Wow that track is wicked - no it's nothing like PT and who cares?
He's going in a - gasp - different direction. Hate it when artists do that
Wow that track is wicked - no it's nothing like PT and who cares?
He's going in a - gasp - different direction. Hate it when artists do that
He doesn’t have to do anything original. Nor does he have to pander to the prog community. He can do whatever he wants. But if it’s brought up here and people think it’s rubbish, then they can say so. Just like people who like it can state that.Originally Posted by chalkpie
Do any of you feel compelled to 'come to his rescue' when you see people say they don't like the new tune?
I just don't understand why Wilson who has achieved great success the hard way want to make lame mainstream music like this. Maybe he thinks he's done everything else and now wants to prove he can write mainstream pop music and be even more successful. I was hoping he was going do the opposite and continue to try to bring challenging rock music into the mainstream, instead he's sold out
Nope.
But to elaborate a bit: Wilson doesn't need anyone coming to his rescue, least of all me. He's doing fine it seems. He's got a family, he's seeing some much-deserved success, and he seems to be doing what he enjoys doing.
And I'm not surprised to see so many hating on the new song here and calling him a sellout. Honestly, what else was gonna happen?
Personally, I rather like the new song. It reminds me most of late-period Bowie (which is never a bad thing IMO), rather than Prince or Pet Shop Boys. I really don't hear any Prince at all in this one.
I gave To The Bone another spin recently, and it still holds up pretty well for me. I return to it more than HCE, and it's more digestible to me. To be frank, Steven Wilson hasn't made any music truly "challenging" in quite a long time. But I don't want challenging music all the time anyway. When the new album comes out, I will buy it and listen to it and then find out whether it works for me or not.
In the past Steven has left out the family for music, now that he is married, he will make simple pop tunes and concentrate on the family with many children to come between the release of albums.
He just puzzles me with this direction under his main trading name. He has other outlets for the "pop" side of his creative mind, notably No Man's recent album with it's EDM vibe, or even Blackfield when he is more vested in the project and involved in their shorter snappier songs. Porcupine Tree was always his proggier outlet (and the one that hooked most of us here) and when he moved on to trading under his own name he seemed to explore similar ground. Raven and HCE I see as high water marks in a long interesting career, and I did enjoy To The Bone and the attendant tour a great deal. The pop lectures and Permanating, less so.
Are you looking for volunteers?
If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
https://battema.bandcamp.com/
Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com
Well, he is a frail thing.
One minor observation: he may explore pop with the other projects but full-on touring only ever really happened with PT and Wilson on his own. Expanding his work into a wider market means larger audiences, larger shows and potentially greater $$ for him. Recorded output might be surging in terms of listeners but that's probably mostly via digital and streaming services which means his revenue growth probably isn't comparable to his listener growth. But live, it might make a fairly substantial difference.
Also...Wilson's not first generation prog. His age means he is probably going to outlive most of the first generation of prog...as well as those fans. Sad reality is, that scene isn't going to grow. Contrary to the hopes of a select few, "traditional" prog rock has no chance of real expansion. Putting all your eggs in that basket is a losing bet if you are trying to be a sustainable artist.
I don't love the new song. But whereas nothing on To The Bone struck me as a potential crossover hit with a larger pop audience, this tune feels like he's learning how to craft his songwriting in a way that just might reach some of them. To that end, kudos and more power to him.
IMHO.
If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
https://battema.bandcamp.com/
Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com
I don't know what he should do but I know that I don't like the song "Eminent Sleaze".
My progressive music site: https://pienemmatpurot.com/ Reviews in English: https://pienemmatpurot.com/in-english/
I have no harsh feelings about this song ("Eminent Sleaze"), but I don't feel the need or desire to hear it again. Nothing against a pop venture from SW (like other people said, he does as he pleases), and I love the latest No-Man album, but to me this feels a bit heavy-handed, musically, lyrically and production-wise.
And, perhaps that was in his thinking when he originally planned to do a few shows at much larger venues in the UK and Europe this autumn. I had been looking forward to the London show. Despite my misgivings with the 3 tracks from his new album, I still plan to attend one of his shows when he reschedules (may be later next year?).
I recall being annoyed and unimpressed with the songs that he previewed from "To The Bone" a few years ago. In the event, I found the full album quite good with a few stand out tracks.
Maybe not, but we know that he's a big fan of most of those bands.
Chad
All excellent points, and I do not disagree with anything you say. I have a few additional thoughts though.
He will outlive the first generation for sure, he is 52 now, but that is still quite an advanced age to start cracking the upper reaches of the popular charts and converting new fans. I think by and large those of us that still buy his music have an interest in a niche / niches that we have held dear since teenage years. Other more casual listeners may find their way to the new songs via programmed playlists and algorithms but I am sceptical this will lead to many more concert ticket sales. I did feel his move into the enormodome area such as London's O2 was an optimistic step, and not one I was minded to follow. I loved the last shows at the Royal Albert Hall, but over the years I have grown to dislike arena shows, they are too distant and informal. I have been to plenty, but I am not planning on going to plenty more. So for every new fan he wins, he may lose a ticket sale to those of us who prefer the "intimacy" of a 5,000 seat concert hall.
There's another angle too, which I didn't mention above but is kind of "on the other hand" to all of this. No beef with trying to grow an audience. But he's also still milking the disposable income of his "faithful" with giant deluxe editions and VIP passes. It's the thing that actually still bugs me most: the lyrics to Personal Shopper call out big box set with disdain, and he spent several minutes at the last show I saw bitching about how the kids are all stuck with the crappy/cheap seats in the back. Right now I think he's trying to have it both ways but that isn't going to last.
If you're actually reading this then chances are you already have my last album but if NOT and you're curious:
https://battema.bandcamp.com/
Also, Ephemeral Sun: it's a thing and we like making things that might be your thing: https://ephemeralsun.bandcamp.com
Not saying much, but it's the best track to come from Steven Wilson since the song, "Blackfield."
I love reading the reviews here when stuff like this gets released. Oh, the horror!Carry on, it's food for my eyes.
This is the bottom line, I think.
I don't see this as "selling out" at all. In fact, if anything, he's following his muse at the risk of losing much of his audience. If he'd wanted to grow his little empire, he'd have been churning out sound-alike follow-ups to Hand. Cannot. Erase. this whole time. That's where he briefly threatened to break into the mainstream a few years ago. Putting out an '80s electro-pop album with a hamfisted concept worthy of post-Floyd Roger Waters is not going to further his mainstream acceptance.
Where I *do* critique these first two songs is that I feel he himself has done better work in the same general musical style and subject matter. Both songs feel a little tired, despite the talent on offer. I don't sense the same level of inspiration that I did with Raven or Hand. Cannot. Erase.
He's just a couple years younger than me, and as a musician I understand the feeling of maybe getting bored with the things that used to inspire you. When that's happened to me recently, I have to widen my circle of influences and bring in things that I'd rejected before (disco and the Grateful Dead, in my case). Whatever the case, these two tracks scream to me that Wilson needs to find a new source of creative inspiration.
It might be an OK song if that clap track wasn't slathered all over everything.
The thing that always confuses me by the usual reaction is the "pop music" and "mainstream" comments.
Maybe I'm just not in touch with the pop music charts anymore. I haven't listened to much BTC or Ariana Grande, so I don't really know, but is this what pop music sounds like these days?
No, not really.
No, not even close. It's what middle-aged prog geeks like us think the mainstream is, since we don't actually listen to mainstream pop!:
In reality, there is no more mainstream in pop music. The entire thing is moribund commercially, and the number of niches has exploded. The mainstream of the past was driven by the limited distribution channels. Everyone listened to the same two or three pop styles the record companies belched out. The closest I can find to actual mainstream seems more focused on having an attractive vocalist for the video and Instagram, not on the musical content beyond a vaguely danceable beat and having a guest-star rapper.
Agreed. I always thought Wilson could one day find big commercial success but I thought it would be with the sort of Blackfield art pop style songs which I really love, not this. Yes he can do what he likes but I am puzzled as to why he is doing it and disappointed because whatever the genre, the songs don't seem very good. Whatever, it will be very interesting to see the wider reaction and how successful the project is.
That's the beauty of the comedy gold here within this thread! When proggers think they know what pop and mainstream is vs. what it really is.No, not even close. It's what middle-aged prog geeks like us think the mainstream is, since we don't actually listen to mainstream pop!
Not at all, but to my ears/eyes it is clearly a play for a more chart-friendly (i.e. inclusive) direction, albeit wrapped in a concept that risks alienating some. What do I know though, I'm one of those old guys with a pretty wide taste and large record collection who remembers when pop could be arch and interesting. I feel this is the underlying driver to Mr Wislon's new direction. I may be way off the mark though.
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