Hot Rats Sessions Box

[StarThrower]

I prefer the remix, although the CD volume is too loud. As far as any hearing loss, Frank mentioned in an interview that he had a slight hearing deficiency at a certain frequency range in one ear.

[rcarlberg]

I think he was mostly affected by his disdain for his 60s musicians.

Plus he had built a big fancy new studio with all the gimcracks, and probably figured anything recorded prior to the new studio needed to be "fixed."

[Steve F.]

Plus he had built a big fancy new studio with all the gimcracks, and probably figured anything recorded prior to the new studio needed to be "fixed."

That too. I concur. But that was secondary.

[rcarlberg]

Jean Lapouge of Nöetra says something relevant on his Bandcamp page:

I had judged at the time that the Rochefort sessions could not be published in their entirety because they were not good enough. When I am in this state of mind, I should be forbidden to access my own archives.

[profusion]

I think he was mostly affected by his disdain for his 60s musicians.

Maybe, but even his new releases from that era suffered from a lack of low end. Just a weird sonic situation. The last album of his that I thought had great sound was Joe's Garage.

[StarThrower]

Maybe, but even his new releases from that era suffered from a lack of low end. Just a weird sonic situation. The last album of his that I thought had great sound was Joe's Garage.

Have you heard Yellow Shark or Civilization Phase III? They sound phenomenal.

[profusion]

Have you heard Yellow Shark or Civilization Phase III? They sound phenomenal.

They do, indeed. However, rock band albums like You Are What You Is and Them Or Us all had very odd mixes.

[StarThrower]

I've never listened to the vinyl of You Are What You Is but none of the CDs sound very good. That one gives me ear fatigue.

[pb2015]

I think he was mostly affected by his disdain for his 60s musicians.

I don't think he had disdain for Max Bennett though.

[Steve F.]

I don't think he had disdain for Max Bennett though.

No, I agree.

[Conti]

Max Bennett was a great bass player. About his involvement in the Hot Rats sessions, I've found the following quote from him in wikipedia: "I was not familiar with Zappa’s music. Our paths never crossed. I was never a big fan of avant garde music in that sense. It was while I was working in the studio, what was it, 1967 [sic], I think? And I got a call from John Guerin. He said, ‘Get your stuff over to TTG’—that was in Hollywood—‘I got a double session for you with Frank Zappa.’ So we get there and we worked two double sessions for two nights. And that was the album, that was Hot Rats.”

[ronmac]

The last album of his that I thought had great sound was Joe's Garage.

And an analog mix, too.

[pb2015]

And an analog mix, too.

Zappa didn't start mixing his albums digitally until 1983 shortly after Man From Utopia and the first London Symphony album.

[pulse]

Very much looking forward to hearing the raw takes of "Peaches" and "Willie," and the stuff that ended up as part of "Toads of the Short Forest," "Little House I Used To Live In" and (apparently after a lot of reworking) "Lemme Take You To The Beach."

Me, as well. A resourceful use of studio time. But, a cursory search revealed that the rate was $55 an hour at TTG Studios in ‘68. (Less than I expected, anyway.)
The Wikipedia article states that “TTG stood for "tilhas teezee gescheften", an Israeli slang expression made of Arabic and Yiddish words, meaning 'kiss my A-- business".

[Mister Triscuits]

The Wikipedia article states that “TTG stood for "tilhas teezee gescheften", an Israeli slang expression made of Arabic and Yiddish words, meaning 'kiss my A-- business".

Ha! The Pogues should have recorded there!

[pulse]

It sounds to me like Sugarcane Harris is playing the organ during Underwood’s sax improv at the start of “Gumbo Variations,” and then they switch ‘roles.’ But, it’s not credited. ...Those guys are ridiculous cooking for 32 minutes on the unedited master take. Striking while the fire was hot.

I think it’s the voice of David Ossman on the promotional ads.

[pb2015]

I think it’s the voice of David Ossman on the promotional ads.

Yes. This site has a list of the Warners promos he did around that time. I hadn't noticed that the promos for Jethro Tull's Stand Up (included in the SW remix box set) were also by Ossman, along with Phil Austin.

[rcarlberg]

I hadn't noticed that the promos for Jethro Tull's Stand Up (included in the SW remix box set) were also by Ossman, along with Phil Austin.

Ah, they're just clones.

[alucard]

Finally made it through listening to the boxset. First I don't like the title, Sessions in the traditional jazz speak are the recordings of a bunch of jazz musicians coming together to record in several takes a couple of standards (and or originals) with a producer choosing his favourite takes for release. In the case of the Hot Rat recordings you have two types of recordings : elaborate jams with soloing ( mainly Zappa, Sugarcane Harris & Underwood) These are IMO the more interesting tracks and then tracks where Zappa guides the musicians painstakingly towards the elaboration of a composition , sometimes just basic rhythm tracks , with lots of stop and go. These tracks are quite boring to listen to and IMO should have remained in the boxes. I would have kept 3 CDs worth of listening material.

[StarThrower]

I had no intention of buying this expensive box but my wife found it in the Zappa vinyl section of a local record store. It looked pretty classy and it's loaded with a ton of material so we took the plunge. After listening to all six discs, I don't regret my decision to purchase the set. I didn't find the rhythm tracks boring, but disc one isn't going receive heavy rotation. The full on band tracks and alternate mix/takes all sound wonderful to my ears.

[rcarlberg]

In the case of the Hot Rat recordings you have two types of recordings : elaborate jams with soloing. These are IMO the more interesting tracks and then tracks where Zappa guides the musicians painstakingly towards the elaboration of a composition , sometimes just basic rhythm tracks , with lots of stop and go. These tracks are quite boring to listen to and IMO should have remained in the boxes. I would have kept 3 CDs worth of listening material.

Now that the tracks are available online for previewing, I have to concur: there's about an hour's worth (55 minutes to be exact) of interesting stuff. Jams, early run throughs, isolated instruments. There's also a LOT of dreck, imo. Everyone's choices for dreck versus gold will be different, of course, but I feel like I got one good companion CD out of the deal.

[tommy_n_chucky]

"𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓲𝓮 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓟𝓲𝓶𝓹" is a blues rock song from #FrankZappa's 1969 album #HotRats. It features an idiosyncratic #CaptainBeefheart vocal and one of Zappa's classic guitar solos. It is the only track that is not instrumental on the album, though the track features a long guitar solo.

The origin of the song was explained in a conversation Zappa recorded in 1969. This interview recording was later released as "The Story of #𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓲𝓮 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓟𝓲𝓶𝓹" on the Zappa album Mystery Disc.

The song was ranked number 75 on the list of "The 100 Greatest Guitar Songs of All Time" of Rolling Stone.

[Verse: Captain Beefheart]
I'm a little #𝒫𝒾𝓂𝓅 with my hair gassed back
Pair a khaki pants with my shoe shined black
Got a little lady, walk that street
Tellin' all the boys that she can't be beat
Twenty dollar bill, I can set you straight
Meet me on the corner boy and don't be late
Man in a suit with a bow-tie neck
Wanna buy a grunt with a third party check
Standin' on the porch of the Lido Hotel
Floozies in the lobby love the way I sell:

[Refrain: Captain Beefheart]
Hot meat, hot rats
Hot cats, hot rits
Hot roots, hot soots

"𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵𝓲𝓮 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓟𝓲𝓶𝓹 ~ (Unedited Master Take)


References:

https://store.zappa.com/hot-rats-lim...ink-vinyl.html

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_the_Pimp

https://genius.com/Frank-zappa-willie-the-pimp-lyrics

[Dave (in MA)]

Interesting that the Ryko mix is included, but not the original. I guess they assume everyone already has it, but I don't have it on CD. I have the Ryko, and a vinyl rip in MP3 format from about 15 years ago that I probably found on Napster or Usenet which was easier than hooking up my turntable to the PC and ripping my vinyl.

[StarThrower]

Interesting that the Ryko mix is included, but not the original.

It makes sense since the Ryko edition is out of print, and the original is readily available on the 2012 re-issue.

[Dave (in MA)]

It makes sense since the Ryko edition is out of print, and the original is readily available on the 2012 re-issue.

I know, but for instance, the Freedom Jazz Dance Miles Davis Bootleg Series box is sort of a similar format, taken from sessions that led to a classic album, in that case, Miles Smiles. It contains all of the master takes that make up the album in addition to the never-heard-before session recordings, and the album is still in print. Ditto for all the various King Crimson album-centric box sets.