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Thread: New YES release - From A Page- O Wakeman/Benoit era

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    One of the main questions I ask as a listener is: What is the purpose of this song? What is the songwriter trying to convey? Here I have no idea. It is music, of some sort, but seems entirely without purpose or direction,
    I asked the same question after I listened a few times yesterday. I think there are good parts but liked the song less after the third and fourth listen in part because it doesn't say much to me.

  2. #52
    ugh. this should be a no brainer purchase for me but I just can't justify it in this format thru Burning shed. Near $26 dollars plus near $8 in shipping for an album I already have plus 4 new songs. So $34 for 4 songs. That's the kind of deal that makes a person not feel guilty ripping mp3s from youtube as soon as the tracks show up there.

    Crazy thought: was Lyon really the only show professionally recorded during the 3 years this lineup was active? Was there nothing this could be bundled with that fans of this lineup don't already own?

    That said, I'm ready with my wallet when these tracks are released in a sensible format.

    ugh.
    Last edited by jamesmanzi; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:08 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    ugh. this should be a no brainer purchase for me but I just can't justify it in this format thru Burning shed. Near $26 dollars plus near $8 in shipping for an album I already have plus 4 new songs. So $34 for 4 songs. That's the kind of deal that makes a person not feel guilty ripping mp3s from youtube as soon as the tracks show up there.

    Crazy thought: was Lyon really the only show professionally recorded during the 3 years this lineup was active? Was there nothing this could be bundled with that fans of this lineup don't already own?

    That said, I'm ready with my wallet when these tracks are released in a sensible format.

    ugh.
    I agree. It's funny, us folks will often complain about how no one buys physical music product anymore and then we are offered such an 'attractive' proposition as this, with no option to stream or download. I guess it serves us right

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    I think it's terrible.
    I'm enjoying it, but I don't think it's going to crack my...oh, let's say top 75 Yes songs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    Helpless songwriting, terrible lyrics and dreadful production. One of the main questions I ask as a listener is: What is the purpose of this song? What is the songwriter trying to convey? Here I have no idea. It is music, of some sort, but seems entirely without purpose or direction, beyond trying to sound vaguely, superficially Yessy.
    Interesting questions. As a listener, I've rarely asked "What is the purpose of this song?" But we all listen to music in different ways. I generally ask, "Do I enjoy listening to this song?" However, without knowing what's in the mind of Oliver Wakeman or the rest of Yes, perhaps I can address the question of purpose.

    What is the songwriter (seemingly Wakeman) trying to convey? The lyrics seem fairly obvious: it's a song about parental love, particularly the anxieties of parental love. What is the song's purpose or direction? What do you mean by direction? It has a fairly standard structure as a pop song, in terms of parts and harmonic resolution. That is, it has direction. Purpose? I don't know. Perhaps it's purpose was to be entertaining.

    Is the song "trying to sound vaguely, superficially Yessy"? That's a difficult question. I think any song with Howe, Squire and White on it is going to end up sounding superficially Yessy just because Howe performing like Howe, Squire performing like Squire and White performing like White is a chunk of what makes music sound Yessy. So that may be accidental rather than on purpose. Was Wakeman writing to fit a Yes form? I wouldn't be surprised if he was, but I don't particularly hear it. It sounds to me like his compositions on Ravens & Lullabies, like Oliver Wakeman sounding Oliver Wakeman-y. It sounds less like it's trying to sound superficially Yessy than I thought it might.

    Oliver's dad recently commented on Anderson Rabin Wakeman's one (not quite released) song, saying: "“Fragile Touch” was a nice enough song, but it wasn’t what I wanted to hear from Yes. I wanted to hear some great playing and what I call some surprises. You go back to “Close to the Edge” and it’s full of surprises. You’ve got no idea where it’s going to go once it starts. That, to me, is what Yes music is." I was reminded of that quote listening to "To the Moment". I rather like "Fragile/Touch", more than "To the Moment", but I think Rick's description of it would fit "To the Moment".

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
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  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve983 View Post
    I agree. It's funny, us folks will often complain about how no one buys physical music product anymore and then we are offered such an 'attractive' proposition as this, with no option to stream or download. I guess it serves us right
    It is expensive. I don't like that, but I understand the route they've taken for a niche product. I think we will see cheaper ways of getting this downstream, but if you want it now, you've got to pay a premium price.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    but if you want it now, you've got to pay a premium price.

    Henry
    I get what you're saying, but the reality is if one wants it now, one needs only wait until the tracks are online somewhere to grab them. That's a reality that artists need to consider when deciding how to release music.

    There's always going to be people that are going to DL "illegally." But there are also always going to be people willing to pay, and those people shouldn't be made to feel like they're being shafted.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesmanzi View Post
    I get what you're saying, but the reality is if one wants it now, one needs only wait until the tracks are online somewhere to grab them. That's a reality that artists need to consider when deciding how to release music.

    There's always going to be people that are going to DL "illegally." But there are also always going to be people willing to pay, and those people shouldn't be made to feel like they're being shafted.
    Sure. If it's cheaper, more people will buy it, but you make less money per unit. You have to pick price points: what offerings, when, at what price. The possibility of piracy is ever present. I presume Yes's management have thought about this and Yes's management have a lot more experience in the music industry than I do. This looks in the same ballpark as other niche releases, presumably because the economics are the same.

    If you want value for money, you can get Peter Banks's Harmony In Diversity's The Complete Recordings, which is 6 CDs, for under £14. I highly recommend it.

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    Oliver's dad recently commented on Anderson Rabin Wakeman's one (not quite released) song, saying: "“Fragile Touch” was a nice enough song, but it wasn’t what I wanted to hear from Yes. I wanted to hear some great playing and what I call some surprises. "
    Yet Rabin says it was Wakeman and Anderson who said they should create a song based on the television score.

  9. #59
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    A thought...why couldn't they have 'bundled' it with both versions of Fly From Here? Would have made far more sense to me.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    I think it's terrible. Helpless songwriting, terrible lyrics and dreadful production. One of the main questions I ask as a listener is: What is the purpose of this song? What is the songwriter trying to convey? Here I have no idea. It is music, of some sort, but seems entirely without purpose or direction, beyond trying to sound vaguely, superficially Yessy.
    You've heard the whole thing? All the new songs?

  11. #61
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    That YouTube preview sounds much better than anything on Heaven & Earth. I like that tune.
    Last edited by timmy; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:50 PM.
    "Why is it when these great Prog guys get together, they always want to make a Journey album?"
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  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    "“Fragile Touch” was a nice enough song, but it wasn’t what I wanted to hear from Yes. I wanted to hear some great playing and what I call some surprises. You go back to “Close to the Edge” and it’s full of surprises. You’ve got no idea where it’s going to go once it starts. That, to me, is what Yes music is." I was reminded of that quote listening to "To the Moment". I rather like "Fragile/Touch", more than "To the Moment", but I think Rick's description of it would fit "To the Moment".

    Henry
    Henry, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I really like that Rick Wakeman quote, and I agree with him. Before I got behind the computer and saw the video for To the Moment, I had been on a little road trip with my wife, and one of the albums we listened to in the car was Close to the Edge. Now, I have listened to that album on a regular basis since I was in my early teens. I know every nook and cranny of those songs. And yet it always gives me immense pleasure to listen to, and it never ceases to fascinate. The best Yes music has the unique ability to offer up MORE discoveries the more you listen to it.
    Needless to say, compared to Close to the Edge, or And You And I, To the Moment falls very flat. They aren't really comparable at all. To the Moment is generic rock/pop dressed up in some very superficially applied prog trappings. Of course, it would be unfair to expect Yes to make something like their classic music this late in their career. But that to me begs the question: How much should we expect from Yes? Where should the bar be set for whether something is release-worthy. I would still find it worthwhile to buy Yes music if it was on par with, say, Tormato, their weakest 70s album. But Heaven & Earth, and this Oliver Wakeman tune, aren't even close to Tormato in musical inventiveness or spirited playing. For all its shortcomings, Tormato still offered surprises, beauty, energy and some degree of vision. These late offerings have none of those qualities. And I am not a modern-Yes hater. Fly From Here was to me the best release from the Yes camp since ABWH. The suite was sublime, as was Life on a Film Set, and the production was (finally) back up to professional standards. And Horn coaxed good performances from all the musicians, which I realize may have been a challenging job. But it shows that they still have it in them, or did then, at least.
    But: When they release something as generic, life-less and vision-less as this, I feel somewhat betrayed as a life-long fan. I simply expect very much more from something bearing the holy Yes logo.

  13. #63
    Mod or rocker? Mocker. Frumious B's Avatar
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    Well I am clearly going soft because I like the song and I am eager to hear more.
    "It was a cruel song, but fair."-Roger Waters

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    Fly From Here was to me the best release from the Yes camp since ABWH. The suite was sublime, as was Life on a Film Set, and the production was (finally) back up to professional standards.
    Hold it... Talk's production was professional.

  15. #65
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    If lifeless and sterile is professional production, then correct, Talk is a stellar professional production.
    No one plans to take the path that brings you lower

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by MudShark22 View Post
    If lifeless and sterile is professional production, then correct, Talk is a stellar professional production.
    I didn't say stellar production; I said professional production. Lifeless?

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    I didn't say stellar production; I said professional production. Lifeless?
    Yeah, no idea where the "lifeless" allegations come from. I just listened to it in my car a week ago, and it sounds fine to me. Certainly not what I'd call lifeless.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Yeah, no idea where the "lifeless" allegations come from. I just listened to it in my car a week ago, and it sounds fine to me. Certainly not what I'd call lifeless.
    Do you have the deluxe version with the Squire parts included? (I didn't like that I had to buy Steven Wilson's box set to get it.)

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    Do you have the deluxe version with the Squire parts included? (I didn't like that I had to buy Steven Wilson's box set to get it.)
    I'm confused... You're referring to the Talk album right? I thought Squire was already included on it.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    I'm confused... You're referring to the Talk album right? I thought Squire was already included on it.
    He's just making a joke about the apparent proliferation of alternate versions of Yes albums.

    However, some of the bass on Talk is not by Squire. Some may be by Rabin, some may be by Squire but extensively digitally manipulated by Rabin, one report says that most of it is actually Sherwood (Sherwood has denied this).

    Henry
    Where Are They Now? Yes news: http://www.bondegezou.co.uk/wh_now.htm
    Blogdegezou, the accompanying blog: http://bondegezou.blogspot.com/

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Frumious B View Post
    Well I am clearly going soft because I like the song and I am eager to hear more.
    I'm with you.. so much about this line up I really liked.. It was a nice fresh injection into the life of Yes. No question the concern for Jon at that time was real.. but if you go back to that early interview with Benoit it was clear this was going to be a temporary line up.. which obviously it was.. but for different reasons that Benoit stated.. That first tour where they shook up the set list was brilliant.. I had high hopes for studio work.. and I've always been firmly on the side of the equation that enjoyed FFH but didn't enjoy how Oliver was pushed aside.. I'm thoroughly looking forward to hear anything that was done in the studio from this line up..

  22. #72
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    If only they had pulled another show from the To The Present tour archive and put it with these new tracks, it would have made a lot more sense. We know they recorded many other shows because on the UK tour you could buy a USB stick or download which I did for Hammersmith. Of course that would have meant more work to produce and mix. The original Live in Lyon set may well be out of print but surely everyone who wants to buy this has already got the Lyon set so I think this is taking the piss to be quite honest.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    Hold it... Talk's production was professional.
    Obviously I wasn't talking about Talk, but a lot of what came after. Like so many classic rock bands who lose their major label contract, Yes have suffered from insufficient recording budgets and a lack of production supervision in the later stages of their career.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Does anyone know how much they charge(vinyl) for shipping to US?
    I don't have an account and don't want to open one if it's too much money.
    Shipping for the LP is $9.72. With VAT deducted it was $31.12 total. Mine hasn’t shipped yet. I ordered on the first day and they said it was in stock. I guess I’m a captive audience.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    Obviously I wasn't talking about Talk, but a lot of what came after.
    Not obvious when you wrote "since ABWH" in the previous sentence, and I assumed you mean since then for production as well as saying FFH was your favorite Yes album since then.

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