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Thread: Secret Chiefs 3 Malkhut

  1. #1

    Secret Chiefs 3 Malkhut

    Secret Chiefs 3 disk from the collection is now available for individual purchase
    Any of you get the John Zorn Book Beri’ah box set,and could share their impressions ?


  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Any of you get the John Zorn Book Beri’ah box set,and could share their impressions ?]
    On the Malkhut specifically? I think it's brilliant. If you like Xaphan, you'll like this. Dense arrangements in a variety of styles. I like Zorn and the Angels series, but I'm an even bigger fan of SC3. So, I'm a bit biased. I attended the premiere of this at The Stone back in the day (and the premiere of Xaphan).

  3. #3
    This is maybe the only SC3 release that didn’t really click for me.
    Sounded somewhat predictable without much innovation

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    This is maybe the only SC3 release that didn’t really click for me.
    Sounded somewhat predictable without much innovation
    I have to agree, sadly. Enjoyable but nothing really special.

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    My only exposure to this group is the album Book of Souls which sounds like the soundtrack to a tongue-in-cheek computer game.
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  7. #7
    I'm curious what some of you think is a better Book of Angels album... IMO, both SC3 albums are far beyond any other artists in that series.

  8. #8
    Member Lebofsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Sounded somewhat predictable without much innovation
    I feel like both Xaphan/Malkhut albums have their pros and cons. But, as somebody who has their brain wrapped around the scores from both albums... I'm not sure what you find lacking in the innovation department on the new one.

    Maybe I'm biased, or unsure what you mean. But playing the Xaphan material for me is a matter of reading off basic lead sheets and using a single 5-octave midi controller. Maybe two if I'm being fancy on "Barakiel." But for Malkhut I'm hanging on for dear life scanning multi-page scores for most of the songs, and require no less than a piano, a wurlitzer electric piano, and two 5-octave midi controllers to properly pull it off live. Xaphan is great, but it's more of a jam album. Malkhut contains some of the most difficult material I ever had to digest and perform for SC3.

    - Matt

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    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    I feel like both Xaphan/Malkhut albums have their pros and cons. But, as somebody who has their brain wrapped around the scores from both albums... I'm not sure what you find lacking in the innovation department on the new one.

    Maybe I'm biased, or unsure what you mean. But playing the Xaphan material for me is a matter of reading off basic lead sheets and using a single 5-octave midi controller. Maybe two if I'm being fancy on "Barakiel." But for Malkhut I'm hanging on for dear life scanning multi-page scores for most of the songs, and require no less than a piano, a wurlitzer electric piano, and two 5-octave midi controllers to properly pull it off live. Xaphan is great, but it's more of a jam album. Malkhut contains some of the most difficult material I ever had to digest and perform for SC3.

    - Matt
    Nice insight.

    As someone who is on the inside with this whole Masada thing, what are the significant differences between the Book Of Angels series and the Book Of Beriah series? From a purely listener perspective, musically they don't seem altogether different to warrant the separation in the two different books.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Chang Ba View Post
    As someone who is on the inside with this whole Masada thing, what are the significant differences between the Book Of Angels series and the Book Of Beriah series? From a purely listener perspective, musically they don't seem altogether different to warrant the separation in the two different books.
    Disclaimer: I wasn't around for the recording of Xaphan, but I sure played it a bunch live. From my perspective (i.e. keyboard monkey directed by Trey) and knowing the history a bit, the books are very similar - basically tunes jotted down as lead sheets in Zorn's own handwriting that, in the case with SC3, Trey would arrange to the nth degree. If there's one big difference is that on Xaphan, Trey was far more adherent to the original forms as notated by Zorn, but he gave himself more creative leeway on Malkhut when expanding the Zorn charts into full blown arrangements.

    - Matt

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    I'm not sure what you find lacking in the innovation department on the new one.
    Maybe I'm biased, or unsure what you mean. Malkhut contains some of the most difficult material I ever had to digest and perform for SC3. - Matt
    I din’t mean to out down or belittle the enormous amount of talent skill and effort put into this album
    But i find it sort of same as Xaphan
    Now that i think of it i realize i feel so due to the fact Zorn is the composer
    I prefer the stuff Trey writes

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    i find it sort of same as Xaphan
    Now that i think of it i realize i feel so due to the fact Zorn is the composer
    I prefer the stuff Trey writes
    I totally get it. I find it a testament to Zorn's writing that his voice shines through while letting there be enough space for the individual bands to do their thing. He also imparts a lot of information efficiently within what seems like minimal charts. So it's all very Zorn-ish, which I dig, but if you prefer Trey's writing, there's nothing wrong with that.

    I should say that, personally, one of my favorite bits on the new album is the second half of Shadim, where Trey took 5 notes out of one of the "head" melodies and goes deep into exploring various tessellation patterns with them. That's all Trey vision and composition at that point. And totally crazy to play live. We only did it twice at the Stone (within days of learning the tune) and haven't dared try again since. Of course Ches and Kenny nailed those parts no problem.

    I wish I had news about other SC3 albums coming down the pike, but I don't. I heard one of them (almost complete) and saw the artwork. So I know it exists.

    - Matt

  13. #13
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    Disclaimer: I wasn't around for the recording of Xaphan, but I sure played it a bunch live. From my perspective (i.e. keyboard monkey directed by Trey) and knowing the history a bit, the books are very similar - basically tunes jotted down as lead sheets in Zorn's own handwriting that, in the case with SC3, Trey would arrange to the nth degree. If there's one big difference is that on Xaphan, Trey was far more adherent to the original forms as notated by Zorn, but he gave himself more creative leeway on Malkhut when expanding the Zorn charts into full blown arrangements.

    - Matt
    Thanks, that's basically what I assumed.

    If pressed I would probably pick Malkhut as my favorite, but both are the top/near the top of their respective series to me.
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  14. #14
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    I totally get it. I find it a testament to Zorn's writing that his voice shines through while letting there be enough space for the individual bands to do their thing. He also imparts a lot of information efficiently within what seems like minimal charts. So it's all very Zorn-ish, which I dig, but if you prefer Trey's writing, there's nothing wrong with that.

    I should say that, personally, one of my favorite bits on the new album is the second half of Shadim, where Trey took 5 notes out of one of the "head" melodies and goes deep into exploring various tessellation patterns with them. That's all Trey vision and composition at that point. And totally crazy to play live. We only did it twice at the Stone (within days of learning the tune) and haven't dared try again since. Of course Ches and Kenny nailed those parts no problem.

    I wish I had news about other SC3 albums coming down the pike, but I don't. I heard one of them (almost complete) and saw the artwork. So I know it exists.

    - Matt
    Wikipedia (obviously a very reliable source) still lists both Book Of Souls Folio B and a Holy Vehm album as to be released in 2017 (as well as mentions two others [the third Book Of Truth entry and a 'From the Peacock Emerges a Fountain of Truth'] still TBA, which I guess means they are being planned?).

    I do hope Folio B comes out soon. I do love a SC3 album proper.
    Please don't ask questions, just use google.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    We only did it twice at the Stone (within days of learning the tune) and haven't dared try again since. Of course Ches and Kenny nailed those parts no problem.
    It was completely mind-blowing to experience all the music that was performed and premiered at The Stone. I can't think of any series of shows to be pulled off at that level - so much variety of challenging material in obscure genres, two shows a day for almost a week. It's a nearly miraculous achievement to get through the music at all. Some mistakes are inevitable - it's the only way such an incredible residency could take place. I have seen a lot of live music, and nothing really compares. The closest thing that comes to mind was Ensemble Modern performing a few Nancarrow player piano studies. That is mind-blowing, but I'm sure they had waaaaay more rehearsal time, and it was only a few pieces. The SC3 residencies had completely different shows, twice a day for multiple days. Unreal.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    My only exposure to this group is the album Book of Souls which sounds like the soundtrack to a tongue-in-cheek computer game.
    Yes, to you that's what it sounds like. Since there are contributors to "this group" here in this very thread, I'm sure it must be highly beguiling for you to learn new things about the actual composition of this tongue-in-cheek computer game soundtrack-music.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Yes, to you that's what it sounds like. Since there are contributors to "this group" here in this very thread, I'm sure it must be highly beguiling for you to learn new things about the actual composition of this tongue-in-cheek computer game soundtrack-music.
    SC3 doesn't really fit into any genres or categories (even though Trey sees clear definitions of the sub-bands). So, anywhere it's mentioned (outside of SC3 fan groups), there are always people who can't really grasp it - or it doesn't interest them enough for one reason or another. It takes effort and time to really understand the big picture of how SC3 works fit together. Again, there aren't many artists I can compare that to. Maybe Zappa had a similar scope - but SC3 is more subtle and intricate in wider dimensions.

  18. #18
    ^ Oh, certainly. It's a matter of meta-aesthetics, and an overarching approach to artistic narrative. Zappa strived for it, Zorn has it, Buckethead, Boredoms and a number of others succeed at it most of the time. I suppose it's an extension to post-modernist views on form and expression, typically heralded in Japan by folks like J.A. Caesar and Magical Power Mako etc.

    Anyway, I'm a fan.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
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  19. #19
    Member Lebofsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergalthema View Post
    It was completely mind-blowing to experience all the music that was performed and premiered at The Stone. I can't think of any series of shows to be pulled off at that level - so much variety of challenging material in obscure genres, two shows a day for almost a week. It's a nearly miraculous achievement to get through the music at all. Some mistakes are inevitable - it's the only way such an incredible residency could take place. I have seen a lot of live music, and nothing really compares. The closest thing that comes to mind was Ensemble Modern performing a few Nancarrow player piano studies. That is mind-blowing, but I'm sure they had waaaaay more rehearsal time, and it was only a few pieces. The SC3 residencies had completely different shows, twice a day for multiple days. Unreal.
    Thanks - I appreciate that. That last Stone run was a rather crazy week for me of which those shows and rehearsals were only but one part (a long story which I may have discussed elsewhere at length). Outside of Trey I think I had the most shows of the 12 during that residency - I played 8 of them. And there was about 80 pages of scores to digest leading up to those shows. And I was in charge of programming everybody's keyboard controllers (as many as 6 on stage). This said, I'm a fan of the band as much as anybody who isn't in the group, and I'm lucky to have one of the better seats in the house on any given show. It's all Trey's vision, compositions, and honestly I'm not able to tell you much about the overarching artistic narrative of SC3 that you don't already know. I just read the ink.

    By the way I'm going to use this opportunity to be a jerk and promote my latest solo album if only because the first track is clearly a joyous homage to the Masada/SC3 world:

    https://mattlebofsky.bandcamp.com/al...g-origin-story

    - Matt

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebofsky View Post
    By the way I'm going to use this opportunity to be a jerk and promote my latest solo album if only because the first track is clearly a joyous homage to the Masada/SC3 world:

    https://mattlebofsky.bandcamp.com/al...g-origin-story
    Very nice stuff Matt!

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