Request for Jazz Recommendations (Sorta Related to Danny Thompson Trio)

[Hal...]

I was listening to the Danny Thompson Trio and while I really enjoyed it I also missed there being a piano player. So I got to wondering who else might be similar.

If you haven't heard this, check it out:



Now, what I'm looking for is pretty specific, so I don't expect a lot of recommendations. These are the main points:

• the music is traditional... -ish. Definitely not looking for fusion; I get too easily seduced by it. Also not looking for something like hard bop, nor free jazz or avant-garde. Basically, either something from or in the style of jazz from the era of the late '60s to early '70s, which I know is limited given how so many of those guys went into fusion.
• the band could be a quartet or quintet but mostly acoustic and must include...

~ flautist, who's also known to play soprano sax and maybe even alto (tenor could be okay if used sparingly). Are there any jazz flautists who also play both alto & soprano sax?
~ electric guitar, with a clean tone, like in the video. And, no, none of the guys who first came to fame in the '40s, '50s, or early '60s interest me, unless they happen to appear on an album that fits the criteria.
~ acoustic piano. Electric piano's okay, but I'd prefer acoustic.
~ double bass. A full rhythm section is definitely okay, but not necessary.

• I might possibly have a preference for live albums but studio's okay, too.

I know I could research and cross-reference musicians and listen to stuff on YouTube but that could take a shit ton of time, given my limited knowledge, not to mention I'd probably be led down the path of fusion and the next thing I know, it's 16 hours later, I haven't eaten or showered, and I've run out of cigarettes.

I also know I could ask this question on PE and at least a handful of you have the knowledge to give me recommendations in minutes. Hence, this post.

And while I appreciate your help, please do not inundate me with lists. That gets overwhelming. One or two albums from each of you is sufficient because I can then go from there. I hope that doesn't make me seem like an ingrate or I'm being too demanding. I just need to know where to start.

Thanks in advance.

[Hal...]

Case in point: it took me over an hour to write that post because I've been listening to Larry Coryell's Spaces, Coryell, and Offering on YouTube.

And I've run out cigarettes and haven't eaten or showered, yet.

[pb2015]

Are there any jazz flautists who also play both alto & soprano sax?

Sonny Fortune and Gerry Niewood are two who might have played all of those, Joe Farrell and Dave Liebman played tenor often but also flute and soprano. Although famous for fusion records they have some solo stuff that might be what you are looking for.

[Dave (in MA)]

This doesn't meet all your requirements but how about:
PROPENSITY
Danny Thompson:
acoustic bass

Allan Holdsworth:
12-string acoustic guitar, electric guitar

John Stevens:
drums

Jools Toon (10:39)
It Could Have Been Mono (15:48)

It's an EP-length CD with two extended tracks.

[jake]

Frank Wess played Alto and Tenor and was a superb flautist.
Makanda Ken McIntyre played a ton of instruments but was mainly known for alto and flute ( he also played oboe, bassoon, bass clarinet and piano )

I'm thinking you would like the kind of music that used to go down at Bradley's in Manhattan in the 1980s-mid 1990s I think because of noise complaints, they almost never had drummers so the gigs tended to be piano and or guitar, bass and another soloist. You would see the likes of Lee Konitz, Frank Wess, Harold Danko, Jim Hall, Fred Hersch, Kirk Lightsey, Atilla Zoller and Cedar Walton.

For a similar vibe to the Danny Thompson Trio but no flute - just alto and a super smooth flugelhorn - how about this - Lee Konitz, Bill Frissell, Dave Holland and the dearly missed Kenny Wheeler. Timeless and just perfect.

[rcarlberg]

Now, what I'm looking for is pretty specific, so I don't expect a lot of recommendations. These are the main points:

• the music is traditional... -ish. Definitely not looking for fusion; I get too easily seduced by it. Also not looking for something like hard bop, nor free jazz or avant-garde. Basically, either something from or in the style of jazz from the era of the late '60s to early '70s, which I know is limited given how so many of those guys went into fusion.
• the band could be a quartet or quintet but mostly acoustic and must include...
• flautist, who's also known to play soprano sax and maybe even alto (tenor could be okay if used sparingly). Are there any jazz flautists who also play both alto & soprano sax?
• electric guitar, with a clean tone, like in the video. And, no, none of the guys who first came to fame in the '40s, '50s, or early '60s interest me, unless they happen to appear on an album that fits the criteria.
• acoustic piano. Electric piano's okay, but I'd prefer acoustic.
• double bass. A full rhythm section is definitely okay, but not necessary.
• I might possibly have a preference for live albums but studio's okay, too.

Bands that feature BOTH a guitarist and a pianist are slightly rare, as those two instruments play the same role in a band, and have overlapping ranges. That said, it does happen (John Abercrombie - "Minimal") - just not often in the music style you're requesting.

"MUST INCLUDE a flautist"? There are lots of flute players in the jazz world: Herbie Mann, Hubert Laws, Yusef Lateef, Gerry Niewood, Paul Horn, Tim Weisberg, Bud Shank, Joe Farrell, Charles Lloyd, James Newton, Jeremy Steig and Dave Valentin are a few names you could check out. A lot of these guys tend toward fusion, but you can poke around in their catalogs for stuff that might float your boat.

If you're willing to fudge a bit on the instrumentation, based on the Danny Thompson Trio clip you recommended I might point you toward:

• Brad Mehldau Trio and/or the Metheny/Mehldau Quartet
• E.S.T. (Esbjörn Svensson Trio)
• Ed Bickert
• Jim Hall
• Don Thompson
• Braff/Barnes Quartet
• Pat Metheny's later jazzier bands like the "Day Trip" band with Christian McBride & Antonio Sanchez
• Metheny's duets with Charlie Haden like "Missouri Sky" and "Burghausen"
• Ray Brown's various quartets
• Ron Carter's various quartets

Others as I think of them.

[hippypants]

The tone of Thompson's guitar reminds me of some of Mary Halvorson's work, which can be pretty varied, but you might check out some of her configurations.

Maybe some Bill Frisell might work too. His first album for ECM, In Line, is really great as are some of his others.

[JJ88]

Maybe Ralph Towner's Solstice on ECM, although it's acoustic guitar and no piano! An ECM supergroup line-up of sorts; Towner, Jon Christensen, Jan Garbarek and Eberhard Weber.

Oh perhaps Jim Hall's Concierto. Again a lot of big names on there.

Herbie Mann's Memphis Underground? Maybe a little too on the 'rock' side but it has flute and electric guitar.

[Hal...]

Sonny Fortune and Gerry Niewood are two who might have played all of those, Joe Farrell and Dave Liebman played tenor often but also flute and soprano. Although famous for fusion records they have some solo stuff that might be what you are looking for.

Can't say I've heard of Niewood. Fortune's name sounds familiar but I'm not sure.

I'm familiar with Joe Farrell and already found one song that very nearly fits. Chick Corea's on the album but he doesn't sound like he's playing on that particular song, which was written by John McLaughlin, who's also playing on it. So thanks for that.

Already familiar with Dave Liebman, too. I absolutely love his playing on side one of McLaughlin's My Goal's Beyond. And Liebman's probably the guy responsible for my love of the soprano sax.

[Hal...]

This doesn't meet all your requirements but how about:
PROPENSITY

You're right: it doesn't meet my requirements. What's funny tho is that I was listening to that very thing, yesterday, on YouTube before I fell down the Coryell rabbit hole.

[Hal...]

Frank Wess played Alto and Tenor and was a superb flautist.
Makanda Ken McIntyre played a ton of instruments but was mainly known for alto and flute ( he also played oboe, bassoon, bass clarinet and piano

Thanks for the names. I'll look into them.

I'm thinking you would like the kind of music that used to go down at Bradley's in Manhattan in the 1980s-mid 1990s

I've never heard of Bradley's. The only places I've been to were the Blue Note (Buddy Rich), The Bottom Line (David Torn Quartet), BB Kings (Hot Tuna), and I think the Village Vanguard (Max Roach?).

For a similar vibe to the Danny Thompson Trio but no flute - just alto and a super smooth flugelhorn - how about this - Lee Konitz, Bill Frissell, Dave Holland and the dearly missed Kenny Wheeler. Timeless and just perfect.

Yeah, that was good but I missed the piano. I should probably also revise my earlier comment regarding brass. Flugelhorn and the French horn are the only brass instruments I usually like. And I probably shouldn't dismiss trumpet out of hand. For me, it depends on the player. I think Chris Botti's timbre is amazing. I like Mark Isham's, too. But they're rarities. I usually dislike the trumpet and almost all brass; just can't stand the timbre. And I almost always abhor a muted trumpet. Altho, there again, it depends on the player. There's a Japanese jazz trumpeter - Toshinori Kondo - I saw in a documentary about Hiroshima & Nagasaki who was playing his trumpet through an electronics cabinet that made it sound a lot like a muted trumpet with some serious distortion. Reminded me a lot of Fripp's playing through synthesizers or Ponty's use of electronics.

Hey! I found it on YouTube. Altho, the trumpet isn't muted so much as distorted. The documentary is "White Light/Black Rain", which is an amazing movie in its own right, but here's the part I'm talking about with Kondo, which should start around 1:17:59...



I love woodwinds but I'm the same way with clarinets. I usually dislike the timbre but have heard some players that were amazing, like Richard Stoltzman. The first time I heard him, I didn't realize it was a clarinet. He sounded like a cross between a flute and a soprano sax. He's also classically trained and I've wondered if that might be the reason his timbre sounds so pure.

And, yeah, Kenny Wheeler was great. Diz is another guy I like. (boy, did that sound like a stupid comment )

[Hal...]

Bands that feature BOTH a guitarist and a pianist are slightly rare, as those two instruments play the same role in a band, and have overlapping ranges.

The reason I said quartet or quintet is because I love jazz & fusion bands with 2 or 3 lead instruments and I love the interplay between them. Duos generally do nothing for me. Trios usually leave me wanting. More than a quintet and I tend to lose focus and interest. I saw The Free Spirits in the mid '90s and watching the interaction between McLaughlin, DeFrancesco, and Chambers was as enjoyable as the music itself; it was fun! But they worked for me because Joey's like 2-3 musicians rolled into one and having a monster like Dennis on drums is like having a third lead.

"MUST INCLUDE a flautist"?

Yes. And piano and guitar.

There are lots of flute players in the jazz world... A lot of these guys tend toward fusion...

Exactly. Hence my dilemma. I've heard or heard of between 1/3 and 1/2 of those guys so thanks for the other names.

If you're willing to fudge a bit on the instrumentation...

I'm not. Like I said, I don't expect a lot of recommendations because I understand this is a very niche area. But that's all I'm looking for.

[jake]

Let me just confirm one thing - no drums/percussion?

[Hal...]

The tone of Thompson's guitar reminds me of some of Mary Halvorson's work, which can be pretty varied, but you might check out some of her configurations.

That's John McLaughlin on guitar.

Maybe some Bill Frisell

I've already started looking at some of Frisell's collaborations, as well as other's. Some of Coryell's stuff comes close as does Farrell's, but not close enough. Chick Corea's Circle was promising but then it's lacking a guitarist, not to mention it's too much in the realm of avant-garde. I've also started looking at Dave Liebman's oeuvre.

There's just so much to wade through for a gem here and there and I'm hoping to find a whole album of what I'm looking for.

Maybe Ralph Towner's Solstice on ECM, although it's acoustic guitar and no piano!

Pass.

An ECM supergroup line-up of sorts; Towner, Jon Christensen, Jan Garbarek and Eberhard Weber.

That is an amazing lineup. But, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't ECM usually associated with fusion and new age or world music, like Oregon or Dark?

Scratch that. I just looked through their artist list and I gave up about halfway through. They've got a lot musicians on their label, but it was nice seeing some familiar names I've fallen out of touch with like John Surman, Django Bates, and Shankar. Amusingly, the only person I recognized by sight was Zakir Hussain.

Herbie Mann's Memphis Underground? Maybe a little too on the 'rock' side but it has flute and electric guitar.

So, fusion. Alright. May have to check that out.

But here again is the problem. Just this morning I discovered some songs from an old, '70s fusion album by a black organist I'd never heard of before playing with a bunch of younger guys I had. Altho, the guitarist was completely new to me: Joe Beck. Never heard of him. Anyway, the songs were tight, funky, and rockin' out and the next thing I know, it's 45 minutes later and I'm thinking, "where did the time go?"

Fusion is like crack to me and I'm looking for weed.

[Hal...]

Let me just confirm one thing - no drums/percussion?

No, no. What I said was a band with "double bass. A full rhythm section is definitely okay, but not necessary." The rhythm section isn't nearly as important as the three lead instruments, so whether there's just bass or bass and drums is almost immaterial. And actually I guess it doesn't have to be double bass; electric is okay. I just don't want a sextet or beyond because that usually gets too crowded for my taste.

But that reminds me of something: are there any pianists who doubled on vibraphone? And that makes me realize that a band with vibes, flute, and guitar would be ultra groovy. In fact, I could swear I've seen a clip of some jazz band from the late '60s or early '70s with a band like that playing at a festival. Of course, I could be conflating two different bands. At my age, that's very possible and probably likely. lol

[jake]

This movie trailer might give you some ideas

[rcarlberg]

There's a Japanese jazz trumpeter - Toshinori Kondo - I saw in a documentary about Hiroshima & Nagasaki who was playing his trumpet through an electronics cabinet that made it sound a lot like a muted trumpet with some serious distortion. Reminded me a lot of Fripp's playing through synthesizers or Ponty's use of electronics.

Familiar with Jon Hassell and Ben Neill? Also check out David Myers maybe.

I think Chris Botti's timbre is amazing.

Wayyyy off topic, but Botti plays in Bill Bruford's B.L.U.E. (Bruford Levin Upper Extremities) in a kind of skronk punk jazz format. His solo stuff is soporific smooth jazz.

I usually dislike the timbre [of the clarinet] but have heard some players that were amazing, like Richard Stoltzman.

Another player with a soporific solo catalog. So what is it? Are you on the Kenny G or the David Torn end of the scale?

[rcarlberg]

But that reminds me of something: are there any pianists who doubled on vibraphone?

Gary Burton. Milt Jackson. Roy Ayers. Mike Maineri. Buddy Montgomery.

And that makes me realize that a band with vibes, flute, and guitar would be ultra groovy. In fact, I could swear I've seen a clip of some jazz band from the late '60s or early '70s with a band like that playing at a festival. Of course, I could be conflating two different bands.

Try this on for size then:

[rcarlberg]

[rcarlberg]

[rcarlberg]

I'm not [willing to fudge on the instrumentation].

You're closing the door on a lot of great music.

[StarThrower]

a band with vibes, flute, and guitar would be ultra groovy.

Hubert Laws - In The Beginning on CTI

Hubert Laws
Arranger, Composer, flute
Piano: Clare Fischer
Tenor Saxophone: Ronnie Laws
Guitar: Gene Bertoncini
Bass: Ron Carter
Drums: Steve Gadd
Vibraphone: Dave Friedman
Percussion: Airto

[rcarlberg]

Can't say I've heard of Niewood.

He died young, and left a small catalog -- most of which has never been reissued on CD. But IMHO well worth seeking out.

[jake]

How about one guy who can play all the instruments you asked about

[StarThrower]

No guitar, but too good to ignore.