Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker

[Yodelgoat]

Saw the Movie and it was really good. Nice to see Merry from Lord of the rings has found gainful employment again. Depressed that Luke looks like hell. I will go see it again with my daughter. Man, do I ever love movie theater popcorn. I'll also be the guy to watch every Star Wars movie made. I love stuff from my childhood. Love all the Marvel movies for the same reason. Some of you remind me of my dad, when we were kids watching the Flintstones, and My dad walks thru the room, stops and watches 30 seconds, and then yells at Fred on the screen:

"Well... Dont buy the bowling ball if you dont have the money!!!"

No, they will never make a real light saber (Michio Kaku talks about that in his book about plausible science - dont recall the name at the moment) But its a cool imaginary weapon. Some of the critters in the movie are just laughable, but thats part of the charm. I say go ahead and suspend your disbelief for a couple hours... It may kill you, but realistically, probably not.

I hate how they force us to watch movies and pay for franchise stuff we arent interested in.

[alucard]

I once owned an original poster of the movie from 1977. Of course it's long gone now. Might've been worth today as much as a vintage Fender guitar......

Darth Vader's original 63 black Telecaster (with built in vocoder) might be slightly more expensive.

[Poisoned Youth]

I say go ahead and suspend your disbelief for a couple hours... It may kill you, but realistically, probably not.

I hate how they force us to watch movies and pay for franchise stuff we arent interested in.

I think it's entirely plausible to be a fan of the franchise, be a fan of the film, be a 'kid again', suspend disbelief, and yet still be critical at the same time. In fact, I give more credence to opinions and discussion on PE that show a person's ability to be both positive and critical.

I enjoyed the film. Yeah, it isn't the exact story I would have chosen, but I am content with it. As a fan since '77, I am good with the way it all ended. I was a kid dreaming of the story continuing/ending and I got my wish. I don't feel the need to dissect the scenes and break apart what I didn't fancy. Nah, I rather revisit the elements that I thoroughly enjoyed.

Ultimately this is my take as well. I was 7 when Star Wars was released and it was a defining moment in my life, and eventually my career. I can't help but be personally "invested".

Looking back on the original trilogy, while it was "serious filmmaking" for its time, they were never serious films. There were always silly moments, and many times when you really have to ignore what would normally be common sense. But the movies were fun and imaginative.

And honestly, I was always (and still am) a closet prequels fan. And as fun and imaginative as they were (but much more silly), they had a few serious flaws that can't be ignored, like some god awful dialog and delivery, that really detract from the experience. But while others focus on Jar Jar, pod racing, midichlorians and Padakin, for ME the most poorly executed aspect of the prequel trilogy was the single most important story element - Anakin's character arc and descent to the dark side.

The sequel trilogy, in the end, is more nostalgia than anything else. It feels like an obligation for fans that grew up as kids knowing that Lucas envisioned 9 films. While TFA is certainly a "fun" film that feels like a worthy follow up to RotJ, there's no ignoring that the story is super familiar - not only because they essentially re-wrote A New Hope, but because even the non-parallel elements seems safe and familiar. But it works.

In regards to TLJ, I will stand by my criticism of the film. Changing the author of a story half way during the book is generally not going to generate great outcomes. Had it actually been something mind-blowing I'd have supported it. I like the film for the action sequences and the Snoke death scene.

As I mentioned earlier, RoS essentially makes most of the plot decisions in TLJ moot. You can remove much of the film without skipping a beat. RoS is "emotionally satisfying" I suppose. Sort of like TFA, it kinda "seems right". I think my biggest criticism of the film would be how the Jedi/Sith continue to be more OP. I felt the prequel trilogy did the best job of fleshing out the Jedi. TLJ and RoS took it to the Marvel level or even God-like. Beyond that, it seemed as if they couldn't really figure out what to do with most of the characters beyond Rey and Kylo - from the "main characters" to the Knight of Ren. KoR? What lamos! Granted, the mysticism regarding this group was mostly fan driven since TFA, but it was a missed opportunity imo.

Beyond that, I would say that Disney kept the ending VEERRRY safe, with the obvious intent of keeping options open to have any of these major and minor characters to appear in future SW content.

With all that said, I am still fairly optimistic that Disney will be more free now to re-shape the SW universe going forward, now that the Skywalker saga has ended (presumably).

[rcarlberg]

...now that the Skywalker saga has ended (presumably).

Here's what's happening, I'm quite sure.

Luke and Leia (and Alec Guinness) were getting a little long-in-tooth for a youth audience, which let's face it is where the money is. Disney will retool the SW franchise with younger stars (Baby Yoda, anyone?) in order to appeal to Gen Z and their coming offspring.

Those of us who were blown away in 1977 by the original film are no longer the prime demographic. We don't buy toys or posters or breakfast cereal or any of the other tie-ins that make the franchise uber-profitable.

[rcarlberg]

I hate how they force us to watch movies and pay for franchise stuff we arent interested in.

That was probably tongue in cheek, but here's what I really do dislike about the Star Wars and Star Trek franchises:

An entire generation (or two... or three) has grown up believing that explosions in space make a boom. That ships make jet engine noises in space, and bank to turn corners. That travel between planets or galaxies is like taking a drive to the grocery store. That a spaceship found abandoned in the desert, or lifted from the bottom of a bay, will start with the first turn of the key and fly without fuel. That the universe is full of alien species that have two eyes, two arms, two legs, and funny-shaped heads.

In other words, not just BAD science but demonstrably wrong science has been accepted by millions of people as likely, if not fact. This affects the amount of money we're willing to put into a "Space Force," and our illogical belief that after we "use up" Earth we can simply relocate to a new planet.

[Poisoned Youth]

Here's what's happening, I'm quite sure.

Luke and Leia (and Alec Guinness) were getting a little long-in-tooth for a youth audience, which let's face it is where the money is. Disney will retool the SW franchise with younger stars (Baby Yoda, anyone?) in order to appeal to Gen Z and their coming offspring.

Those of us who were blown away in 1977 by the original film are no longer the prime demographic. We don't buy toys or posters or breakfast cereal or any of the other tie-ins that make the franchise uber-profitable.

I think there will remain a mix of content, some which appeal to adults, some to kids. One can imagine they would follow the Marvel formula. All of the Marvel movies appeal to both kids and 'the kid in us'. At the same time, there's a lot of animated shows that appeal to kids, even portraying the superheroes as kids/teens.

In regards to SW, The Mandalorian (which I'm about to see) appears more geared towards "the kid in us" (baby Yoda not withstanding). Rogue One was also rather violent and "stressful" for a SW film. I have avoided most of the animated stuff (I watched Clone Wars for a while, but just couldn't keep my interest). The upcoming Obi-Wan series and the Rogue One spinoff could be worth a watch as well. Time will tell.

In other words, not just BAD science but demonstrably wrong science has been accepted by millions of people as likely, if not fact.

I think there's a general acceptance that these stories in space are fantasy more than "science fiction". I personally get more irked at historical movies and biopics that fictionalize events.

Oh, and then there are shows like NCIS, CSI etc. than all have computers that make bleeping sounds every time you click on something.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

I think it's entirely plausible to be a fan of the franchise, be a fan of the film, be a 'kid again', suspend disbelief, and yet still be critical at the same time. In fact, I give more credence to opinions and discussion on PE that show a person's ability to be both positive and critical.




Ultimately this is my take as well. I was 7 when Star Wars was released and it was a defining moment in my life, and eventually my career. I can't help but be personally "invested".

Looking back on the original trilogy, while it was "serious filmmaking" for its time, they were never serious films. There were always silly moments, and many times when you really have to ignore what would normally be common sense. But the movies were fun and imaginative.

And honestly, I was always (and still am) a closet prequels fan. And as fun and imaginative as they were (but much more silly), they had a few serious flaws that can't be ignored, like some god awful dialog and delivery, that really detract from the experience. But while others focus on Jar Jar, pod racing, midichlorians and Padakin, for ME the most poorly executed aspect of the prequel trilogy was the single most important story element - Anakin's character arc and descent to the dark side.

The sequel trilogy, in the end, is more nostalgia than anything else. It feels like an obligation for fans that grew up as kids knowing that Lucas envisioned 9 films. While TFA is certainly a "fun" film that feels like a worthy follow up to RotJ, there's no ignoring that the story is super familiar - not only because they essentially re-wrote A New Hope, but because even the non-parallel elements seems safe and familiar. But it works.

In regards to TLJ, I will stand by my criticism of the film. Changing the author of a story half way during the book is generally not going to generate great outcomes. Had it actually been something mind-blowing I'd have supported it. I like the film for the action sequences and the Snoke death scene.

As I mentioned earlier, RoS essentially makes most of the plot decisions in TLJ moot. You can remove much of the film without skipping a beat. RoS is "emotionally satisfying" I suppose. Sort of like TFA, it kinda "seems right". I think my biggest criticism of the film would be how the Jedi/Sith continue to be more OP. I felt the prequel trilogy did the best job of fleshing out the Jedi. TLJ and RoS took it to the Marvel level or even God-like. Beyond that, it seemed as if they couldn't really figure out what to do with most of the characters beyond Rey and Kylo - from the "main characters" to the Knight of Ren. KoR? What lamos! Granted, the mysticism regarding this group was mostly fan driven since TFA, but it was a missed opportunity imo.

Beyond that, I would say that Disney kept the ending VEERRRY safe, with the obvious intent of keeping options open to have any of these major and minor characters to appear in future SW content.

With all that said, I am still fairly optimistic that Disney will be more free now to re-shape the SW universe going forward, now that the Skywalker saga has ended (presumably).

You better be careful...being so level headed, balanced in thought, and un-butthurt by what electronic randos say you are liable to be kicked off the internet in short order.

[NogbadTheBad]

Saw the movie today, all I can say is it's not for me, i was dreadfully bored with the relentless can do attitude and morality plays. If only Jar Jar could have died horribly or there was an Ewok genocide i may have enjoyed it more.

[rcarlberg]

If only Jar Jar could have died horribly or there was an Ewok genocide i may have enjoyed it more.

I'd pay to see that!

[aith01]

[...] i was dreadfully bored with the relentless can do attitude and morality plays. If only Jar Jar could have died horribly or there was an Ewok genocide i may have enjoyed it more.

Yeah, definitely not for you then.

Star Wars has never been nihilistic or even realistic. It’s sweeping space opera with morality at its center. The Nazi parallels with the Empire/First Order (and the Final Order) were always thinly veiled at best, and I find them just as fitting now as they ever were (which is to say, quite fitting).

[rcarlberg]

Another problem I had with Star Wars, as well as other films like Independence Day, is that everybody dies -- except the 4 or 5 people we're supposed to care about. So it's a "feel-good" ending.

[NogbadTheBad]

Another problem I had with Star Wars, as well as other films like Independence Day, is that everybody dies -- except the 4 or 5 people we're supposed to care about. So it's a "feel-good" ending.

Yup, all these ships full of people are crashing out of the sky but hey the 4 stars all survived so happy day!

[aith01]

Yup, all these ships full of people are crashing out of the sky but hey the 4 stars all survived so happy day!

Well, it is called Star Wars, so I’m not surprised by there being casualties. I know, silly me.

[dropforge]

Straight from The First Order to The Final Order. WTF happened to the Ninth, Twenty-First and Seventy-Second Orders??!!

[rcarlberg]

The Final Order will be retroactively named The Second Order in the next series....

[NogbadTheBad]

& we'll be stunned to find out that Kylo Ren & Emperor Palpatine are not really dead, plus plenty of cameos from dead characters.

[aith01]

I forgot I was talking to the Snark Brigade. I’ll stop talking. Carry on, gents.

[Poisoned Youth]

Yeah, definitely not for you then.

Star Wars has never been nihilistic or even realistic. It’s sweeping space opera with morality at its center. The Nazi parallels with the Empire/First Order (and the Final Order) were always thinly veiled at best, and I find them just as fitting now as they ever were (which is to say, quite fitting).

FWIW, I always considered the original Star Wars to be rather introspective given the context of a "space opera". The Force was essentially a play on a few different new age beliefs and was intended to be very spiritual (as opposed to religious per se). And the human angle explored the notion that we are all capable of both "light" and "darkness", and that it's a personal struggle we all must face. This was touched on more in Empire (and a lesser extent in Jedi). In the prequels and sequels, these notions seemed more like they were on cruise control than developed further imo.

[aith01]

FWIW, I always considered the original Star Wars to be rather introspective given the context of a "space opera". The Force was essentially a play on a few different new age beliefs and was intended to be very spiritual (as opposed to religious per se). And the human angle explored the notion that we are all capable of both "light" and "darkness", and that it's a personal struggle we all must face. This was touched on more in Empire (and a lesser extent in Jedi). In the prequels and sequels, these notions seemed more like they were on cruise control than developed further imo.

I agree. Although I would argue that the sequels (especially TLJ) did go deeper into the inward struggle of light and dark and how that manifests externally and shapes the world(s) around the characters. For example, the “gray” morality of Benicio Del Toro’s character and how he advises Finn to not choose a side because to him they’re all part of the same “machine” — war profiteers make a living selling to both the bad guys and the good guys. But in the end, Finn rejects that worldview and chooses to fight for what he believes. I found that to be a thoughtful aspect of the story, and something that wasn’t explored in the original trilogy.

TRoS also explores the idea that regardless of where we come from (or who our families are), we have a choice whether to repeat the same mistakes or to learn from them and do better.

But the “morality plays” have always been at the center of Star Wars, imo. If someone’s not into that, then I’d wager that Star Wars probably isn’t their cup of tea.

I would take these over the prequels any day, although I do like most of Episode III still. Lucas was imaginative, but some of his dialog was so clumsy and the Anakin and Padme stuff was awkward to watch. Obi Wan is still consistently good though. I’m interested in seeing that spinoff series.

[Yodelgoat]

FWIW, I always considered the original Star Wars to be rather introspective given the context of a "space opera". The Force was essentially a play on a few different new age beliefs and was intended to be very spiritual (as opposed to religious per se). And the human angle explored the notion that we are all capable of both "light" and "darkness", and that it's a personal struggle we all must face. This was touched on more in Empire (and a lesser extent in Jedi). In the prequels and sequels, these notions seemed more like they were on cruise control than developed further imo.

I used to be quite irritated by the idea of the force... Then I learned the standard model of particle physics, and I have had to do some rethinking. Maybe George Lucas had nothing of the sort in mind, but he did a fair job of describing the Higgs. - Sort of. I can let that slip as an attempt. Kaku talked about the light Sabre in his book The physics of the impossible. Interesting read.

[rcarlberg]

I forgot I was talking to the Snark Brigade. I’ll stop talking. Carry on, gents.

What happened to stopping talking?

[aith01]

What happened to stopping talking?

Since Sean replied to me, with actual discussion points, I thought it would be rude not to say anything.

[frinspar]

I thought it was fuckin' rad. Lovely ending to the saga for a kid whose ass was in a theater seat in 1977.
Thanks, Star Wars.

[happytheman]

Count me in as yet another who enjoyed this final release..

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

It was quite a fitting end to the "journeys" of several characters, with a slingshot ending that could lead anywhere.