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Thread: Perceptions of PE

  1. #351
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    IMO, any form of rock music that is hypothesized to be it's "highest evolution as an art form" probably isn't, by definition, as it demonstrates a failure to comprehend what rock music is. Rock music is, at best, a middlebrow endeavor.
    If you are trying to say that your opinion outweighs mine you will be relieved to know that I think arguing opinions is futile...its like debating if Chocolate Ice Cream tastes better than Vanilla....and to say Rock Music is a "Middlebrow Endeavour" certainly is a slap-in-the-face for those of us that take pride in creating it

    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    If you're listening to music in general to appreciate the medium (regardless of genre) at its highest level of artistic possibilities (and I would assume that this would be of interest to anybody keeping track of what the artistic apex of rock music might be) then I don't really understand why anybody would be listening to progressive rock, its many virtues notwithstanding. It can't hold a candle, in this regard, to the masterpieces of the great classical composers.

    I like progressive rock because I like the inclusion of elements to rock music that give the style greater possibilities for conceptual and instrumental creativity. Unlike some rock music purists, I am not only not fundamentally opposed to these elements or these possibilities and I think that, in the right hands, these things can take the music to great new places which would be of interest to an audience attuned to this aesthetic. But I'm going to stop short of proclaiming that these elements make it the highest evolution of the genre. Depending on what one most values in rock music, one could make a great case that rock music reached its artistic apex with the punk movement.
    I never said any of what I said was "fact". Perhaps this part was missed in my post:

    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    To me, Progressive Rock is the "highest evolution of rock music" as an "art".
    However, if you are going to benchmark Classical Music, I can easily point out the analogs to Classical Music in a great many of the works in Progressive Rock that I would have a lot harder time locating in other forms of Rock. It should be noted that I can point these out with certain artists in other umbrella genres besides "Rock", but the artists considered under the Progressive Rock label are chock full of them.
    Last edited by klothos; 07-14-2013 at 09:10 PM.

  2. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    If you go back and look at that thread, you'll see my attempts to steer it back.... didn't work.

    Not like this is the end of the world...
    That's why this thread CONFIRMS my perceptions of PE.....

  3. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    First of all, I never said any of what I said was "fact". Perhaps this part was missed in my post:



    Arguing opinions is futile...its like debating if Chocolate Ice Cream tastes better than Vanilla

    However, in my hypothetical Masters Degree Humanities paper, I can easily point out the analogs to Classical Music in Progressive Rock.
    I'd love to know what that is. What, by the way, are the musicological breakthroughs that rock contributed to classical music? There would have to be some, if we're going to talk about the genres being even remotely on equal artistic footing. Rock musicians with somewhat more instrumental ability and with broader interests than their brethren appropriating basic tricks from classical composition to rock music doesn't exactly cut it, in that regard.

  4. #354
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    What, by the way, are the musicological breakthroughs that rock contributed to classical music? There would have to be some, if we're going to talk about the genres being even remotely on equal artistic footing.
    Right -- you want me to answer this between two forms of music: one with an in-depth history that spans centuries with its roots almost 1000 years old and another form of music that is arguably barely 70 years old at best. Even with that unfair disadvantage, there are certain composers that have integrated rock rhythms into their compositions and both Philip Glass and Glenn Branca have both used heavy amplification as a direct result from rock influences. As a side-note, Henze's "Muzen Siziliens" was inspired by the Rolling Stones...and of course, Frank Zappa, who was a composer of many kinds of music including complex orchestral arrangements. ( I will not add the works of death-metal band Dimmu Borgir, because it would be a far tenuous stretch to consider what they do "Classical" in a blanket-sense by any means, although it should be noted that they do create symphonic orchestrations to enhance their metal-band framework that includes recording with the Prague Symphony Orchestra utilizing original scores of varying complexity)

    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Rock musicians with somewhat more instrumental ability and with broader interests than their brethren appropriating basic tricks from classical composition to rock music doesn't exactly cut it, in that regard.
    As a musician, not only do I totally disagree but this is another slap-in-the-face. An instrument is an instrument, as long as the act of making "any object set into vibration by intent or purpose" is in the process. Perceptions of levels of mastery, skill, and command can be applied to any, whether its a violin, washboard, electric guitar, cello, electric bass guitar, spoons, the rims of glasses full of water, synthesizers, piano, a turntable ( I would certainly debate this "for" depending on which DJ we are talking about), banjo, etc AND in any genre. It just so happens that Progressive Rock is one of those genres which, by its nature, utilizes musicians that have what is public-ally accepted as elevated levels of instrumental mastery and compositional skill and apply these to their works. (It should be noted that other genres, such as Jazz, Contemporary Gospel, and many Country artists, also follow a similar mantra but we are talking "Rock")

    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    at the very least -- it would probably make for a very interesting thread discussion/debate here on PE.

    As it stands, this isnt the thread for it
    So much for that idea ........

    For the record: I listen to everything and (ironic from this discussion) I am probably one of the least snobby musicians you will ever meet (this is probably why I am a bit peeved in this discussion but I do realize that you all do not know me personally). You will find AC/DC, Katy Perry, Albert King, Front 242, the Pet Shop Boys, Zac Brown Band, Ohio Express "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy", and all kinds of different stuff on my iPod as well as Prog. At my gig today, I came pulling into the parking lot with Jackyl's "She Loves My Cock" blasting out of my car. Me "Elitist"? Pffft...but just because I LIKE "almost anything" doesnt mean that I hold "almost anything" with equal musical regard...and if I was asked to take all the acts ever associated with "Rock Music" and stack them in terms of advanced musical composition, artistic composition, as well as advanced instrumental skill and mastery, many (if not most) Progressive Rock bands would certainly be on top or somewhere in that neighborhood
    Last edited by klothos; 07-15-2013 at 03:03 AM.

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