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Thread: Vaisseau monde (for Poil, zeuhl & Yoshida fans)

  1. #26
    ^ Udi, here's what it basically says:

    "I don't know or quite understand this so-called 'avant-garde' thing, and frankly I don't wanna know or understand 'cause I dislike it in the first place."

    The guy doesn't even know or understand what a "review" is; its motivations, functions, compositions or intentions. If anyone would like to know why "prog-rock" went to shits, then conduct a survey to check on the percentage of followers sharing this very same attitude. It's probably one of the most obtuse examples or even definitions of philistine ignorance I ever read - to the point of presenting ignorance as something purportedly "positive".
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  2. #27
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Maybe its the fact English is not my mother tongue or maybe something was lost in translation - I do not understand this review or what it means to say
    care to clarify please ?
    Sorry, that review is hard to understand even if you are a native German Speaker.

    I believed it to be a very positive review until I read the last line.

    Basically the Reviewer states that he can't find any kind of connection to this Album
    which he sees as an Artists Performance that you either like or not, he clearly doesn't.

    He also makes very clear that he doesn't want to connect to stuff like this and never will.
    ( a bit ignorant Point of view)

    In defense of my fellow reviewers at Babyblaue Seiten the two other Reviews on that Album
    have very high Ratings ( 13/15, 14/15).

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    It's probably one of the most obtuse examples or even definitions of philistine ignorance I ever read - to the point of presenting ignorance as something purportedly "positive".
    He's right you know: sorrow is knowledge - they who know the most must mourn the deepest over the fatal truth - as beloved Manfred puts it.

    I've got some similar treatment, when I dared suggest at the "seminal prog" thread that having actually listened to the widely acclaimed records of a specific genre gives you a deeper and better understanding of it. Some people were offended - "what, it's not just about like and dislike?". Like they were born with an innate, personal taste that hasn't been influenced by current culture or any exterior factors.

    Historical context and significance? No, we don't want to know about it. Irrelevant. I like it because I like it. I dislike it mainly and mostly because I dislike it.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    In defense of my fellow reviewers at Babyblaue Seiten
    Most of whom are absolutely excellent and some of the most interesting ones I get to read online, disregarding whether or not I agree with them. Which is exactly why I've come to react with a puzzle at how there are a few "newbies" in there who either don't seem to quite grasp the formal demands of their task or perhaps even don't care to bother with the task to begin with. Critique is not primarily about whether or not you yourself "like" something - it's about enlightened argumentation pro- et con.

    The recent additions to reviews on Guerilla Toss is another example: https://www.babyblaue-seiten.de/inde...eviews&alpha=g

    Just to be clear; I'm not a big Guerilla Toss-fan myself. But this is completely beside the point. Stating how something "[…] sounds like random noise to me" has nothing whatsoever to contribute in terms of discourse on an artpiece. It gets to be plain obvious how these responses are triggered by provocations at how artistic expressions unfamiliar to them can have any appeal to begin with, and there's no signal here that they even took time to actually read what others have written before them. This is the kind of lackluster practice you'll note over at Imdb, where reviewers tend to open their contribution by saying "I don't undertand why so many people like this film!"

    For heaven's sake - read what those "many people" write themselves, then, so that you'll might get to understand a bit more!
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  5. #30
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    In 50 years his review might be funny. Well, what are the odds...

    Scrotum - go to the Beatles thread and read a Norwegian review I posted of a Beatles single, written in a Bergen newspaper in the beginnig of the 60'ties. That is funny !
    I have a review of The Who 'My Generation' from the same reviewer, just as crazy, that I didn't post (because noone here can read it).

    link added to the Beatles review
    https://www.progressiveears.org/foru...l=1#post948291


    The Who:

    TheWho-i-Norge2.jpg

    Reviewer B.K. was Bjørn Kolstad, born 1923 wrote for 'Bergens Tidene'. Should probably be read out loud in the Bergensdialect .
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Zeuhlmate; 1 Week Ago at 11:07 AM.

  6. #31
    Member thedunno's Avatar
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    Excellent review! It confirms that Le Grand Sbam is exactly my cuppa

    I like babyblaue-Seiten. It is usually the first place I go to looking for reviews.

  7. #32
    Despite my high anticipation ever since they shared a stage with Present and I preordered it this album doesn't click for me
    Will try some more cause lots of friends like it a lot

  8. #33
    I have no problem with somebody "not getting" something that for me is an instant favorite like Sbam, or even thinking it's random noise when I can clearly see/hear the logic and inner melodies going on all the time. Actually what I like about it is that it is so thoroughly composed but seems/sounds "loose".
    I have no problem with the review even though it is factually wrong about the music being random.

    I often find myself "not getting" stuff that people with similar tastes rave about' for instance "Polite Refusal". When that happens I make a bit more effort, but not everything is for everyone.

  9. #34
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Despite my high anticipation ever since they shared a stage with Present and I preordered it this album doesn't click for me
    Will try some more cause lots of friends like it a lot
    I'm in this boat too.

    The first track is fantastic, but the rest of the album loses all that is bright and wonderful about what is presented in that first track. It's still good, of course, but it doesn't illuminate my utensil draw, if you know what I mean. I'll keep listening of course, but I fear this will land square in the 'solid' for moi.
    No humor please, we're skittish.

    Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Chang Ba View Post
    The first track is fantastic, but the rest of the album loses all that is bright and wonderful
    AH, for me it just gets better.

  11. #36
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Yeah, listened to it again yesterday and the whole thing is great for me.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  12. #37
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Yeah, listened to it again yesterday and the whole thing is great for me.
    +1
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  13. #38
    It's a great album that demands multiple listens - I've played the vinyl 5-6 times and still haven't settled in the music. The complexity is mind-boggling.

    Who does music like that in our days? Hats-off to these lads!

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Yehuda Kotton View Post
    I have no problem with somebody "not getting" something that for me is an instant favorite
    Me neither. What I react to is some reviewers' tendency to troll out one's ignorance as part of a demonstrative gesture; "So this is that 'avant' thing you keep talking about? Not for me, 'cause I can't like it! Isn't that what you 'avants' say about my Flower Kings? Well, I can dislike stuff too!"

    When I went to university and took my courses in literature, there was once a dispute between a student and an (associate) professor on what effectively made out the main difference between a short essay about an artwork and an actual recension of it. The student argued consistently that a recension shouldn't have to present an inlook onto personal motives and general perceptions on the part of the subjective reviewer, whereas the scholar turned it way around; an essay confines strictly to the topic at hand and can allow for questions to be left unanswered, but the recension is expected to reveal levels of ability and overall habitus in its sphere of interpretation. To write a review starting off with "I admit to not knowing anything about this, but I claim an opinion nonetheless" turns the screw on a reviewer's unauthorized perspective as subject, thereby emphasizing his/her human self as object for review instead of the artwork.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  15. #40
    BTW, the guy in question has removed the rating from his review. I'd say it's certainly fair to not come to terms with an artwork and question points of its intended appeal. And further more it's also the prerogative of a listener to nurture heartfealt antipathy towards something which simply doesn't aappeal to him/her on intended grounds, even if the nature of such a work provokes him for various reasons. But still, that kind of antipathy doe not warrant grading.

    I'm listening to Vaisseau Monde right now. It's extreme and radical, it's intentionally bizarre and grotesque - and it's also completely musical. The PoiL folx have signalled their need to explore ever on, either through their collab with Ni, the UkanDanz project or a piece like this one here. Is it fringe? Absolutely. But if you immerse in its internal universe, there's something to potentially be had even for the uninitiated.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I'm listening to Vaisseau Monde right now. It's extreme and radical, it's intentionally bizarre and grotesque - and it's also completely musical.
    But if you immerse in its internal universe, there's something to potentially be had even for the uninitiated.
    I gave it another go today
    spastic
    Still irritating...

  17. #42
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    I gave it another go today
    spastic
    Still irritating...
    That's part of the appeal for me.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  18. #43
    Honestly I like Poil but their appeal is more on stage then studio albums

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Honestly I like Poil but their appeal is more on stage then studio albums
    I can see that. If anything, there's simply so much sound on their releases that it gets to be almost impossible to sit through entire runs. I don't think I ever managed to listen to the whole of Brossaklitt in a single setting.

    Listening to X by Schnellertollermeier right now, and that stuff is just as intense as PoiL but it seeks some pretty obvious directions - making it easier to stick with the flow of it. Immensely powerful stuff, btw.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  20. #45
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Sus by PoiL is very enjoyable album from beginning to end. I believe it was my second most listened album last year. Easily their most coherent and best album so far.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  21. #46
    ^Yes, Sus is an absolute masterwork. And even the portions of intensity are sorta "sectioned" so that you get to digest the structure properly.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  22. #47
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Brossaklitt and sus are both excellent, I listen to them both straight through a lot.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  23. #48
    ^ You're such a goddarn avant-weenie, Ian.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  24. #49
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

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