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Thread: I have ranked the King Crimson Collectors Club

  1. #1
    Member bigjohnwayne's Avatar
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    I have ranked the King Crimson Collectors Club

    I don't have any of the studio stuff (besides the Nashville rehearsals) or any of the Projekct stuff. Other than that I think I'm only lacking Nashville 2001 and Brighton 1971.



    Here goes:

    Zurich, 1973: If you really like Night Watch, this is very nearly as good. I could go into specifics, but I'd rather complain that the Glasgow Show (another '73 show which features Cat Food and is partially on The Great Deceiver) has its only physical release in one of the huge box sets. Booo.

    Mainz, 1974: Best Doctor Diamond. Best Lament. Great sound, but incomplete recording, just like the other German '74 shows on the list.

    Newcastle, 1972: Muir era soundboard. Two great improvs, one 14 minutes, another at 17 minutes. Cuts out during the bass drop in Larks 2, which is too bad, cuz that parts the most badass.

    Guildford, 1972: Another Muir soundboard. Not a complete show--basically just Larks 1, Book of Saturday, a 25 minute jam (maybe the best I've heard from the Muir group), and some incomplete nubbins. The 17 second excerpt from a separate improv has astounding drumming.

    Central Park, 1974: This is what Fripp said was the best show since the '69 group. He is wrong, but its pretty damn good. Cerberus is a wonderful improv. It is a good audience tape. It is like the Wetton band's Earthbound, in that when its loud it feels like you are about to be hit by an asteroid. This is a pretty ideal setlist, as far as the rather repetitive setlists of the American 1974 tour went. Lead with Schizoid Man, finish with Talking Drum/Larks 2. At the start of Lament, you can hear a very drunk man shout "thatta boy". If you pick one KCCC disc with subpar sound quality, this is the one.

    Toronto, 2015: Does this even belong on the list? Well, its a KCCC according to the DGM store, but its a KCCC Special Edition (KCCCSE?) on the cover, like Ladies of the Road and Live in Chicago. (Live in Chicago would come in at #3 for me, I think if it was on this list.) I hardly listen to this anymore since Vienna, Chicago, and Meltdown are so fantastic, but this is pretty damn good. Larks 1 sounds incredible. The drums sound wonderful in general. Better and cheaper than Radical Action, I think.

    Wiltern, 1995: Maybe my favorite show from '95. Great sound, although the audience sounding a bit distant reduces the excitement a bit. This should have been the official live album released then. Instead we got B'Boom (to screw the bootleggers) and Thrakattak (because King Crimson are maniacs).

    Toronto, 1974: Golden Walnut is one of their best improvs. Clueless and Slightly Slack is not. This might be the last time The Night Watch got played live, and it sounds great, even though Wetton always has trouble with the vocal melody. I associate the last run of 1974 shows with crazy intros to Exiles, but here is a late show where the boys show some restraint.

    Cap d'Agde, 1982: Wonderfully recorded. The bass is audible, even. The stuff sounds very fresh and fast. Get this to go with Absent Lovers and you have yourself a great cross section of the 80s band.

    New Haven, 2003: Is this the last show with Trey Gunn in the band? I don't remember, but it might be. Fripp actually talks to the audience and quizzes them on what the first line of In the Wake of Poseidon was. This show blows the doors off of the Elektrik disc. Best versions of Construkction of Light and Larks 4. Dangerous Curves sounds cool.

    On Broadway, 1995: It is the Wiltern show, but not quite as good, but with better sound. This show has suffered in my mind from being juxtaposed with the planet crushing performances from Mexico City '96 on the Vrooom Vrooom set, but it is among the best '95 live stuff. If Wiltern had been released in the 90s, and I got this years later (rather than the reverse), would I have rated this higher? Probably.

    Jacksonville, 1972: Earthbound, but better. Schizoid Man isn't quite as good. Everything else is better, except the sound. Everyone who claims to hate the sound on Earthbound is a liar, though. They just don't like the Islands band, or don't like the song selection, or hate Boz. Cirkus and Pictures of a City were made for this group. Mel Collins is amazing.

    Zoom Club, 1972: Not good sound, but the most interesting setlist here: All of the Lark's album with 70 minutes of improvs (well, Zoom isn't an improv, but it as simple as one, so I'm calling it an improv.) The drums suffer the most from the sound. Performance is incredible. Spot the riffs from Lament in Zoom.

    Warsaw, 2000: Heavy Construkction, but its all from one show. The fact that Mastelotto could make V Drums sound good makes me a fan of his forever. Best jamming group since '74. Twelve minutes of improv here. I could go for some more shows from 2000. I'm not getting Heaven and Earth, though, so don't tell me to get Heaven and Earth.

    Philadelphia, 1982: Neurotica sounds so cool on this one cuz Belew says the title when Bruford is counting down on the kit. You'd have to listen to it to know what I'm talking about, but trust me. The bass is audible. You can't always say that about the 80s group.

    Beat Club, 1972: Great sound. I should probably rank this higher, but I'm trying to seem cosmopolitan by giving respect to other lineups. This was a TV performance that I think was done in the morning, so the band are supposedly a little tight, but I don't hear it. It is Larks 1, a long jam, and Exiles. The drums sound fantastic. The jam is a half hour, but there are better jams on the other Muir stuff I've heard.

    Munich, 1982: The best version of Waiting Man single handedly drags this disc up by about 7 places. If the idea of flawless 10 minute versions of Waiting Man does not excite you, put this below Boston, '72. The stick sounds ok on this, but the bass isn't very audible. The bass is what brings the excitement to Thela Hun Ginjeet for me.

    Marquee, 1971: Boz has a stuff nose but the recording is great and the performance is very good. In '72, this band tried to do loud and abrasive well. In '71 they tried to do other things too. The improv here probably isn't an improv. It features future parts of Larks 1 and Lament, but mostly makes them sound like the theme song to Ren and Stimpey. Cirkus is big and dumb and slow. It is a sight to behold.

    Kassel, 1974: Like Mainz, except with a killer version of the Great Deceiver.

    Heidelberg, 1974: Like Mainz, except without a killer version of the Great Deceiver.

    The Pier, 1982: This band was awesome live. Not many live recordings I've heard get the sound blend perfect, but this one comes close. The Howler sounds amazing.

    Detroit, 1971: This is the most overrated one, but its still great. People like that its the Islands group, but that it has a wider setlist and good sound. I've heard better versions of most of these songs, but they still sound great, especially Cirkus and Pictures of a City. The audience trolling blues version of In the Court of the Crimson King is here.

    Summit Studios, 1972: Strangest one. A radio show that features some uncharacteristically long jamming for the '72 tour. Also, no VSC3 and no Mellotron. Were they played, but wired directly to some output that bypassed the recording? Who knows. Well, if you want to know what Sailor's Tale sounds like without Mellotron, here it is. Pictures and 21st Century Schizoid Man are good, but sound a little slow. Or maybe they just sound less exciting because this is well recorded and not Earthbound-ish like the rest of the America '72 shows.

    Philadelphia, 1996: At times the band sounds exhausted at this show--the final Double Trio concert ever. Waiting Man and the Sheltering Sky are the rarities here. They sounded way better at London and Mexico City in '96, but maybe just because this show is a very, very dry soundboard. The audience sounds like they were watching it on simulcast from the parking lot.

  2. #2
    Member bigjohnwayne's Avatar
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    Plymouth Guildhall, 1971: Very early Boz lineup. This features a really good version of In the Court of the Crimson King, believe it or not. The sound is great except for part of Get Thy Bearings, which isn't a good song anyway. If you want another loud sax song, just play Pictures of a City twice.

    Berkeley, 1982: Great performance. Inaudible bass.

    Boston, 1972: Audience tape from the Earthbound era. Top shelf performance, though. Fripp and Collins tear it up in Formentera Lady, for some reason. Maybe they do this on other performances of that song, but I've never heard them go so hard.

    Milan, 2003: Like New Haven but not as fun. Better drum sounds than in 2000, but I like the blend of compositions and improv better in 2000. Or maybe I just don't get the Deception of the Thrush.

    Orlando, 1972: Jacksonville, but longer. Maybe this belongs higher.

    Denver, 1972: They only remembered to hit "record" after they played Pictures of a City. That docks it at least 5 spots. The tapes sound overpowered by the volume in a couple places, including the start of 21st Century Schizoid Man. When I listen to it it makes me feel like I'm losing my hearing, even when I play it on low volume. Its quite exhilarating in that way.

    Marquee, 1969: The '69 band was a different group live. The legend doesn't exactly come across on tape. This has I Talk to the Wind, which is good and listenable, and a bonus track (Trees) which is good but not listenable. Epitaph is only 3:20. The improv here is the best I've heard from the original band.

    Fillmore East, 1969: Great sounding tapes of King Crimson playing part of Court of the Crimson King, Pictures of a City, Epitaph, and 21st Century Schizoid Man, twice on two consecutive shows. If they find the rest of these shows, that recording would be top 5. These are the best performances I've heard of this group. Here, though, you only get three songs and the last couple minutes of Court.

    Bath, 1981: In some recent liner notes, Fripp rates the 1981 tour alongside '69, '74, and the Eight Headed Beast as the definitive King Crimson live groups. It is a shame that there isn't another physical release to compare to this lone representative of 1981--so early the band was still going by Discipline and not KC. You get used to the sound if you keep with it, but it really is poor. Better 1981 recordings exist on DGMlive.

    Chicago, 1995: Like Wiltern but not as good. They Double Trio rode this setlist into the ground, but damn, what a setlist. Step One: Take the Absent Lovers set. Step Two: Cut the stuff that sounds 80s. Step three: add new loud compositions Step four: Bring back the Talking Drum, but only sometimes.

    Hyde Park, 1969: Embryonic. It sounds better than I expected. This probably reduced the hippies to paranoid tears. Get thy Bearings is terrible, no matter who sings it. Greg Lake makes it sound slightly lounge-y, which is good I suppose.

    Nashville rehearsals, 1997: This band is better in concert than in the studio. Here is stuff that wasn't considered good enough to create an album. In all seriousness, though, this is very, very different from what the Double Trio had been up to before. It sounds way more like the Projekcts.

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    Interesting post! I was in the KCCC for 10 years, so I own Vols. 1-40. I mostly agree with the ranking. One thing I really liked about the club is that unlike a box set you only got 4-5 discs a year., one every few months. So I actually played the hell out of every single one of those discs. Nonetheless with 40 volumes enough was enough. I did just buy #48 though Newcastle '72 with Muir. That may be one of the best of all.

    The other great thing about the series was that I found I really enjoyed the Islands lineup live, even if the studio album isn't too great IMHO. My favorite is probably Orlando. Sharp, powerful, committed. They did not sound like a band falling apart on that one.

    I also would have been interested in 1 or 2 more shows from 2000. Not enough to buy the box set but it is an under-appreciated era.
    Last edited by arturs; 09-30-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  4. #4
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    What about The Pier NYC show from 82?
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  5. #5
    Member bigjohnwayne's Avatar
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    I like it a lot! Of the KCCC stuff by that lineup, I only like Cap d'Agde better from start to finish. (Munich '82 I rate higher cuz I love the Waiting Man, but the sound is more balanced on that Pier show for sure).

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    I'm with you on Munich '82! Great Waiting Man. That song is so powerful @ 10 minutes. I wonder why they trimmed it back to 5 or 6 for the '84 tour??! It just becomes a catchy pop tune at the shorter length. But really all the '82 shows are very good. Much better than the thin production of the Beat LP.

  7. #7
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    Interesting post! I was in the KCCC for 10 years, so I own Vols. 1-40. I mostly agree with the ranking. One thing I really liked about the club is that unlike a box set you only got 4-5 discs a year., one every few months. So I actually played the hell out of every single one of those discs. Nonetheless with 40 volumes enough was enough. I did just buy #48 though Newcastle '72 with Muir. That may be one of the best of all.

    The other great thing about the series was that I found I really enjoyed the Islands lineup live, even if the studio album isn't too great IMHO. My favorite is probably Orlando. Sharp, powerful, committed. They did not sound like a band falling apart on that one.

    I also would have been interested in 1 or 2 more shows from 2000. Not enough to buy the box set but it is an under-appreciated era.
    Sadly getting the Heaven & Earth box really won't give you that much 2000 tour anyway. But I agree...the most under represented era (in physical form) would benefit greatly from an additional 3 or so shows in the KCCC set.
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