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Thread: Ginger Baker RIP

  1. #26
    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    I dig Ginger Baker and the DJQ20* with James Carter-Coward of The County, from 1999.Kinda reflective and relaxed session but holds my interest pretty much all the way.Most tunes by trumpeter Ron Miles and the band is together and cooks.Well recorded,too.Check it out.

    *Denver Jazz Quintet to Octet.


    Last edited by walt; 1 Week Ago at 10:13 AM.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  2. #27
    'Blue Condition' popped up on my iPod shuffle on the way home today. As an inducement to searching out Ginger's solo oeuvre, it both sucks and blows, as you say Stateside.

  3. #28
    This isn't an alternate mix so much as it's just a rough mix of the song and then the tape continues to roll for 10 minutes of Ginger Baker drumming brilliance. Worth a listen if you just wanna hear Baker pound for a while.


  4. #29
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    What strikes me is how WIDE Baker's drums are mixed. That's mighty unusual. But it allows you to follow what he's doing much better.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Baker looks almost saintly when one looks at some of the stories out there about Graham Bond.
    Although with Bond, most of the monstrousness was due to his addiction(s). With Ginger, it seems to have been his main personality, and it stayed even when he got off the monkey.

  6. #31
    LinkMan Chain's Avatar
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    Well work a look at.


    “Pleasure and pain can be experienced simultaneously,” she said, gently massaging my back as we listened to her Coldplay CD.

  7. #32
    Member progholio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshipVoyager1976 View Post
    His trio records with Charlie Haden & Bill Frisell were superb
    I totally agree, love those trio records!

    A couple more Ginger albums i absoultely adore -

    Masters Of Reality - Sunrise On The Sufferbus



    This one holds up pretty well against Cream albums, extra points for the cover photo being cool as hell



    Maybe his best


  8. #33
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Baker sent a message from the other side.

    They've run out of beer.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baribrotzer View Post
    Although with Bond, most of the monstrousness was due to his addiction(s). With Ginger, it seems to have been his main personality, and it stayed even when he got off the monkey.
    Not sure about that...there are far darker allegations out there concerning Bond than anything I've read about Baker.

    https://www.allaboutjazz.com/graham-...an-heining.php

    I don't think I would have wanted to have had much to do with either on a personal level, to be quite honest. But one cannot argue with the musical legacy both men left behind.

    Worth seeking out the Solid Bond album, which covers different line-ups...one trio with Bond/Hiseman/Heckstall-Smith and the other with Bond/Baker/Bruce/McLaughlin. The latter recordings were from their days as a straight-up jazz quartet.

  10. #35
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Not sure about that...there are far darker allegations out there concerning Bond than anything I've read about Baker.

    https://www.allaboutjazz.com/graham-...an-heining.php
    Jeezus. I'd heard vague rumblings about Bond, but I never knew that about Stan Kenton. Ugh.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Jeezus. I'd heard vague rumblings about Bond, but I never knew that about Stan Kenton. Ugh.
    Yeah, I had to go look up some stuff on that. Sounds like she made peace with him afterward (she said that it was always because of alcohol, which still isn't an excuse -- like, at all). What a horrible thing.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Not sure about that...there are far darker allegations out there concerning Bond than anything I've read about Baker.

    https://www.allaboutjazz.com/graham-...an-heining.php

    I don't think I would have wanted to have had much to do with either on a personal level, to be quite honest. But one cannot argue with the musical legacy both men left behind.

    Worth seeking out the Solid Bond album, which covers different line-ups...one trio with Bond/Hiseman/Heckstall-Smith and the other with Bond/Baker/Bruce/McLaughlin. The latter recordings were from their days as a straight-up jazz quartet.
    How to seperate the work of an artist from his personal life. It is probably easy to dismiss Gary Glitter and perhaps Michael Jackson, for what they have done, because at least Gary Glitter wouldn't really be considered some kind of key figure, but how about greats, who did this kind of things. Can we still appreciate their work? If someone is dead, one could at least say, they don't make a profit from their work.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    It is probably easy to dismiss Gary Glitter and perhaps Michael Jackson, for what they have done,
    In no way, whatsoever.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  14. #39
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    I was careful to state 'allegations'. Bond's whole history is murky...even the circumstances of his death have been shrouded in mystery.

    As for Baker, I thought he was playing to the gallery in things like Beware Of Mr Baker. I've seen/read older, more normal interviews with him where he wasn't being so outrageous for effect. The aftermath of the 2005 Cream reunion was where I first started noticing this...see the Classic Artists documentary DVD on Cream.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    How to seperate the work of an artist from his personal life.
    I think to some extent, it's sometimes hard not to. A lot of deeply dubious characters in rock music- Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis etc. But you can't ignore their work.

  15. #40
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I think to some extent, it's sometimes hard not to. A lot of deeply dubious characters in rock music- Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis etc. But you can't ignore their work.
    We are all flawed human beings ("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...").

    Artists no less than the rest of us. We can learn to separate the artist from their work, and appreciate each for what they are. "Love the sinner, hate the sin." Knowing something terrible about a great artist tarnishes their legacy, but it does not diminish the quality of their work.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    In no way, whatsoever.
    What's the difference? They all did something wrong, which would be frowned upon if an ordinary mortal did it. The only difference is Gary Glitter can hardly be seen as an important artist.

  17. #42
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    Glitter has been completely erased from history in the UK. Most record stores won't sell his stuff, radio stations won't play it, his songs are removed from TV repeats etc. I understand that 'Rock And Roll Part 2' is still a big thing in the US though.

    By contrast, whilst I was expecting some level of backlash about that Michael Jackson documentary this year, it hasn't really happened.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I understand that 'Rock And Roll Part 2' is still a big thing in the US though.
    It's in the movie Joker.

    In the States, Gary Glitter is an extremely obscure figure. Everybody knows that tune, but no one remembers who did it. The man who did is almost as obscure as Jimmy Saville who, as a short-on-talent professional celebrity, is completely unknown over here.

  19. #44
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    "Rock and Roll Part 2" used to be played by some college bands during football games, but you don't hear it there much anymore.
    Lou

    Awarded the Krusty Brand Seal of Approval. It's not just good, it's good enough.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    We are all flawed human beings ("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone...").

    Artists no less than the rest of us. We can learn to separate the artist from their work, and appreciate each for what they are. "Love the sinner, hate the sin." Knowing something terrible about a great artist tarnishes their legacy, but it does not diminish the quality of their work.
    Those are good points. And after reading about Stan Kenton, apparently he was remorseful about what he did. That sort of thing makes a difference.

    I still like Michael Jackson’s music, for instance.

  21. #46
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Anyone who wasn't aware that Jackson was a freakshow when he was alive, wasn't paying attention.

  22. #47
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I'm listening to all the album tracks from the 4 Cream albums I've never heard. I only have a Cream Best Of. It's all the usual stuff, White Room, Sunshine, the usual hits. But now I'm going through all the albums on YT. Lots of trippy, weird tracks. Passing The Time is trippy, and proggy.

  23. #48
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I'm listening to all the album tracks from the 4 Cream albums I've never heard. I only have a Cream Best Of. It's all the usual stuff, White Room, Sunshine, the usual hits. But now I'm going through all the albums on YT. Lots of trippy, weird tracks. Passing The Time is trippy, and proggy.

  24. #49
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    Christ I've heard about 5 tracks from Wheels. What a trippy, proggy masterpiece. And I just heard Toad. Toad was the birth of metal drums. Without Toad there would be no Moby Dick or Rat Salad. Truth.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    What's the difference? They all did something wrong, which would be frowned upon if an ordinary mortal did it. The only difference is Gary Glitter can hardly be seen as an important artist.
    If you were suggesting that they can be dismissed for what they did under any circumstance, I'll have it disagree.

    Unless, I misunderstood your post.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

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