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Thread: Ginger Baker RIP

  1. #51
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Christ I've heard about 5 tracks from Wheels. What a trippy, proggy masterpiece.
    But why is so much of it out of phase? It has to be one of the worst-mixed albums ever.

  2. #52
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    ... almost as obscure as Jimmy Saville who, as a short-on-talent professional celebrity, is completely unknown over here.
    Is that the guy wot did The Chipmunks?

    (Hint: that was DAVID Seville. Or actually Ross Bagdasarian.)

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Christ I've heard about 5 tracks from Wheels. What a trippy, proggy masterpiece. And I just heard Toad. Toad was the birth of metal drums. Without Toad there would be no Moby Dick or Rat Salad. Truth.
    'Passing The Time', 'As You Said', 'Deserted Cities...', there's definitely an argument that these could be deemed 'proto prog'. Some of their best stuff.

    The live disc is called 'Live At The Fillmore' yet only one track was recorded there.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    If you were suggesting that they can be dismissed for what they did under any circumstance, I'll have it disagree.

    Unless, I misunderstood your post.
    One can dismiss them as person, but what does it mean for their music?
    What do we do with the music of composers who were antisemitic?
    Or with a composer who ordered the killing of his wife and her lover?

  5. #55
    I watched the Beware Mr Baker documentary, it gave me a greater appreciation of him as a musician, but reaffirmed his standing as a flawed man. Following the conversation above was eye opening for those such as Bond and Kenton, I hadn’t encountered their histories before.

    In truth I’m not sure how far to go re the art v person debate. Airbrushing these criminals from history seems right in the context of their victims, but it is only possible if the profile was low initially or the years dim in the rear view mirror. You’ll never remove Jackson, too many people make too much money from his artistic legacy.

  6. #56
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    Proverbs 22 (24-25):
    “Make no friendship with an angry man,
    And with a furious man do not go,
    Lest you learn his ways
    And set a snare for your soul.”

    Beware the snare.🥁
    Last edited by pulse; 3 Days Ago at 01:32 PM. Reason: Add emoticon

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    One can dismiss them as person
    Then we agree.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  8. #58
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    'Passing The Time', 'As You Said', 'Deserted Cities...', there's definitely an argument that these could be deemed 'proto prog'. Some of their best stuff.
    .
    No doubt. Very quirky tracks. Even Pressed Rat & Wharthog is a quirk fest. What a shame they couldn't last longer.

  9. #59
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    Their lifespan was remarkably short. However they left a body of work that may be small, but is perfectly formed. I think all of their albums are excellent. Fresh Cream is sometimes overlooked but it's a ferocious, no-frills debut.

    A pity that all of their multi-tracked live recordings were from very late in their life, so you don't hear their development as a live act. (I've heard things like the excellent Grande Ballroom show from 1967 but that's not really release quality...officially anyway). The BBC sessions are also studio recordings, and don't reflect the improvisational side of the band at all.

  10. #60
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I've listened to the studio version of Toad a few times this weekend. My god, it's obvious that John Bonham and Bill Ward worshipped Mr. Baker. Amazing, all that talent and a complete douche as a human being. That's common among geniuses.

  11. #61
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulse View Post
    Proverbs 22 (24-25):
    “Make no friendship with an angry man,
    And with a furious man do not go,
    Lest you learn his ways
    And set a snare for your soul.”
    Old Russian proverb:

    "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll get all dirty and the pig just enjoys it."

    This applies both to politics and to artists.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I've heard things like the excellent Grande Ballroom show from 1967 but that's not really release quality...officially anyway
    I think it is.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  13. #63
    Casanova TCC's Avatar
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    Rest In Peace!
    Pura Vida!.

    There are two kinds of music. Good music, and the other kind. ∞
    Duke Ellington.

  14. #64
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    'Passing The Time', 'As You Said', 'Deserted Cities...', there's definitely an argument that these could be deemed 'proto prog'.
    Hey, if anyone can be said to have helped to invent 'prog', Jack is certainly on that list.....
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
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    This space for rent: Well established location. Perfect opportunity for an up and coming smart-ass to benefit from our years of provocation!

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    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  15. #65
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    'Passing The Time', 'As You Said', 'Deserted Cities...', there's definitely an argument that these could be deemed 'proto prog'. Some of their best stuff.
    If you dig this side of Cream, check out Bruce's Songs For A Tailor and Harmony Row, both exquisitely wayward and criminally neglected; absolutely required on whatever desert island I end up on.

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Fresh Cream is sometimes overlooked but it's a ferocious, no-frills debut.
    A genuine BFD(!) when first released; a brazen statement of intent: "this is the way it is now; get on board or get out of the way!" And Clapton's sound (continuing from the Mayall LP) may as well have been carved on a tablet, so definitive was it.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

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