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Thread: Pink Floyd "The Later Years: 1987-2019" 17-disc box set 11/29/2019

  1. #301
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Final Cut is the only Floyd album I ever actively got rid of.
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  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I don't actually have a side in the Gilmour vs. Waters debate...
    Neither do I. I think there was a Beatles-like thing about PF in the way the members complemented each other. Gilmour brought a strong melodic sense, Wright brought interesting chord sequences and Waters brought concepts and lyrics. It's clear that, as Wright's compositional input and Gilmour was left as the only counterpoint to Waters' preoccupation with concepts and lyrics at the expense of "richer" music, the band lost much of their musical greatness. And by the time of "The Final Cut", this became very problematic. Waters uses the same limited kind of chord sequences and there is a sameness to the material that makes you sorely miss Wright's sense of harmonic diversity and uncommon chord sequences. Now, if you actively dislike Waters' personal obsessions, I understand why you're getting off the boat at this point. I like the emotional intensity of the album and what (little) is left of the Floyd greatness (Gilmour's guitar solos, the cinematic production), and the all-analog soundstage (piano, Hammond, orchestra). Post-Waters Floyd obviously restored some of the musical balance, although neither Gilmour nor Wright had much to say that was new or vital at this point (and Wright only became involved in the writing again on "The Division Bell"), and from a lyrics standpoint the whole thing felt like a parody, and certainly had none of the depth or genuineness of Waters' best work. Sure, with 3/4ths of the classic line-up it was a better concert proposition than Waters and a bunch of talented impersonators. But, with a few exceptions, the new material was (imho) very shallow compared with the 1970s stuff.
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  3. #303
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    (I don't actually have a side in the Gilmour vs. Waters debate...I like/love both for their respective approaches to PF)
    I can also appreciate both and their contributions to PF. Waters was IMO, one of the best (if not THE best) Rock lyricists in the DSOTM-WYWH period, before he lost it with unchecked cynicism. Gilmour has always been one of the best Rock guitarists of all time and I like his singing voice too.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  4. #304
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Why ? There is nothing wrong with the production or mix on that one. It's superbly produced.
    Indeed. It is one of the finest sound productions ever.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Final Cut is the only Floyd album I ever actively got rid of.
    That's the only one I never even bought and I got rid of The Wall.

  6. #306
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Why ? There is nothing wrong with the production or mix on that one. It's superbly produced.
    I also happen to like it. Nowhere near as much as some of what came before, but probably more than anything that came after.
    Absolutely, quite in the line of exceptional record productions since AHM, which was tops for its time.

    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    Yeah, it's a very nice album for all the negativity that went into it's creation. I don't like it as much as Momentary Lapse of Reason, but I do quite like it.

    (I don't actually have a side in the Gilmour vs. Waters debate...I like/love both for their respective approaches to PF)
    I totally understand that one doesn't like TFC because of its gloom & doom. I always loved cynicism in lyrics (which is why I still think TAAB is the best one out there), but it's got to be understandable by the masses (which Floyd did quite well until The Wall), but yeah Waters' solo stuff and TFC do lack the universal quality of its predecessor, probably because Roger forgot to see if the fans were following him in his brain meanders.

    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Neither do I. I think there was a Beatles-like thing about PF in the way the members complemented each other. Gilmour brought a strong melodic sense, Wright brought interesting chord sequences and Waters brought concepts and lyrics. It's clear that, as Wright's compositional input and Gilmour was left as the only counterpoint to Waters' preoccupation with concepts and lyrics at the expense of "richer" music, the band lost much of their musical greatness. And by the time of "The Final Cut", this became very problematic. Waters uses the same limited kind of chord sequences and there is a sameness to the material that makes you sorely miss Wright's sense of harmonic diversity and uncommon chord sequences. Now, if you actively dislike Waters' personal obsessions, I understand why you're getting off the boat at this point. I like the emotional intensity of the album and what (little) is left of the Floyd greatness (Gilmour's guitar solos, the cinematic production), and the all-analog soundstage (piano, Hammond, orchestra). Post-Waters Floyd obviously restored some of the musical balance, although neither Gilmour nor Wright had much to say that was new or vital at this point (and Wright only became involved in the writing again on "The Division Bell"), and from a lyrics standpoint the whole thing felt like a parody, and certainly had none of the depth or genuineness of Waters' best work. Sure, with 3/4ths of the classic line-up it was a better concert proposition than Waters and a bunch of talented impersonators. But, with a few exceptions, the new material was (imho) very shallow compared with the 1970s stuff.
    I wish I'd come up with this view, because that resonates what I think. Difficult to take AMLOR and TDB seriously back then, despite the brilliant High Hopes and the OK Marooned.
    To me, artistically speaking, it seemed like Waters kept undetterrably leaping forward (including Ca Ira) at least in terms of depth of message in his lyics and surviving +/- unscathed despite relatively low sales; while the other three were content just living on the past laurels and former glories, just cashing in with minimal effort in their new adventures.

    Yup, I don't think The Beatles would've been the same without either John or Paul. (Wright being a bit the George)
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  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Neither do I. I think there was a Beatles-like thing about PF in the way the members complemented each other. Gilmour brought a strong melodic sense, Wright brought interesting chord sequences and Waters brought concepts and lyrics. It's clear that, as Wright's compositional input and Gilmour was left as the only counterpoint to Waters' preoccupation with concepts and lyrics at the expense of "richer" music, the band lost much of their musical greatness. And by the time of "The Final Cut", this became very problematic. Waters uses the same limited kind of chord sequences and there is a sameness to the material that makes you sorely miss Wright's sense of harmonic diversity and uncommon chord sequences. Now, if you actively dislike Waters' personal obsessions, I understand why you're getting off the boat at this point. I like the emotional intensity of the album and what (little) is left of the Floyd greatness (Gilmour's guitar solos, the cinematic production), and the all-analog soundstage (piano, Hammond, orchestra). Post-Waters Floyd obviously restored some of the musical balance, although neither Gilmour nor Wright had much to say that was new or vital at this point (and Wright only became involved in the writing again on "The Division Bell"), and from a lyrics standpoint the whole thing felt like a parody, and certainly had none of the depth or genuineness of Waters' best work. Sure, with 3/4ths of the classic line-up it was a better concert proposition than Waters and a bunch of talented impersonators. But, with a few exceptions, the new material was (imho) very shallow compared with the 1970s stuff.
    I agree 100 % with this view.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Neither do I. I think there was a Beatles-like thing about PF in the way the members complemented each other. Gilmour brought a strong melodic sense, Wright brought interesting chord sequences and Waters brought concepts and lyrics. It's clear that, as Wright's compositional input and Gilmour was left as the only counterpoint to Waters' preoccupation with concepts and lyrics at the expense of "richer" music, the band lost much of their musical greatness. And by the time of "The Final Cut", this became very problematic. Waters uses the same limited kind of chord sequences and there is a sameness to the material that makes you sorely miss Wright's sense of harmonic diversity and uncommon chord sequences. Now, if you actively dislike Waters' personal obsessions, I understand why you're getting off the boat at this point. I like the emotional intensity of the album and what (little) is left of the Floyd greatness (Gilmour's guitar solos, the cinematic production), and the all-analog soundstage (piano, Hammond, orchestra). Post-Waters Floyd obviously restored some of the musical balance, although neither Gilmour nor Wright had much to say that was new or vital at this point (and Wright only became involved in the writing again on "The Division Bell"), and from a lyrics standpoint the whole thing felt like a parody, and certainly had none of the depth or genuineness of Waters' best work. Sure, with 3/4ths of the classic line-up it was a better concert proposition than Waters and a bunch of talented impersonators. But, with a few exceptions, the new material was (imho) very shallow compared with the 1970s stuff.
    I don't have a problem with Waters and his more "focused" lyrical approach since 1980. Sometimes it ends up cringeworthy as hell, other times there's still a wonderful poetic quality in his words. That quality is also at least partly contingent on whom he entrusts the actual musical side of things. Pat Leonard brought out some of his best qualities and helped elevate some otherwise-mixed lyrics to something really beautiful (IMHO) on Amused to Death. Nigel Godrich took a different approach with the last album; I like it in places but it suffers musically from being both thin in terms of musical ideas and musical complexity.

    Flip it around...I don't have a problem with Gilmour's lack of poetic depth when it comes to lyrics. He's had lovely moments as well, along with some (IMHO) cringeworthy moments. There's also ample musical bliss going on to make things more than entertaining. And with Wright added into the mix, I'm quite happy with the outcome. Again, it's what makes this new set rather lovely for me -- I did not expect Momentary Lapse to transform so much (IMHO) simply by bringing out Wright's contributions and Mason's drums more. But it did. On the Turning Away now almost feels like it could have sat somewhere on Final Cut, in fact.

    I also love Broken China and wish there had been more from Wright, and of course watching Mason's Saucerful last year was pure delight in a tie-dyed mug.

    So none of them have necessarily topped the greats of the 70's. I'm sure there's also a few folks (I know at least one for certain) who will say they f**ked it all up the moment they fired Syd and have never recovered from THAT true greatness. That's cool too. But for me personally, there's lots I still love from all the various "camps" since they went their separate ways.
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  9. #309
    Oooo...back to the box set. Minor fun thing I just found. The screen film version of "Signs of Life" from 1987 is the full live version, not the shortened version from all other versions (CD, Blu Ray, etc.).
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  10. #310
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    My local record store (Head in Leamington Spa) has this box reduced from 312 pounds to 272 pounds now.

    I'm hoping they release the audio material separately.

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I did not expect Momentary Lapse to transform so much (IMHO) simply by bringing out Wright's contributions and Mason's drums more. But it did. On the Turning Away now almost feels like it could have sat somewhere on Final Cut, in fact.
    That's interesting. If there is a separate release of the remix I'll probably try it. When the album was first released in 1987, I had mixed feelings about how the album sounded. On one hand, it sounded like no other PF album, which was a not a bad thing since there aren't two similar PF albums. So the 80s sound wasn't so shocking to me. What annoyed me was the fact that it sounded very much like a Gilmour solo album, with no recognizable contribution from Mason and Wright. It really felt like a DG solo album in disguise, whereas TFC, while sounding very much like a Waters solo album, had at least recognizable contributions from Gilmour, not only Waters. Although I'm not convinced that the new version will sound good to my ears, it may be an interesting experiment in rewriting history and re-floydizing an album that Mason and Wright have obviously endorsed.

    And, by the way, Pink Floyd really ended in 1966 when Bob Klose left.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harbottle View Post
    My local record store (Head in Leamington Spa) has this box reduced from 312 pounds to 272 pounds now.

    I'm hoping they release the audio material separately.
    Yes it's about the same on Amazon now. Not flying off the shelves, I suspect.

  13. #313
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Looks like all the mixes are up on YT now. Here's a few you might not have heard yet.







    Thoughts?

    Check out the vid under it of the cover shot for AMLOR being set up. All those beds on the beach... Now days they would just use CGI, I suspect...
    Last edited by Sean; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:43 PM.

  14. #314
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Does this box also come with the original AMLOR mix too?

  15. #315
    Nope, just the new.

    I very much love the new version of Yet Another Movie (very different but very, very cool, especially hearing more of Mr. Levin). Dogs of War finally works for me, Scott Page's overblown sax aside. I'm not a fan of the new mix of Terminal Frost as much to be honest; it lost a bit TOO much in the new mix and now sounds more like a live cut of the song.
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  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Interstellar View Post
    That's interesting. If there is a separate release of the remix I'll probably try it. When the album was first released in 1987, I had mixed feelings about how the album sounded. On one hand, it sounded like no other PF album, which was a not a bad thing since there aren't two similar PF albums. So the 80s sound wasn't so shocking to me. What annoyed me was the fact that it sounded very much like a Gilmour solo album, with no recognizable contribution from Mason and Wright. It really felt like a DG solo album in disguise, whereas TFC, while sounding very much like a Waters solo album, had at least recognizable contributions from Gilmour, not only Waters. Although I'm not convinced that the new version will sound good to my ears, it may be an interesting experiment in rewriting history and re-floydizing an album that Mason and Wright have obviously endorsed.

    And, by the way, Pink Floyd really ended in 1966 when Bob Klose left.
    NO KLOSE NO INTERSTELLAR

    IMHO...whereas Final Cut was essentially a Waters album but with PF as a backing band, the new Momentary Lapse is still essentially a Gilmour album but with PF as a backing band. Hearing more of Wright's organ and electric piano, plus the warmer feel of Mason's drums definitely added back a feel that I'd not really noticed was missing before. It's cool.
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  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I'm not a fan of the new mix of Terminal Frost as much to be honest; it lost a bit TOO much in the new mix and now sounds more like a live cut of the song.
    Too New-Agey. Much like The Endless River. IMHO.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post

    I very much love the new version of Yet Another Movie (very different but very, very cool, especially hearing more of Mr. Levin). Dogs of War finally works for me, Scott Page's overblown sax aside. I'm not a fan of the new mix of Terminal Frost as much to be honest; it lost a bit TOO much in the new mix and now sounds more like a live cut of the song.
    I'm afraid that I got my hopes up too high. After hearing most all of the new remixes I like some of the songs I like better now and others where better left alone. Especially Terminal Frost. The new keys in general sound very good, but some of the drums take a little of life out of the originals. That's what I liked when AMLOR was released. It was a breathe of fresh air. It was a little louder and not just on Gilmour's solos, and not as lyrically dominated. I'm a big fan of Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut and even The Pros and Cons of Hitch Hiking, but AMLOR was a change in direction. Many will argue that it was the wrong direction, but I liked it a lot. It also fit with the time.

    If they split it up the Later Years, I will definitely buy pieces of it, but it really didn't change how I felt about AMLOR. Kind of like when Alan Parsons Project did the same with Tales of Mystery and Imagination. I liked the new additional guitars, some of the new keys and the added spoken words but the remixed drums were hit and miss for me.

  19. #319
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    The extended "Delicate Sound of Thunder" is fantastic. So great to have the whole show!
    Chad

  20. #320
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Verdict on the three songs new remix (YT and computer used)
    Previous to this, the count was two bettering and one draw, no worsen.

    Terminal Frost (which could've been half-shorter as the last three minutes noodle and almost overstay their welcome. On the remix, it's definitely muffled, but the original is sometimes cringy/painful (at same sound level). That one is a draw, really.

    Dogs of War : one of the worst offender on the original album (musical-wise it sounds like a Wall reject), whether in songwriting or in production/sonis dept. Can't help thinking what Waters would've done in terms of lyrics, keeping the same theme. Well the most of the aggressivity is gone, but if feels strange. I could get used to to the slightly muffled remix without much problems; Not sure whether I could call it a won or a draw, but it's certainly not a loss, for sure.


    Yet Another Movie: certainly have not heard a sonic difference in the boring introduction (ending at 1:10), the remix's guitar solo is less agreesive, but there is also more depth (IMHO) in the new version. The original version sounds shallow next to it. A clear win for this one.

    Soooo, after six tracks, the standing are 3W - 0L - 3D .... or 4-0-2 depending how I feel about DoW.


    Just found the remix of Signs of Life

    the guitar is a litlle less sharp on the remix, but let's call it basically even, so another draw
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  21. #321
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    A buddy of mine picked up the box set (he hadn't owned a CD copy of anything post Wall, I have remastered versions of both AMLOR and TDB).*

    Been switching back and forth twixt the two versions of AMLOR. It's a real mixed bag - the remix highlights certain instrumentation and adds some nuance and detail here and there but in some places sounds a bit over-processed, inorganic. Boy, does this remix got a lot of bass. Now, I love me some bass but not at the expense of detail. And I'm not listening on a rig with a subwoofer. Yes, you can discern the actual drums in the remix from the canned drums on the original, but it's more subtle than you'd think. There isn't as much space between the instruments as I would have hoped for. On some tracks (Terminal Frost for example) I prefer the original mix because they actually benefit from the reverb. The opening guitar lead on Sorrow sounds overly compressed.

    I'm not certain I'm hearing enough to move the meter. The remix sounds different but I can't say it's an improvement. It probably would have taken a master like Steven The Redeemer to make that much of an Improvement anyway. The fact is, this album was one of the better sounding releases of the '80s even if you don't think it's a real Floyd album.

    The Delicate Sound of Thunder however is great. It didn't really need to be remastered either, but its awesome that the full concert playlist is finally represented here. I used to have this on VHS years ago and made a cassette tape from it. Years later I picked up the CD but was so disappointed with the omissions. I hope this gets an individual release at some point.
    Digital playback brought high fidelity to the masses and audiophiles will never forgive it for that

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