Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: SAGA

  1. #1

    SAGA

    As Progstock is coming up, I am brushing up on my Saga. I have never seen them, and I'm only somewhat familiar with them. I have had Worlds Apart for a long time; I've had Generation 13 for a few years, and I just bought Silent Knight.

    A couple of questions:

    1. What's the deal with the non-continuous "Chapters" included in the song titles? For example, in Silent Knight, there is "Don't Be Late (Chapter Two)" and "Too Much to Lose (Chapter Seven)". Worlds Apart has a Chapter 5 and Chapter 8.

    2. When Saga plays a prog festival like Progstock, do they have a more 'proggy' set list than when they are a solo act in Canada (for example)?

  2. #2
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    N of Clearwater, Florida
    Posts
    1,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Twelfth Earl of Mar View Post
    As Progstock is coming up, I am brushing up on my Saga. I have never seen them, and I'm only somewhat familiar with them. I have had Worlds Apart for a long time; I've had Generation 13 for a few years, and I just bought Silent Knight.

    A couple of questions:

    1. What's the deal with the non-continuous "Chapters" included in the song titles? For example, in Silent Knight, there is "Don't Be Late (Chapter Two)" and "Too Much to Lose (Chapter Seven)". Worlds Apart has a Chapter 5 and Chapter 8.

    2. When Saga plays a prog festival like Progstock, do they have a more 'proggy' set list than when they are a solo act in Canada (for example)?
    This is their first time playing Progstock as you know, but they have played on Cruise to the Edge, and I think that's about all for the prog based concerts, and the rest have been regular Saga concerts.
    I believe most of their setlists are pretty much the same, with the classics dominating most of the setlist, except for 2 and sometimes 3 different songs rarely played. They have said on FB when asked this question, they do have some surprises in store for their fans.
    I have all their albums and DVD concerts. For an idea of what they will probably sound like, we can look at the So Good So Far DVD filmed last year at the end leg of their European tour.
    (there are several more official videos from that show you can look at).

    In 2005 Saga performed the entire Chapters in order and it can be purchased on CD(2cds) called Saga Chapters Live.
    I personally don't know why they recorded them out of order, but I'm sure another Saga fan will step up to let us know why.
    Here's a link to the Chapters Live on Amazon.
    https://www.amazon.com/Chapters-Live-Saga/dp/B000BLI3CA
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  3. #3
    The idea behind the Chapters is that they had a basic storyline written when recording their first album but they didn't have the whole thing written. So they decided to record it piecemeal across their first four albums and do it out of order. I don't know if thats because they had chapters 4 and 6 written first or they just wanted to do it out of order. The basic story is of Albert Einstein's brain, which was preserved after his death (Images) and given to aliens (Don't Be Late) to put into a robotic body (Its Time). Albert dreams of war and devastation (chapters 4-6) and awakens (chapter 7) to realize that humanity must grow up and issues a warning (No Stranger). I don't think they ever intended on adding more chapters when they originally wrote it but did so over three later albums in the 90s/00s. As Top Cat said, they wound up performing the entire thing once and released it live. I think its the only time they played all 16 chapters. Its too bad they didn't videotape it.

    Anyway, what you would see live is Humble Stance, You're Not Alone, Don't Be Late and On the Loose for sure as they always play those songs. The rest of the show will be a mix of early, mid and later day stuff. Pretty much all their stuff is a nice blend of hard rock, pop and prog so I don't know that they would go out of their way to play stuff that might appeal more to the prog audience.

  4. #4
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    N of Clearwater, Florida
    Posts
    1,336
    I discovered Saga with the World's Apart album and have been a dedicated fan ever since. Had a chance in the 80's to see them in Detroit but never made it to the show.

    I don't think I've ever thought of Saga as being a Progressive Rock band, but they aren't hard rock or pop either.
    Always hard to put them in a category but I think during my record and cd buying days in brick and mortar stores they were always listed in the Rock sections.
    I think their early embrace of synthesizers, most notably the Moog synths and having so many synthesizers placed them in some people's minds as Progressive, but I find their composition smissing many of the elements associated with prog music.

    I love them for what they are, they ae SAGA and they're awesome!!

    UN SAGA!!
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I discovered Saga with the World's Apart album and have been a dedicated fan ever since.
    I never listened to Saga apart from "On the Loose" until 2001 when a friend lent me House of Cards and liked half of the songs and then got Worlds Apart and kicked myself for not buying it in the 80s. I just read that the Rupin Hine produced it. Damn.

  6. #6
    House of Cards, Network, Trust are all great CDs. From the early days, I think Heads or Tales is even better than Worlds Apart.

  7. #7
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    OKC, OK
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    This is their first time playing Progstock as you know, but they have played on Cruise to the Edge, and I think that's about all for the prog based concerts, and the rest have been regular Saga concerts.
    I believe most of their setlists are pretty much the same, with the classics dominating most of the setlist, except for 2 and sometimes 3 different songs rarely played. They have said on FB when asked this question, they do have some surprises in store for their fans.
    I have all their albums and DVD concerts. For an idea of what they will probably sound like, we can look at the So Good So Far DVD filmed last year at the end leg of their European tour.
    (there are several more official videos from that show you can look at).

    In 2005 Saga performed the entire Chapters in order and it can be purchased on CD(2cds) called Saga Chapters Live.
    I personally don't know why they recorded them out of order, but I'm sure another Saga fan will step up to let us know why.
    Here's a link to the Chapters Live on Amazon.
    https://www.amazon.com/Chapters-Live-Saga/dp/B000BLI3CA

    Man that's just a scorching rendition of HS! The dueling solos between Jim & Ian bring tears to my eyes every time.

  8. #8
    Start at the beginning with Saga, Images at Twilight and Silent Knight. Great albums. Went more AOR after that (still good), then a bit wierd, then took a break and came back heavier.

  9. #9
    Member dropforge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,642
    Silent Knight (1980) is my favorite. It's the perfect hybrid of symph and AOR, with the needle slightly in favor of symph. The songs that bookend it, "Don't Be Late" and "Careful Where You Step," are two of their finest songs.

    In case anyone doesn't already know it, all of the synthesizers used across Saga's first five studio albums, up through Heads or Tales (1983), and the live album In Transit, were supplied by Moog. That means multiple Minimoogs, the Multimoog, the Liberation, you name it. I think they even used a Micro. No Roland, no Yamaha, no Korg. If you like good melodic prog fueled by Moog technology, you can't go wrong with any of those albums.

    As we know, the quality of Saga's music took a dive for a few, but starting with the mid-90s concept album Generation 13, things began to look up again. They closed the decade with Full Circle, which IMO is one of their best albums. I also like House of Cards, Trust, 10,000 Days and the recent Sagacity. Don't care for Marathon, and Network is decent.

  10. #10
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    N of Clearwater, Florida
    Posts
    1,336
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Silent Knight (1980) is my favorite. It's the perfect hybrid of symph and AOR, with the needle slightly in favor of symph. The songs that bookend it, "Don't Be Late" and "Careful Where You Step," are two of their finest songs.

    In case anyone doesn't already know it, all of the synthesizers used across Saga's first five studio albums, up through Heads or Tales (1983), and the live album In Transit, were supplied by Moog. That means multiple Minimoogs, the Multimoog, the Liberation, you name it. I think they even used a Micro. No Roland, no Yamaha, no Korg. If you like good melodic prog fueled by Moog technology, you can't go wrong with any of those albums.

    As we know, the quality of Saga's music took a dive for a few, but starting with the mid-90s concept album Generation 13, things began to look up again. They closed the decade with Full Circle, which IMO is one of their best albums. I also like House of Cards, Trust, 10,000 Days and the recent Sagacity. Don't care for Marathon, and Network is decent.
    Not sure whether you meant Moog supplied as in provided Saga with synths, which as far as I know was not the case.
    It is true they used Moog synths including the PolyMoog but Saga was never endorsed by Moog.
    I'm pretty sure they bought all that gear themselves without any assistance or provision from Moog.

    Again, I may be confused as to your intent when you wrote "supplied" and I just wanted to mention they weren't endorsed. Apologies if I read it wrong.

    Yes, all of that analog synth yumminess on full display in those earlier albums.
    Here's a video of Saga live for the Rock am Ring concert in 1985. At the .033 mark you can hear Jim Crichton's MicroMoog is out of tune and he finds himself scrambling to bring it back in tune while the band plays on.
    Last edited by Top Cat; 08-30-2019 at 02:55 PM.
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  11. #11
    Member gearHed289's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    [I]In case anyone doesn't already know it, all of the synthesizers used across Saga's first five studio albums, up through Heads or Tales (1983), and the live album In Transit, were supplied by Moog. That means multiple Minimoogs, the Multimoog, the Liberation, you name it. I think they even used a Micro. No Roland, no Yamaha, no Korg.
    I remember watching an old concert on YouTube and noticing the large amount of moog stuff on stage. I believe there may have been a Memorymoog or two, along with the other stuff you mentioned. And when I saw them open for Tull, there was at least one set of Taurus pedals on stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    I just read that the Rupin Hine produced it. Damn.
    *Rupert. He also produced Heads or Tails. Maybe more?

    Going to see them October 16.

  12. #12
    Member dropforge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,642
    Quote Originally Posted by gearHed289 View Post
    I remember watching an old concert on YouTube and noticing the large amount of moog stuff on stage. I believe there may have been a Memorymoog or two, along with the other stuff you mentioned. And when I saw them open for Tull, there was at least one set of Taurus pedals on stage.
    Yep, all that good stuff. I dug up the gearlist from an old review I did of their Silhouette concert DVD.

    (Pairs)
    Minimoog
    Memorymoog
    Multimoog
    Polymoog

    Moog Liberation (used by Jim Gilmour for the solo during "Ice Nice")
    Micromoog (used by drummer Steve Negus)

    That's a nice heap of Moog gear on one stage!

    Now that I think about it, there might have been a PPG Wave 2.0 up there. Jim Gilmour had one.

  13. #13
    Member dropforge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,642
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I'm pretty sure they bought all that gear themselves without any assistance or provision from Moog.
    They bought it, but I think they did get a freebie or two somewhere along the road.

  14. #14
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    N of Clearwater, Florida
    Posts
    1,336
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Yep, all that good stuff. I dug up the gearlist from an old review I did of their Silhouette concert DVD.

    (Pairs)
    Minimoog
    Memorymoog
    Multimoog
    Polymoog

    Moog Liberation (used by Jim Gilmour for the solo during "Ice Nice")
    Micromoog (used by drummer Steve Negus)

    That's a nice heap of Moog gear on one stage!

    Now that I think about it, there might have been a PPG Wave 2.0 up there. Jim Gilmour had one.
    Yep he did use the PPG for awhile and they also used a D50(I believe during the time they were a trio when Jim G and Steve Negus left the band). I remember as a member of the Saga forum(waaaay back) they auctioned it off within the Saga community. I already had one so didn't bid on it, and I still have that sweet D50 I bought new, sitting here in my home studio.
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post

    In case anyone doesn't already know it, all of the synthesizers used across Saga's first five studio albums, up through Heads or Tales (1983), and the live album In Transit, were supplied by Moog...No Roland, no Yamaha, no Korg.
    .
    Not true. They used, at the very least, a Yamaha CS-80. Jim Gilmour mentions it on the Silhouette DVD. He says he had one before he joined the band, so he brought into the band's music on Silent Knight, if not the subsequent albums.

    But it is true they used a lot of Moog gear. Jim Chricton said that one point they did a show in Buffalo, and some people from Moog Music came to the show. After the concert, there was talk of an endorsement deal, and Jim pointed to the stage and said "I think you're about 3 years too late"

  16. #16
    Member dropforge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,642
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Not true. They used, at the very least, a Yamaha CS-80. Jim Gilmour mentions it on the Silhouette DVD. He says he had one before he joined the band, so he brought into the band's music on Silent Knight, if not the subsequent albums.

    But it is true they used a lot of Moog gear. Jim Chricton said that one point they did a show in Buffalo, and some people from Moog Music came to the show. After the concert, there was talk of an endorsement deal, and Jim pointed to the stage and said "I think you're about 3 years too late"
    You are correct, sir. I forgot about the CS-80. And I should have remembered it, because you hear its distinctive "BRRREEEEYOOOO!" at the beginning of "Careful Where You Step."

    Hey, man, it's spelled Crichton.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Twelfth Earl of Mar View Post
    1. What's the deal with the non-continuous "Chapters" included in the song titles? For example, in Silent Knight, there is "Don't Be Late (Chapter Two)" and "Too Much to Lose (Chapter Seven)". Worlds Apart has a Chapter 5 and Chapter 8.
    Initially they thought it was a fun idea to do the chapters with eight planned out and two on every album. But to make it obvious there were multiple chapters to their record label (and fans), they did the odd numbering. And in the process hoped it would encourage the label give them at least four albums to finish. So a little nudge to help them get started and then established.

    I prefer their albums with a little more rock and less pop. So I prefer the first four followed by a long gap until Full Circle, House of Cards, Marathon and 10,000 Days.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 5150 View Post
    I prefer their albums with a little more rock and less pop. So I prefer the first four followed by a long gap until Full Circle, House of Cards, Marathon and 10,000 Days.
    This is (almost) exactly me, but I think the songs got more interesting - not just more rock but definitely a major factor. I'd add to the above that much of Trust and Network sucked me in over time and that Human Condition is very good and better than the final two.

    I've tried to get into Heads and Tails...

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Marietta GA
    Posts
    141
    I’ve been a fan since their very first album....so them twice back in the late 70’s and early 80’s.....excellent group! I have almost all, especially studio releases.....but, I thought at the end of last year they called it quits. Did I just dream that? Is everyone still in the group that was?
    So much music....so little time....

  20. #20
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    N of Clearwater, Florida
    Posts
    1,336
    Quote Originally Posted by flatliner View Post
    I’ve been a fan since their very first album....so them twice back in the late 70’s and early 80’s.....excellent group! I have almost all, especially studio releases.....but, I thought at the end of last year they called it quits. Did I just dream that? Is everyone still in the group that was?
    At the end of the tour last year, Jim C announced he couldn't do anymore shows in the future. It's believed he's just burned out, and I don't think he ever fully gave himself time to mourn the loss of their son Will. I also know he spoke publicly about his disgust of people downloading their music for free or for the tiny amount they get from streaming, but most likely it was burnout.
    It's unknown if he will ever return, so they've got a new bass player, Dusty Chesterfield from Canada:
    Experience FROM LINKiN:

    Saturday Night Jive Entertainment
    Co-Owner / Guitar
    Saturday Night Jive Entertainment

    Jan 2010 – Present9 years 8 months

    Toronto, Canada Area
    Wedding / Corporate / Party Band / Entertainment Company

    Let Saturday Night Jive bring your party's musical and entertainment vision to life.Wedding / Corporate / Party Band / Entertainment Company

    Let Saturday Night Jive bring your party's musical and entertainment vision to life.
    Cover Boys Entertainment
    Guitar / Bass
    Cover Boys Entertainment

    Jan 2008 – Present11 years 8 months

    Toronto, Canada Area
    Cover Boys is a high energy cover band. We play all over the city, private parties, corporate parties, anything with the word "party" in it.Cover Boys is a high energy cover band. We play all over the city, private parties, corporate parties, anything with the word "party" in it.
    Dusty Chesterfield Productions
    Owner
    Dusty Chesterfield Productions

    Jan 2005 – Present14 years 8 months
    A music producer for the last 10 years, recording artist, mix engineer... Running protools 11, Neumann mic's, Focusrite pre's, can cover any style from rock/pop/metal/jazz/hip hop... Etc.


    The band has denied they ever called it quits, but said with the loss of Jim C they didn't know if they would continue as Saga anymore.
    Cooler heads prevailed after a well deserved rest and they started playing a gig here and there, with the idea of no full tours, but small tours and gigs now and then.
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  21. #21
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Vallejo, CA
    Posts
    631
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I don't think I've ever thought of Saga as being a Progressive Rock band, but they aren't hard rock or pop either.
    They're WEIRD (and I mean that in a good way). I mean, even "On the Loose," their biggest single, which has a nice, catchy AOR chorus, has that whole syncopated midsection where Ian Crichton and Jim Gilmour are doubling each other on these 32nd-note runs that go up and down the scale in the most maniacal way. I mean, who would do that in a pop song?
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  22. #22
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    9,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    The band has denied they ever called it quits, but said with the loss of Jim C they didn't know if they would continue as Saga anymore.
    Cooler heads prevailed after a well deserved rest and they started playing a gig here and there, with the idea of no full tours, but small tours and gigs now and then.
    Their appearance on CttE a few years ago was definitely promoted as being their last concert. I'm glad they're still doing shows though, even if none that work for me. The only time I saw them live was at the CttE show they did before the one that was billed as their last.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by dropforge View Post
    Silent Knight (1980) is my favorite. It's the perfect hybrid of symph and AOR, with the needle slightly in favor of symph. The songs that bookend it, "Don't Be Late" and "Careful Where You Step," are two of their finest songs.

    In case anyone doesn't already know it, all of the synthesizers used across Saga's first five studio albums, up through Heads or Tales (1983), and the live album In Transit, were supplied by Moog. That means multiple Minimoogs, the Multimoog, the Liberation, you name it. I think they even used a Micro. No Roland, no Yamaha, no Korg. If you like good melodic prog fueled by Moog technology, you can't go wrong with any of those albums.
    I think their original keyboardist Peter Rochon left the band to work for Moog. But Pics I've seen of Gilmour from 80/81 I definitely see a CS-80, and World Apart definitely has a good deal of PPG wave on it.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •