Hot Rats Sessions Box

[rcarlberg]

Perhaps the ZFT didn't want to put Frank's 1992 remixes up against the original mixes in close proximity? For the same reason Wild Man Fischer hasn't been re-released: it tarnishes the reputation everyone has tried to build around Frank.

[Dave (in MA)]

I thought the post-Ryko version of Hot Rats was considered good by most.

[StarThrower]

I prefer the 1987 remix. But that's the one I listened to for 25 years before I heard the original.

[JKL2000]

Got this set a while back, but just cracked it open. Unfortunately, the booklet doesn’t really seem to Bach detailed info about the contents. What’s the importance or the value of the 1987 remix? Is it that much different from what’s on the regular Ryko CD? I don’t know the album inside & out the way some of you do. Stupid, friggin’ game board! This set isn’t very high on the fondleometer. Hopefully I’ll get some value out of the content! (“She/he’s not too attractive, but has a great personality!”

(I see this is discussed some above, but might as well get some fresh opinions.)

[StarThrower]

What’s the importance or the value of the 1987 remix? Is it that much different from what’s on the regular Ryko CD?

No, it's the same thing. It was included because the Ryko is out of print and the current available edition is the original mix re-issued in 2012.

[chalkpie]

The 87 remix is great imo.

[JKL2000]

The 87 remix is great imo.

It sounds great to me too. Now that I think of it, I don’t know that the copy I already have is the Ryko. I’m not sure where it is, and I can’t remember when I bought it.

[Conti]

I prefer the 1987 remix over the original one, which sounds flopsy and distractive to me.

[pb2015]

tl,dr: I like both mixes.

Some notable differences:
Peaches - There's a little improvised bit from Ian just before the fade in the remix that I like, that isn't in the original.
Willie - Original has violin, bass and drums in the intro, remix is just violin and drums. FZ mixed out the background violin during the guitar solo more successfully in the remix than the original. Some bits of the guitar solo are in the original but edited out of the remix, and vice versa.
Little Umbrellas - The recorder melody in the middle of the song is partly muted in the original mix leaving just bass and drums for four bars, while the remix has the whole melody.
Gumbo - Obvious difference, the remix is four minutes longer. Again some guitar soloing is included in the original but not the remix and vice versa.

[Dave (in MA)]

Has anybody put together a nice little album-sized selection of tracks from the box that they find flows nicely?
I was thinking about giving it a try tonight if my laptop doesn't act up again.

[pb2015]

I made two playlists, although it's been a while since I went back to listen.

The Lost Frank Zappa Album
Bognor Regis - 1970 Record Plant Mix
Arabesque - Guitar OD Mix
Lil' Clanton Shuffle - 1972 Whitney Studios Mix
Transition - Full Version
Willie The Pimp - 1969 Quick Mix
Piano Music - Section 3, OD Version

The Alternate Hot Rats
Peaches En Regalia - 1969 Rhythm Track Mix
Peaches Jam - Pt. 2
Willie The Pimp - Guitar OD 1
Son Of Mr. Green Genes - 1969 Mix Outtake
Little Umbrellas - 1969 Mix Outtake
Big Legs - Unedited Master Take
It Must Be A Camel - 1969 Mix Outtake

[Dave (in MA)]

Nice selections!
A King Crimson box would have come with a disc containing the alternate album.

Peaches En Regalia (1969 Rhythm Track Mix)

"Can you still hear me? Can the machine hear me? Bingo bango bongo?"

The Mosquitoes!

[Mister Triscuits]

"Can you still hear me? Can the machine hear me? Bingo bango bongo?"

The Mosquitoes!

[Dave (in MA)]

Your ancient references are even older than mine!
The question is, was FZ familiar with the Andrews Sisters, or Gilligan's Island?
Bonus question: Was that Civilization Phaze I?

[calyx]

I too first heard the 1987 remix, not realising it was so different (in every respect) to the original. I remember thinking - "Wow, this sounds awesome for a 1969 recording !"
I have since heard the original mix, but prefer the 1987 mix (and edits).

[JJ88]

I had heard the original mix first (on record, as it wasn't on CD then) in the early 2000s. So when I first heard the remix it was a 'WTF' moment. Whilst I do prefer the original, the remix is still valid, as a 'director's cut' kind of thing. At least he didn't mess it up with 80s overdubs and the like.

[alucard]

Perhaps the ZFT didn't want to put Frank's 1992 remixes up against the original mixes in close proximity? For the same reason Wild Man Fischer hasn't been re-released: it tarnishes the reputation everyone has tried to build around Frank.

Actually the Wild Man Fischer record ( An Evening with WMF) has been re-released in 2016 by Gonzo Multimedia. From memory Gail Z didn´t want it to be re-released, but I am not sure why. It´s a great record and even so Zappa and some Mothers played on it Zappa was mainly the producer, with Trout Mask Replica the most interesting Zappa prod IMO

[alucard]

I too first heard the 1987 remix, not realising it was so different (in every respect) to the original. I remember thinking - "Wow, this sounds awesome for a 1969 recording !"
I have since heard the original mix, but prefer the 1987 mix (and edits).

I have the aural blueprint of an original 70s German Pressing, but I quite like the 87 mix, I mainly listen to the LP so

[pb2015]

Actually the Wild Man Fischer record ( An Evening with WMF) has been re-released in 2016 by Gonzo Multimedia.

I think that was a grey market release. If I recall right Joe Travers has said the Zappa Trust may reissue the record eventually. I think Gail didn't want to reissue it as WMF had a falling out with the Zappas soon after the album.

[alucard]

I think that was a grey market release. If I recall right Joe Travers has said the Zappa Trust may reissue the record eventually. I think Gail didn't want to reissue it as WMF had a falling out with the Zappas soon after the album.

I remember now. WMF was thinking he would become a big pop star. He actually did one big festival and then he was unhappy with the record and he was at Zappa's hours and in his anger he threw something very heavy towards Gail who was pregnant at this time and Zappa ended his relationship with WMF afterwards.

[Steve F.]

I think that was a grey market release. If I recall right Joe Travers has said the Zappa Trust may reissue the record eventually. I think Gail didn't want to reissue it as WMF had a falling out with the Zappas soon after the album.

It’s (the Gonzo CD) a completely ILLEGITIMATE release, taken off vinyl with no one’s approval or ok.

[JKL2000]

I remember now. WMF was thinking he would become a big pop star. He actually did one big festival and then he was unhappy with the record and he was at Zappa's hours and in his anger he threw something very heavy towards Gail who was pregnant at this time and Zappa ended his relationship with WMF afterwards.

According to Wikipedia, he threw a bottle at Moon, who was an infant at the time.

[Guitarplyrjvb]

Been listening to this the last couple of days. There's a lot of sausage making of aborted takes with Zappa's direction to the musicians regarding changes he wants. It's interesting, but makes listening difficult. I'd rather listen to the album uninterrupted. So far, this seems to me to be of historical importance rather than a coherent listening experience.

[rcarlberg]

Been listening to this the last couple of days. There's a lot of sausage making of aborted takes with Zappa's direction to the musicians regarding changes he wants. It's interesting, but makes listening difficult. I'd rather listen to the album uninterrupted. So far, this seems to me to be of historical importance rather than a coherent listening experience.

I listened to the whole thing online when it became available, and decided the same thing. I cut the 3-disc set down to single 56-minute disc with a few interesting alternate takes and unreleased effluvia:
1. Peaches en Regalia (prototype)
2. Arabesque (master take)
3. Dame Margret's Son To Be A Bride
4. Natasha (master take)
5. Bognor Regis (unedited master)
6. Transition (section 1)
7. L'il Clanton Shuffle (unedited master)
8. Dame Margret's Son To Be A Bride (remake)
9. It Must Be A Camel (percussion tracks)

By the way, the remixed original is still an abomination to me.

[Dave (in MA)]

Nice selection of tracks.
I don't get why they included the abomination version of the album instead of either the original mix, or both mixes.
Maybe they figured Hot Rats maniacs were more likely to already own the original mix than the mid-80s abomination?

(I actually don't think it's an abomination, it's just different, and I like having both versions around)