gets attention or not.
    Well, in a way, you own one of the first three, you own them all, but alll three are magnificent. Then, the group breaks up during Caravanserai, but the dissentions created a masterpiece that Carlos was never able to equal with the future Santana line-ups.
    Last edited by Trane; 12-26-2019 at 12:45 PM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Yoyu're right, Sextant is a step firther out there than Crossing, as Gleason's electronic gizmos take a more important role/
    I guess you like Bennie Maupin's (not to be confused with Bernie Taupin, Elton's lyricist)bass clarinet, which gives the music a depth few others do.

    Well you definitely need to hear Santana's Caravanserai (a top 5 in my book), especially if you heard and enjoy Crossings
    And you loght want to look at Carlos' collab wuth Alice Coltrane called Illuminations



    Yup, I wished the Mwandishi line-up had done a fourth album, but since Sextant sold too few to go forward, in came the commercial success of Head Hunters



    Well, in a way, you own one of the first three, you own them all, but alll three are magnificent. Then, the group breaks up during Caravanserai, but the dissentions created a masterpiece that Carlos was never able to equal with the future Santana line-ups.
    Bingo on Bennie Maupin. His playing really underpins Crossings. His ‘The Jewel In The Lotus’ is one of ECMs few forays into spiritual jazz, and a top 10 ECM disc for me.

    Caravanserai is now at the top of my must listen list.

  11. #111
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    A friend got me Katy Lied, The Royal Scam and Aja for Christmas. So Steely Dan will no longer be on that list for me.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  12. #112
    cunning linguist 3LockBox's Avatar
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    You don't listen to Steely Dan to be prog. You listen to Steely Dan to be cool.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by 3LockBox View Post
    You don't listen to Steely Dan to be prog. You listen to Steely Dan to be cool.
    You listen to Steely Dan because you are cool. Or you are cool because you listen to Steely Dan. It's all one when the Dan has entered your soul (with or without lube).
    “your ognna pay pay with my wrath of ballbat”

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  14. #114
    As a quick test I ran through the PA top 100 albums (okay, this is very imperfect substitute for the 'canon of prog', but it's at least a convenient proxy).

    My results as follows:

    Own or know well: 52
    Have heard: 28
    Never heard: 20

    Slightly to my surprise, as I went through the list there was very little of what I haven't heard that I felt I really should have done, or of what I've heard but only once or twice that I felt needed further attention. Then again I've been listening to this music with greater or lesser intensity for over 35 years now; at this point I know fairly well what kind of thing interests me and what doesn't.
    “your ognna pay pay with my wrath of ballbat”

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  15. #115
    I don't own 47, so I own 53
    If I don't own it, I consider it not heard.

  16. #116
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    I looked up the top 100.

    I did not know 16 ('didn't know' means I have heard none of it to maybe hearing it once or twice maximum in little pieces here and there over the years).

    I'm proggier than I thought I was.
    Steve F.

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  17. #117
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    PA Top 100:
    Never heard 7 (includes Wilson, Riverside and PoS),
    heard and maybe I owned it long ago: 7
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  18. #118
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Wow... I own the top 58 albums on that list, and 92 of them in total. Jeez, I wouldn't have guessed that! I really expected to have not owned 30 or 40 of them, and to have not even heard of some of them.

    The ones I dont have are Magma (twice), Supertramp, Riverside, Pain Of Salvation, Queensr˙che, Tool and Henry Cow. And apart from Supertramp, I'd have to say I couldn't hum a note of those albums, so it seems I have some work to do as well!

    EDIT: Scratch that, I thought I owned Ommadawn, but on closer inspection, I don't. But I know it (and like it)!
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  19. #119
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    I don't own 15 of those

    mostly: Pain of Salvation, Porcupine Tree and Steven Wilson, Miles Davis (which I only like live) and Opeth
    and some Zappa.

    The only Album I will most likely will buy sometimes is the Univers Zero one (don't know why I missed that one).

    I don't care about the rest (apart from Zappa that never really got me, but I will try again)

  20. #120
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    I did also the "PA-test". I own 96 of those and have heard all of them. I am very prog.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  21. #121
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    I own or have owned (a few on vinyl or cassette that I haven't replaced) 72 of the PA top 100. I too am surprised how proggy my tastes apparently are. Among the remaining 28 there are several where I know the bulk of the material from live albums or compilations.

    There are five that I really do need to check out: the Wobbler (#19. holy cow, two spots above Hybris!), Harmonium, Grand Wazoo, Museo Rosenbach and Bacamarte. The rest, metal-era Opeth, Dream Theater, etc., I know enough about to know I don't need to go there.

  22. #122
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    There are five that I really do need to check out: the Wobbler (#19. holy cow, two spots above Hybris!), Harmonium, Grand Wazoo, Museo Rosenbach and Bacamarte.
    I love ALL of those! You are in for some treats there.
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  23. #123
    I have listened to 90 of PA's infamous 100. If I haven't listened to it, I consider it as not owned.

    Of course the list is ridiculous. Wobbler at 19? I am big fan of Wobbler but show us some mercy here! Kind of Blue in the list? Why not the 5th of Beethoven then?

  24. #124
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teddy Vengeance View Post
    Caravanserai is now at the top of my must listen list.
    it's an album's worth of the best sound ideas from Welcome, so I'm pretty sure you'll like it
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Kind of Blue in the list? Why not the 5th of Beethoven then?
    Oh, the scandalous case of Kind of Blue! Its permanent spot in the top 100 is silly, but is actually a second-order consequence of a design decision that wasn’t necessarily taken for silly reasons, i.e. that if an artist has released any albums that are considered prog then their entire output, prog or not, should be listed in the database. This makes the database more useful, in that if I love Jimbo McFretwank’s prog albums I may also want to learn about his excursions into tango and blackened ceilidh music, nay his entire artistic trajectory. Probably equally importantly it avoided the endless flamewars about which of each artist’s albums are or aren’t prog that would inevitably have resulted if the decision had been made only to include the artist’s ”prog albums” in the database. The PA forum is moribund now, but it used to be Vesuvius every day and if collabs had to justify their decision on when Genesis stopped being prog the resulting conflagration would probably have destroyed the Universe. People would certainly have been killed.

    Once you make the decision to be artist-comprehensive it flows inexorably that Kind of Blue will be one of the greatest “prog albums” of all time. You’ve got to have Miles for the electric albums. And then Kind of Blue is guaranteed hundreds of five-star reviews because everyone who owns less than ten jazz albums knows it’s the greatest jazz recording of all time.
    Last edited by Mascodagama; 12-26-2019 at 07:13 PM.

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