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Thread: Vinyl to outsell CD's this year?

  1. #51
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Are vinyl records worse for the environment?
    https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...stry-streaming
    Well, now that we know vinyl's brilliant ecological footprint is (we're not even counting the ink for the cardboard sleeves)....

    I'd like to see how the different plastics of and around the CDs are making as an envirnmental impact .... Not sure it's better.
    Maybe the day that CD definitely ousts the jewel cases and digipak trays in favour of cardboard, the (much smaller) actual plastic disc will account for less "matters" than vinyl, but not yet accounting for the actual engraved layer's excological footprint.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  2. #52
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    ^^But CDs can't be melted down to make new product.

    Not that many LPs are, either....

  3. #53
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    ^^ CDs have that metal substrate, into which the actual ones and zeros are imprinted. Mixing materials removes any possibility of recycling.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    ^^ CDs have that metal substrate, into which the actual ones and zeros are imprinted. Mixing materials removes any possibility of recycling.
    It's actually glued upon the back side of the label.... The label is much more fragile than the actual reading side (which can be repolished if scratched). Scratching the label will probably permanently damage the foil beneath it.

    The info metal foil & label can be stripped away from its plastic disc (I've seen it done), but impossible without damaging it.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    The info metal foil & label can be stripped away from its plastic disc (I've seen it done)
    That process is called "ripping it to your hard drive."

  6. #56
    Vinyl clearly has a greater affect on global warming.

    Told ya vinyl was warmer.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Vinyl clearly has a greater affect on global warming.
    Well since vinyl is made from dead dinosaurs, and the Earth was warmer during the Jurassic, maybe it's a cyclical thing?

  8. #58
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    I miss Vinyl, but mostly because of the artwork. If Cd's start selling less than downloads - that dont really sell at all, maybe I'll jump back in. I can never get back what I've thrown out. Wives suck sometimes...

  9. #59
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    Vinyl records can be melted and pressed into other vinyl records. At most, the paper labels would have to be punched out of the disc and discarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    It's actually glued upon the back side of the label.... The label is much more fragile than the actual reading side (which can be repolished if scratched). Scratching the label will probably permanently damage the foil beneath it.

    The info metal foil & label can be stripped away from its plastic disc (I've seen it done), but impossible without damaging it.
    For the purposes of recycling, having to strip the foil/label away from CDs would be way more expensive and time consuming than it's worth. In recycling plants, if someone wraps their blue barrel newspaper in a plastic or grocery bag, plant employees will simply throw it away. It isn't even worth their time to rip open the bag and dump the contents back on the belt.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    For the purposes of recycling, having to strip the foil/label away from CDs would be way more expensive and time consuming than it's worth. In recycling plants, if someone wraps their blue barrel newspaper in a plastic or grocery bag, plant employees will simply throw it away. It isn't even worth their time to rip open the bag and dump the contents back on the belt.
    Yeah, of course, there is an economic sensibilty even in recycling plants, at the cost of ecological concerns,

    Sadly even the capitalist idea of the merchendisation of wastes did some good, but usually stops the the total process of complete recycling. Yes, stripping away the foil & label from the slice of plastic is probably too long and complicated to be economically viable. But it can be done, I can think of a sanding/grinding process to do it. Who knows, maybe the metallic foil can be worth something.

    but as lmong as we're in a capitalist world , economics will always be >>>> Ecologic
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    For the purposes of recycling, having to strip the foil/label away from CDs would be way more expensive and time consuming than it's worth. In recycling plants, if someone wraps their blue barrel newspaper in a plastic or grocery bag, plant employees will simply throw it away. It isn't even worth their time to rip open the bag and dump the contents back on the belt.
    I have heard that China, where most of our recyclables ended up, is no longer accepting recycling and the vast majority of our "blue barrel" recycling just ends up in the landfill now.

  12. #62
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    ^^^
    Correct - and rightly so.
    Which should be responsable and deal with our own garbage.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Vinyl clearly has a greater affect on global warming.

    Told ya vinyl was warmer.

  14. #64
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I have heard that China, where most of our recyclables ended up, is no longer accepting recycling and the vast majority of our "blue barrel" recycling just ends up in the landfill now.
    It won't be long before Best Buy no longer accepts old electronics for recycling. The US is running out of 3rd world countries to take if off our hands.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    It won't be long before Best Buy no longer accepts old electronics for recycling. The US is running out of 3rd world countries to take if off our hands.


  16. #66
    Well, at least this puts an end to hack jokes about young people not knowing what a record player is.
    Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...

  17. #67
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    Any estimates on illegal downloads?

    I'm guessing they are 10 times CDs & Vinyl together...
    Last edited by Mythos; 02-02-2020 at 03:09 PM.

  18. #68
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    ^^ Streaming services like Pandora, Spotify, Netflix and Hulu have made illegal downloading superfluous. What kid is going to eat their valuable selfie space in their phone storage with a file they could just as easily stream at any time?
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    ^^ Streaming services like Pandora, Spotify, Netflix and Hulu have made illegal downloading superfluous. What kid is going to eat their valuable selfie space in their phone storage with a file they could just as easily stream at any time?
    aren't most of these kids' pictures stored in clouds and stuff?

    But yeah, I can see their parents paying for streaming services as to avoid their kids getting caught illegaly downloading.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  20. #70
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    Big fire threatens vinyl record manufacturing
    https://pitchfork.com/news/devastati...record-supply/

  21. #71
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    This is rather fun... and listen to the last couple of verses

    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  22. #72
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    ^^ This video accurately pinpoints the appeal of record shopping, which is flipping through bins until you accidentally stumble on something totally cool & unexpected. I *DO* miss that.

  23. #73
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    If there is a surge in vinyl sales, it’s because the baby boomers are dying off and their attics are being dumped. Hype is selling vinyl cause it’s there and practically free.

    On the subject of vinyl vs digital sound quality, I recently bought some earbuds that do an excellent job of noise isolation and sound quality in general. I play vinyl on a Yamaha PX3 turntable with a tangential tracking tone arm and an Ortofon high output moving coil cartridge (with special preamp). I have a component Aiwa CD recorder which I use to record the analog output. On some songs which are not complex, the vinyl sounds great however the soundstage is nothing like a good digital lossless recording. I have noticed with these earphones that most stereo speakers in the air do not compete with these in ear earphones. A key characteristic for me is the improvement in intelligibility of vocals on the earphones. Vinyl vocals don’t sound as intelligible on these earphones. But where vinyl falls apart, and so does some digital recordings, is when the sound is filled with many complex sources which effectively raise the amount of information packed into the spectrum including large bass power content. This does happen with all digital sometimes, but likely due to amplitude compression either in the analog or digital domain. Very few vinyl recordings approach the dynamic range of digital, however when it’s the cutting lathe that does mechanical amplitude compression, it’s sonically more forgiving. Digital amplitude compression or limiting is terrible. Putting digitally compressed stuff on vinyl ain’t going to make it better. I have decided to purchase one recording as a CD to compare to my digital copy of the vinyl, to do the comparison. Previously I only converted vinyl cause I didn’t want to pay for a CD. BTW my Aiwa CD recorder had a very good ADC for its time.

  24. #74
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    But where vinyl falls apart, and so does some digital recordings, is when the sound is filled with many complex sources which effectively raise the amount of information packed into the spectrum including large bass power content. This does happen with all digital sometimes, but likely due to amplitude compression either in the analog or digital domain.
    If you look at the waveform on a DAW, there is in fact only *one* wave, no matter how "complex" the sound or how many instruments are playing or how much large bass power content there is. If your stereo is not reproducing this waveform accurately, it most likely is NOT the fault of the turntable or CD player, but rather your amplifier. Some CD players, particularly those with advanced oversampled DACs, do a better job of delineating individual instruments in an ensemble setting but the effect is exceedingly subtle, IME. Compression is not a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Very few vinyl recordings approach the dynamic range of digital
    It's less than "very few." It's none.

    Not that very many productions utilize the full capacity of either format.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    ...however when it’s the cutting lathe that does mechanical amplitude compression, it’s sonically more forgiving.
    The signals fed into an LP cutting lathe have to be electronically limited to 60dB to prevent the grooves from impacting on each other. This is, not coincidentally, also the maximum DR of magnetic tape recording.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firth View Post
    Digital amplitude compression or limiting is terrible.
    Overdriven digital sounds terrible. The bits go straight to full deflection and stay there, causing a square wave and attendant harsh sound.

    However nobody uses overdriving as a method of compressing a signal. There are digital compression algorithms that sound very natural and smooth, without ever entering the overlimit squaring of the waveform.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    If you look at the waveform on a DAW, there is in fact only *one* wave, no matter how "complex" the sound or how many instruments are playing or how much large bass power content there is. If your stereo is not reproducing this waveform accurately, it most likely is NOT the fault of the turntable or CD player, but rather your amplifier. Some CD players, particularly those with advanced oversampled DACs, do a better job of delineating individual instruments in an ensemble setting but the effect is exceedingly subtle, IME. Compression is not a factor.

    It's less than "very few." It's none.

    Not that very many productions utilize the full capacity of either format.

    The signals fed into an LP cutting lathe have to be electronically limited to 60dB to prevent the grooves from impacting on each other. This is, not coincidentally, also the maximum DR of magnetic tape recording.

    Overdriven digital sounds terrible. The bits go straight to full deflection and stay there, causing a square wave and attendant harsh sound.

    However nobody uses overdriving as a method of compressing a signal. There are digital compression algorithms that sound very natural and smooth, without ever entering the overlimit squaring of the waveform.
    The waveform shape is noise if the information content is high, which is equivalent to filling the spectrum on the average. The spectrum being filled also means that the rms power is maximized and there is a higher average duty cycle presented to the amp. It’s that condition where I hear things not resolved as well on vinyl.

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