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Thread: More Steve Hackett News!

  1. #51
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich View Post
    Genesis never played this Steve/Phil classic... Mad Mad Moon as well. Two big live hole's to these ears... Having said that I did meet Tony at the NEC in Birmingham in 98 and I told him I'd literally just flown in with my brother from San Francisco To catch the CAS tour. I told him I'd not missed a Genesis tour since my first in 76. Anyway he seemed impressed I'd flown in all that way to see the show. We made small talk and I told him he was my favorite writer in the band. He thanked me. I than asked if they ever considered playing Mad Mad Moon over the years, I told him it was my favorite Genesis tune... he looked up from signing an autograph for someone else standing there and said... no we never did that one was kind of perfect the way it was. I had the sense that he personally was so satisfied with the way MMM came out that he did not want to try and perform it live... my take anyway.
    That's a cool story. MMM is a great track!
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  2. #52
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    It's quite a complex song really; a lot of unusual chord changes and shifts in mood. Difficult to pull off live, I'd imagine. I remember Banks saying he wishes he'd played the piano solo better but yes, I think he's said a few times it's a favourite of his.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by rich View Post
    Genesis never played this Steve/Phil classic... Mad Mad Moon as well. Two big live hole's to these ears... Having said that I did meet Tony at the NEC in Birmingham in 98 and I told him I'd literally just flown in with my brother from San Francisco To catch the CAS tour. I told him I'd not missed a Genesis tour since my first in 76. Anyway he seemed impressed I'd flown in all that way to see the show. We made small talk and I told him he was my favorite writer in the band. He thanked me. I than asked if they ever considered playing Mad Mad Moon over the years, I told him it was my favorite Genesis tune... he looked up from signing an autograph for someone else standing there and said... no we never did that one was kind of perfect the way it was. I had the sense that he personally was so satisfied with the way MMM came out that he did not want to try and perform it live... my take anyway.
    I've also read interviews with Tony where he says his piano work in MMM wasn't something he was proud of.. even calling it "a mess"..

  4. #54
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    I've also read interviews with Tony where he says his piano work in MMM wasn't something he was proud of.. even calling it "a mess"..
    Yes, he mentions on the 2007 interview disc that the middle section is "not played as well as it should have been". Sounds fantastic to me!
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Yes, he mentions on the 2007 interview disc that the middle section is "not played as well as it should have been". Sounds fantastic to me!
    Me too! But he's often critical of his playing. He said the same thing about his playing in 'After The Ordeal', whereas I think his playing fits the piece perfectly. Perhaps he envisioned something even better?

  6. #56
    When I first heard Genesis I thought that some of Mr. Hackett's parts were keyboards (played, presumably, by Mr. Banks). I'd never heard a guitar sound like that before.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    Me too! But he's often critical of his playing. He said the same thing about his playing in 'After The Ordeal', whereas I think his playing fits the piece perfectly. Perhaps he envisioned something even better?
    Yes, it's worth noting sometimes that while Tony is critical of others, he is equally critical of himself. I think people tend to forget or overlook that sometimes. As for After The Ordeal, he strongly dislikes that entire piece and didn't want it on the album, but they compromised and allowed everything on (I recall it being said that PG wasn't crazy about the long instrumental section of Cinema Show either).
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  8. #58
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    It is just a matter of having seen this or that songs from "Seconds out" performed in one of the past genesis revisited tours. The only song that is not part of the bunch is "Robbery, assault and battery" so this idea will work although is not a novelty, from the contents aspect but it would be great to mimic the Boeing jet light feature!

    And to have two drummers onstage but this is the Steve Hackett band, not the Musical Box so that won't happen. It is a shame that a lot of those songs are horribly ruined by Rob Townshend's wind instruments.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    I've also read interviews with Tony where he says his piano work in MMM wasn't something he was proud of.. even calling it "a mess"..
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Yes, he mentions on the 2007 interview disc that the middle section is "not played as well as it should have been". Sounds fantastic to me!
    At the risk of thread-creep, and while I can't speak for Mr. Banks' expectations of his own technical execution, I can say that the piano on MMM is quite out-of-tune. The "unison drift" (as we call it in the trade) is particularly noticeable in the middle section starting around 2.38 (F#4 is particularly snarly, if anyone is interested in a specific example). I don't remember off the top of my head if there were any other tracks on the album that suffer the same flaw, but it's possible that the track was laid down during a session when the piano hadn't been recently touched up, and was deemed "good enough" in the days when studio time was still quite expensive.
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  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by hewhoknows View Post
    I did see the documentary and recall nothing being said there but after this length of time and the continued success of what Hackett has been doing, I was just curious whether anything had been said post the BBC history. It is sad that they cannot seem to acknowledge their past nor at a minimum comment on how well these performances are.
    I always get the impression that the "big 3" are basically retired and don't really care anymore. It is too bad that Tony, at the least, won't join Steve onstage for a song or two...it's not like he's terribly busy these days.

  11. #61
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    I think those 3 largely bought into the criticism (derision) of their 70s work, and don't have much affection for it as a result.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rajaz View Post
    It is just a matter of having seen this or that songs from "Seconds out" performed in one of the past genesis revisited tours. The only song that is not part of the bunch is "Robbery, assault and battery" so this idea will work although is not a novelty, from the contents aspect but it would be great to mimic the Boeing jet light feature!

    And to have two drummers onstage but this is the Steve Hackett band, not the Musical Box so that won't happen. It is a shame that a lot of those songs are horribly ruined by Rob Townshend's wind instruments.
    Then I'm not alone thinking that replacing (or doubling) the main keyboard solo lines with a very prominent sounding clarinet is not a good idea. I wouldn't call it "horribly ruined" but I don't like it (especially in the Genesis songs) and it significantly diminishes my listening pleasure from what would be otherwise a perfect band.

  13. #63
    What you call a clarinet is known to most as a soprano saxophone.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohnwayne View Post
    Several thoughts:

    ...
    3. Is there anything on Seconds Out that Hackett hasn't played live in the Genesis Revisited era? I'm thinking maybe just "Robbery Assault and Battery".
    ...
    that's what i was wondering. SO is just live versions of tunes he has already done. what's new here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    What you call a clarinet is known to most as a soprano saxophone.
    I wasn't sure, now I am. Maybe a clarinet would have been less intrusive... hard to tell from the sound as it seems heavily processed anyway. Still it doesn't change anything to my comment: to my ears It doesn't sound right in this context and I don't like it.
    Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 1 Week Ago at 12:51 PM.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I think those 3 largely bought into the criticism (derision) of their 70s work, and don't have much affection for it as a result.
    Tony has affection for it. Mike evidently does not. Tony has said so many times, especially in his most recent interview posted about a month ago. He was also quite complimentary of Steve's guitar playing in 'One For The Vine'.

  17. #67
    I actually like Rob Townshend's saxes and flutes. They add warmth to the music, to these ears.
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  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    When I first heard Genesis I thought that some of Mr. Hackett's parts were keyboards (played, presumably, by Mr. Banks). I'd never heard a guitar sound like that before.
    Funny you mention that. I had the same experience, especially on Trick & Wind. When I saw the band live in 1977 I noticed a lot of keyboard-like stuff was indeed played by Steve.
    (OT the same happened when listening for the first time to the first UK.)
    (OOT Simple Minds New Gold Dream had that same effect on me.)

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Krautman View Post
    Then I'm not alone thinking that replacing (or doubling) the main keyboard solo lines with a very prominent sounding clarinet is not a good idea. I wouldn't call it "horribly ruined" but I don't like it (especially in the Genesis songs) and it significantly diminishes my listening pleasure from what would be otherwise a perfect band.
    So do you mean ALL of his work with Steve (he asked incredulously) or are you referring to only the obvious example of "Firth of Fifth" wherein the original flute solo (played by Peter) is being taken by soprano sax?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwe4r8RrSsY (go to 3:30)

    That is about the only time I would choose differently if I were the band leader (I play flute so I am biased). The original flute solo IS pretty darn iconic in Firth.
    And Rob of course plays flute throughout the concerts so clearly, he could stick with the original concept if he wanted to but every time i see him it is the sax. Steve seems content with it being done on sop sax

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    What you call a clarinet is known to most as a soprano saxophone.
    Et voilà !

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  21. #71
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    I like what Rob Townshend brings to the table. The only place I think the texture of the soprano sax grates on me a bit is in that mysterious little synth/tron interlude in Blood on the Rooftops.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill g View Post
    Tony has affection for it. Mike evidently does not. Tony has said so many times, especially in his most recent interview posted about a month ago. He was also quite complimentary of Steve's guitar playing in 'One For The Vine'.
    I haven't kept up with him, so he may be saying a few nice things now, following decades of silence (at best.) I'm not terribly convinced.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotron View Post

    Bien joué
    Let's leave the baby kangaroos out of this.
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  24. #74
    Member Mr.Krautman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gizmotron View Post
    So do you mean ALL of his work with Steve (he asked incredulously) or are you referring to only the obvious example of "Firth of Fifth" wherein the original flute solo (played by Peter) is being taken by soprano sax?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwe4r8RrSsY (go to 3:30)

    That is about the only time I would choose differently if I were the band leader (I play flute so I am biased). The original flute solo IS pretty darn iconic in Firth.
    And Rob of course plays flute throughout the concerts so clearly, he could stick with the original concept if he wanted to but every time i see him it is the sax. Steve seems content with it being done on sop sax
    I never said or meant ALL (that was the previous poster's opinion, to whom I reacted) and it doesn't really bother me in Steves's own songs but Firth is a good exemple where the sax doesn't fit and also Cinema Show where some of the main melodic lines (originally played on keys) are replaced (or doubled) by the (harsh sounding) soprano saxophone (got it right now ?), it just doesn't sound right or good to my ears. But I guess this is Steve's choice since unlike the Musical Box (the band) he apparently doesn't want to strictly emulate all the original sounds (though his guitar play/sound is VERY close to the originals). I can’t be completely formal but I don't think Genesis ever used saxes in their songs...
    Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 1 Week Ago at 09:37 PM.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Krautman View Post
    I never said or meant ALL (that was the previous poster's opinion, to whom I reacted) and it doesn't really bother me in Steves's own songs but Firth is a good exemple where the sax doesn't fit and also Cinema Show where some of the main melodic lines (originally played on keys) are replaced (or doubled) by the (harsh sounding) soprano saxophone (got it right now ?), it just doesn't sound right or good to my ears. But I guess this is Steve's choice since unlike the Musical Box (the band) he apparently doesn't want to strictly emulate all the original sounds (though his guitar play/sound is VERY close to the originals). I can’t be completely formal but I don't think Genesis ever used saxes in their songs...
    I genuinely wasn’t sure if you were referring to all of them. Thanks for clarifying.

    I really like Steve’s approach in general and I feel that artists should do what they feel. But, to me, the replacement of the flute in Firth is a poor choice—for my tastes.

    But I would never miss a show of course. The guy gets everything right, pretty much.

    (Speaking of flute, I always got a kick out of the very accurate flute sounds (melllotron) that Tony used on the Trick album such as in Mad Man Moon. I always felt it was very clear that Tony was saying to the recently-departed Pete “we don’t really need you anymore...nah nah, nana nah...”)

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