Chris Squire: Improvisation player

[Yeswave]

I never considered him to be much of an improviser.

Listen to some early show if you get the chance, there plenty of free-form/improv playing. "It's Love" from Gaellic Park '71 springs immediately to mind. A quick check you you tube found it;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBi06LSKpjY

[Watanabe]

In the 70s he was good enough at varying fills and little ad-libs aside from the more obviously structured parts of his lines and done inside the already defined musical structure.Not just robotically playing the same lines night after night, but able to jam on his lines, but as far as being someone you would want to hear as a varied improvising soloist then no, he's far from that.

His bass solos became a bit of a repetitive joke eventually imo.

[ItalProgRules]

His solo brought down the house at the show I attended last summer. I wouldn't call that a joke.

Any bass player who can hold an audience spellbound and get an enthusiastic ovation for a bass solo is doing something right.

Not all YES audience members are Proggers, they aren't as anal and picky and snooty as we are.

[Scott Bails]

Not all YES audience members are Proggers, they aren't as anal and picky and snooty as we are.

That's part of the problem.

[Rufus]

Just listen to Live at Leeds or Live at Hull. Plenty of improv there.

Bill.

Have done many times Bill, I hear Big John improv. when Townsend goes off on one but it's in much the same way as Squire did when Howe use to stretch out. I'm struggling to see what the disfference is but maybe its just me ?

[Wisdomview]

He's certainly not a fantastic improviser, but his live solos on "The Fish" and "Ritual" feature fair amounts of improv. Comments that he is "terrible" or "can't improvise" are not made by anybody with a clue, IMO.

Overall, it's not really his bag.

I stated that he really can't. I do play in numerous improv bands, but guess I don't have a clue.............

Any musician can riff around a bit on the spot; hell, that's even how most rock songs/ideas are written, but Squire really isn't an improviser in the true sense of the word. He doesn't stray far from his original ideas on 'The Fish' and 'Ritual' and there is nothing wrong with that. Players who are known for they're improvisation tend to change keys, rhythm patterns, and phrases, break from comfort zones, etc. way more than Squire has been known to in a live context with Yes. Again, there is nothing wrong with that, but to call him an 'improviser' would be foolish. Of course IMHO.

[JJ88]

To be honest most of his 'improvs' always sounded the same to me- see also Brian May's long guitar solos! It works in concert situations I dare say.

I can't think of much in the way of John Entwistle played in terms of 'bass solos' in concerts, listen to what he's playing within the songs though and I see what Adm.Kirk means. See also Jack Bruce. Very adventurous players.

[GuitarGeek]

I can't think of much in the way of John Entwistle played in terms of 'bass solos' in concerts, listen to what he's playing within the songs though and I see what Adm.Kirk means. .

Yeah, it's mainly in the songs. Of course, My Generation had a bass solo, but he tended to play it the same every night, judging from the live recordings I'm familiar with. I know sometimes there'd be a bass solo on Shaking All Over, but I can't remember if he does that on Live At Leeds or not. The last couple times I saw them before Entwistle passed away, he took a bass solo during 5:15.

[enpdllp]

Listen to some early show if you get the chance, there plenty of free-form/improv playing. "It's Love" from Gaellic Park '71 springs immediately to mind. A quick check you you tube found it;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBi06LSKpjY

Thanks for the link, I had never heard that one before. Unless we have another version of this song played differently, I don't think we can judge if what Squire did on this track is "improv-playing" or something that was already rehearsed or worked before the actual performance. I like Squire's tone and playing very much, but I would not consider him as a good improviser. Not every bass player can be a Jaco Pastorius or a Cachao.

[trurl]

A lot of what passes for improvising is more akin to reaching into a bag of known licks and pulling out different ones at random. Real jazz-type "I'm hearing a new melody in my head and it's going right to my fingers" improv is more rare in the rock world. Either is valid in its context. Guys like Tony Banks never deviate from the script so-to-speak and that doesn't lessen them as players or writers. I tend to put Squire mostly in that category; they compose with forethought, not off-the-cuff. For the most part.

[Wisdomview]

A lot of what passes for improvising is more akin to reaching into a bag of known licks and pulling out different ones at random. Real jazz-type "I'm hearing a new melody in my head and it's going right to my fingers" improv is more rare in the rock world. Either is valid in its context. Guys like Tony Banks never deviate from the script so-to-speak and that doesn't lessen them as players or writers. I tend to put Squire mostly in that category; they compose with forethought, not off-the-cuff. For the most part.

Bingo!!

[Paulrus]

Listen to some early show if you get the chance, there plenty of free-form/improv playing. "It's Love" from Gaellic Park '71 springs immediately to mind.

Yeah, that was really Yes at their peak as a jamming improv band. Another vid on that page is this one that most of us have seen by now (though this is a good, complete copy):



Note how at around 5:45 in you actually see Yes in the studio putting together the live version of "The Fish". So no, Jeff -- that was an arranged solo, not improvised. Bill even says Yes songs are "head arrangements -- they're remembered".

But that doesn't mean the group couldn't *try* to improvise, as songs like "It's Love" or "Everydays" proves. In fact, in the early days Steve was clearly the most capable and daring improviser (other than Bill, perhaps), though sometimes with disastrous results!

[Wisdomview]

Yeah, Steve and especially Bill were the improvisers in the band.

[Corbie]

The best improviser, ever.

Really? Examples please, Sir.

I never considered Squire an improviser at all. A monster bassist, I love the guy but improv? Don't think so. Even the "Fish" solos seem worked out and more or less identical each night. For a good English rock improviser from the same era, with a similarly gnarly sound, Mr. Wetton has always been a good bet.

[Corbie]

A lot of what passes for improvising is more akin to reaching into a bag of known licks and pulling out different ones at random. Real jazz-type "I'm hearing a new melody in my head and it's going right to my fingers" improv is more rare in the rock world. Either is valid in its context. Guys like Tony Banks never deviate from the script so-to-speak and that doesn't lessen them as players or writers. I tend to put Squire mostly in that category; they compose with forethought, not off-the-cuff. For the most part.

Beautifully put. Agreed.

[N_Singh]

I absolutely love the QPR show. Stunning performance, despite the crappy ass resolution. Only drawback is was the brief improv portion between Howe and Moraz, every one else lays out. That seemed to be the main thing for many bands to do--everyone else lays out, guitarist solos for 28 minutes. (See Dazed and Confused).

Moraz was, in my view the best improviser in the band. His fingerprints and sensibility are all over Relayer. But even he couldn't save the pitiful attempt at trading 4s on the QPR show. (Yours is no Disgrace?)

[Rufus]

Much of 'Fish out of Water ' sounds improvised to me, much like Bruford era KC . Sounds as if they improvised on extended pieces like 'Silently Falling ' & 'Safe ' & just let the song fade out during the editing ! Listen to Bruford , Moraz & Mel Collins...sounds brill but not in a structured & rehearsed way !

[JJ88]

Patrick Moraz had a jazz sensibility few of their other players had. But watching that QPR show, I wasn't keen on his playing on some of their earlier material- I find Yes' music of the 1971-2 period quite tightly written really (in spite of the lazy 'noodling' criticisms!). I find 'Close To The Edge' on that performance rather chaotic to be honest. Maybe the mix doesn't help, but it's almost like Moraz is in another band during that track- there's one bit where he rushes way ahead of the band in the 'I Get Up I Get Down' section.

'Ritual' on the other hand was at its best when he was in the band, it has more of a freewheeling feel to it so he takes to that more. And of course 'Relayer' is an amazing record. To be honest I think that sense of wild creativity has been missing from their subsequent albums.

[GuitarGeek]

Patrick Moraz had a jazz sensibility few of their other players had. But watching that QPR show, I wasn't keen on his playing on some of their earlier material- I find Yes' music of the 1971-2 period quite tightly written really (in spite of the lazy 'noodling' criticisms!). I find 'Close To The Edge' on that performance rather chaotic to be honest. Maybe the mix doesn't help, but it's almost like Moraz is in another band during that track- there's one bit where he rushes way ahead of the band in the 'I Get Up I Get Down' section.

'Ritual' on the other hand was at its best when he was in the band, it has more of a freewheeling feel to it so he takes to that more. And of course 'Relayer' is an amazing record. To be honest I think that sense of wild creativity has been missing from their subsequent albums.

I'll have to watch the QPR video again, because I never really had a problem with anyone's playing on it. There's a couple bits where the synths drift out of tune, but that was the life a "cutting edge musician staying on top of the latest technology" circa 1975. Frankly, I'm more disturbed by the Hammond organ deputizing for the pipe organ on Close To The Edge (I guess somebody got tired of playing along to the pipe organ tape...or maybe they were playing the pipe organ tape, but since this is the QPR video we're talking about, it's just MIA in the mix). And I imagine the monitoring might not have been that great, either. I can't imagine I Get Up I Get Down being an easy piece to perform musically. Somewhere around here I also have that show from the Boston Gardens, from King Biscuit, I guess it is, I'll have to give that a listen to see if whatever irregularities that occur during just the one show, or if it was a nightly basis with Moraz.

[GuitarGeek]

Really? Examples please, Sir.

I never considered Squire an improviser at all. A monster bassist, I love the guy but improv? Don't think so. Even the "Fish" solos seem worked out and more or less identical each night. For a good English rock improviser from the same era, with a similarly gnarly sound, Mr. Wetton has always been a good bet.

How about Mr. Hopper? Maybe not quite a "rock" musician, but surely he's extemporizing at least some of what we here on some of those Soft Machine shows from that era.

[GuitarGeek]

I absolutely love the QPR show. Stunning performance, despite the crappy ass resolution. Only drawback is was the brief improv portion between Howe and Moraz, every one else lays out. That seemed to be the main thing for many bands to do--everyone else lays out, guitarist solos for 28 minutes. (See Dazed and Confused).

What improv portion you talking about? You mean the acoustic set in the middle of the show? Those are written compositions they're playing. Steve got his solo guitar piece (two of them, actually), Patrick got to do a solo piano piece, and Alan and Chris played solos during Ritual. So everyone got to do their "cadenza" thing. Except Jon, he doesn't even get to hum the Rite Of Spring opening here.

[N_Singh]

What improv portion you talking about? You mean the acoustic set in the middle of the show? Those are written compositions they're playing. Steve got his solo guitar piece (two of them, actually), Patrick got to do a solo piano piece, and Alan and Chris played solos during Ritual. So everyone got to do their "cadenza" thing. Except Jon, he doesn't even get to hum the Rite Of Spring opening here.

I think it was a break during Y is No D. Everyone else lays out, Howe and Moraz trade 4s.
EDIT--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoJjxD5s-Cw

[Brian Griffin]

My boy CS is a lot of things, but a great improviser isn't one of them

Doesn't mean he doesn't set the standard

BG

[trurl]

I have to think Moraz had no monitors at all for chunks of QPR. It was a pretty huge show for the day. He is for sure a couple beats out of sync on CttE and if memory serves he plays chunks of YinD in a different key from the rest of the band. That, or he really was as big a space cadet as Jon has implied, but based on what I saw when I saw him with both Yes and the Moodies that wasn't the case...

[wideopenears]

Beautifully put. Agreed.

Yeah, Trurl's post is spot-on.

There's a bit of latitude in Chris's playing, and perhaps a bit more in Entwistle's playing....but not so much. In rock music, I think Phil Lesh is the most improvisatory player I've heard. Comparing any of these guys to jazz guys, like Pastorius or Clarke, isn't really too valid, regardless of the time line. If you go back to the influences Pastorius and Clarke stem from, you'll find the classic upright bass players (as well as horn players, in terms of soloing) and the classic R & B guys to a great extent. Look, walking 4 to the bar over changes in a jazz context requires more improv skill than most rock and roll, even the proggy stuff.