The Flower Kings "Waiting For Miracles" - new double album - 8 November 2019

[LeFrog]

As a native English speaker, I could not care less about English mistakes made by someone for whom it’s a secondary language. I’m curious: How does he “mostly” lift metaphors and catchphrases from others? Any examples?

Sounds like hyperbole to me. It’s fine if you don’t like him.

English is not my native language, yet Stolt's mistakes bother me because there are so many of them. He could have someone proof read his lyrics. I remember the liner notes from the early Riverside albums mention someone who corrected the lyrics and theirs have always been absolutely perfect as far as the language is concerned. There's no shame in doing that.

As for the lifted metaphors and catchphrases, "mostly" was probably hyperbole on my part, yet I hear familiar phrases pop up regularly in his lyrics, and it bothers me more than with other lyricists. I'll try to come up with examples but I don't have any in mind at the moment. I find his lyrics very cliché, contrary to what others have mentioned.

My point was, I wouldn't mention Stolt as a good lyricist, but it's a question of taste of course, and many seem to disagree which is fine by me.

[Smörgåsbord]

His lyrics are cringeworthy, but hey, what would you expect when Anderson is the source of inspiration? Imagery drawn from liberal Christianity instead of Anderson's Hinduism.

[calyx]

As for the lifted metaphors and catchphrases, "mostly" was probably hyperbole on my part, yet I hear familiar phrases pop up regularly in his lyrics, and it bothers me more than with other lyricists. I'll try to come up with examples but I don't have any in mind at the moment. I find his lyrics very cliché, contrary to what others have mentioned.

I agree with the above - actually there were so many of those in his lyrics at one point, I asked him in an interview (probably around the time of "Flower Power") if it was intentional. Apparently it wasn't - certainly not a knowing "nod" to the sources.

[calyx]

A few examples :

Go West Judas

Like brothers in arms, now worlds apart (Dire Straits/Saga references ?)
You think you're safe in that pleasure dome (Frankie Goes To Hollywood reference ?)

Big Puzzle

Rope ladder to the moon, the night have a thousand eyes (Colosseum/Jack Bruce reference + old 1962 Bobby Vee song)

There Is More…

One day he'll spread his wings, go where the eagle flies (Queen/Traffic references)

The Road Back Home

Sleep the meadows green, high the memory (Yes TfTO reference)

Just This Once

The harder they come, the harder they fall (Jimmy Cliff reference ?)
Everyone wants to rule the world (Tears For Fears reference)

Stardust We Are

this roundabout, we love so much (Yes reference)
The cry of love, the spark of life, dance through the fire (Hendrix reference)
We burnt the rope, layed down the gun (possible Emerson Lake & Powell reference)

[Plasmatopia]

I say this with massive respect for Roine's work and talents, but .... having the lyrics proofread would not necessarily eliminate the cliche or overused phrases. Not sure how you get him to change that. As someone who normally doesn't put much emphasis on lyrics at all, after a while certain lines start to stick out and then at some point I can't not pay attention to them. If what he's after is the creation of modern "classics" it seems weird to have either an attitude of "oh well, it's just the lyrics" or perhaps a sort of pride that won't allow a few verbal bumps to be smoothed out by a native English speaker. Such a review of lyrics worked well for Jonas Reingold.

Edit: I also wanted to add that there are several tunes in the TFK catalog that I really like, from a musical perspective. But then there will be that one lyric or pronunciation that makes me wince more and more with each listen and which seems to stick out like a sore thumb (sorry for using a cliche, lol). What would otherwise be a great song that I'd potentially use to recommend the band I then worry would turn off a potential fan.

[calyx]

I am often amazed/appalled at how non-Ebglish speakers write English lyrics well above their ability and don’t bother asking for advice. Difficult to claim they don’t Know anyone who could help with that !

[chalkpie]

Is appalling really the word to describe his lyrics because he's a Swede writing in English? I can think of some other things in life described as appalling, but Flower Kings lyrics? Wow.

Yes, he could find an English proofreader no doubt....does it really make that big of an impact on the listening experience here? I don't see it personally.

[Plasmatopia]

Yes, he could find an English proofreader no doubt....does it really make that big of an impact on the listening experience here? I don't see it personally.

"Here" may be one thing. Most of us know the band is from Sweden. For someone else who may not be as familiar they might be less inclined to give the band a chance. It might already be a tough sell for some (not me) given some of the more twee aspects that show up here and there.

[LeFrog]

There are many other Swedish prog bands that don't have nearly as many English mistakes, so not being a native English speaker is hardly an excuse.
Anyway, thanks for backing me up on this and the cliché lyrics, I was starting to think it was just me.

[calyx]

My use of «*appalled*» was NOT in reference to the lyrics themselves, and not even about Roine/FK specifically, just about the attitude of not giving a toss whether one’s lyrics are in good English.

[Interstellar]

Some of Roine's lyrics do indeed sound a bit clumsy (like my own English writing), but it has somehow become part of the Flower Kings charm to my ears.
The main question for me these days is : after giving up on new FK material since The Sum Of No Evil, will I feel a motivation to grab the new one ?
They are in the "I wish these guys the best, they're great at what they do, but I don't need to hear more of their music" category (like Neal Morse, Spock's Beard and a few others), but the new songs sound fine and I still have a soft spot for their music, partly because of a special candidness that emanates from it.

[Top Cat]

just about the attitude of not giving a toss whether one’s lyrics are in good English.

there ya have it...we should require by international law, unless music is written in perfect English, the recording is required to be written in their native language.
This would also include Rap.

[SRS]

My review is up, for anyone interested!

https://www.velvetthunder.co.uk/the-...ide-out-music/

Thanks! Good review! Are you able to post the song writing credits? Is everything credited to Stolt or do Kamins and Reingold have some songs?

[calyx]

Unlike the new Hasse Froberg CD the press kit came with no songwriters credits whatsoever, so I’m afraid no-one knows who wrote what at this point.

[JKL2000]

“With a heart bigger than America...”

21st Century Problem though. “This Swedish Prog musician’s lyrics aren’t good enough.”

[Splicer]

Personally, I'm rather impressed how well Swedes can speak English compared with the provincial vice versa. That said, yes, FK lyrics have oddities where it's clear the Swedish translates with a clunky turn of phrase. For example, "Love Is The Only Answer" has the lyric:

In the end you can invest in love but never ask for payback

I understand what it's supposed to mean but "payback" has a negative connotation.

[LeFrog]

“With a heart bigger than America...”

21st Century Problem though. “This Swedish Prog musician’s lyrics aren’t good enough.”

"No more kiss will seal the lie" is actually one of the worst offenders.

[Plasmatopia]

The examples given here point out that some of this really comes down to personal preference. What offends one ear could be written off as creative or lovably quirky by another.

[calyx]

The examples given here point out that some of this really comes down to personal preference. What offends one ear could be written off as creative or lovably quirky by another.

If combining singular and plural within the same sentence fits your definition of "lovably quirky", then I get what you're saying.

Indeed it's ultimately a matter of personal preference. It's strange (to me) that those most bothered by these approximations in this thread are both French, and the native English speakers mostly don't seem to mind. It would also be a problem for me if this was about non-French writing in poor French - which is almost systematically the case when it happens, incidentally. Although I prefer English-sung music as a rule, it's really rather people sang in their own language rather than opt for English.

[Poisoned Youth]

If combining singular and plural within the same sentence fits your definition of "lovably quirky", then I get what you're saying.

Indeed it's ultimately a matter of personal preference. It's strange (to me) that those most bothered by these approximations in this thread are both French, and the native English speakers mostly don't seem to mind. It would also be a problem for me if this was about non-French writing in poor French - which is almost systematically the case when it happens, incidentally. Although I prefer English-sung music as a rule, it's really rather people sang in their own language rather than opt for English.

I, for one, appreciate your critical opinion on this. For me, I never took the lyrics all that seriously and have always been concerned more with the composition and musical structure (Which has been hit and miss in recent years).

I tried making sense of this back in the day. Maybe it’s my personal shortcoming, but I stopped trying and just enjoyed the music.

Now see how we fly so heavenly high
Swimming the ocean and spin' the stars
And so the great net will fall apart
So don't forget the human touch,

The word of mouth, this roundabout, we love so much
Now see how our thoughts are running free
Run for leader and semi God
And once again we pay in blood
So don't forget the human trial,
The cry of love, the spark of life, dance thru the fire

Stardust we are
Close to divine
Stardust we are
See how we shine

Sailed the sea, the moon and the stars
Build this window beneath the pool
Lend a hand to a drowning fool
See them saviours come so cheap

We loose our touch, and down we go, into the deep
Drivin' down the memory lane
Dusty dreams from a fading sun
Remember how the horses run
We played the stars, we walked the moon,
We burnt the rope, layed down the gun

Stardust we are
Close to divine
Stardust we are
See how we shine

[bigjohnwayne]

Personally, I'm rather impressed how well Swedes can speak English compared with the provincial vice versa. That said, yes, FK lyrics have oddities where it's clear the Swedish translates with a clunky turn of phrase. For example, "Love Is The Only Answer" has the lyric:



I understand what it's supposed to mean but "payback" has a negative connotation.

Wise observation. Their lyrics are more than passable in a second language. Plenty of English-first-language prog exceed their clunker per minute mark.

That being said, my favorite is the ballad from the Rainmaker where the woman is smiling like a horse.

[moecurlythanu]

That being said, my favorite is the ballad from the Rainmaker where the woman is smiling like a horse.

"Why the long face, ma'am?"

[aith01]

Is appalling really the word to describe his lyrics because he's a Swede writing in English? I can think of some other things in life described as appalling, but Flower Kings lyrics? Wow.

Yes, he could find an English proofreader no doubt....does it really make that big of an impact on the listening experience here? I don't see it personally.

I’m in agreement here. “Appalling” is not a word I would ever use to describe TFK’s lyrics. They don’t always work for me, but it has never impacted my enjoyment of the music. And since English is my first language, I think my opinion carries some weight at least, however slight.

[aith01]

It's strange (to me) that those most bothered by these approximations in this thread are both French, and the native English speakers mostly don't seem to mind.

Funny, because it’s not strange to me at all that this is the case.

Roine’s lyrics may not always be grammatically correct English, but they get the point across — which is the important part, IMO.

In my line of work, I communicate with people around the world who don’t always have perfect command of English. I’ve learned to appreciate that communication doesn’t always have to be technically correct enough to pass muster with a college English professor. I also appreciate the effort it takes for a non-English person to express thoughts and emotions in a language that doesn't spring from their heart.

[zumacraig]

Some of Roine's lyrics do indeed sound a bit clumsy (like my own English writing), but it has somehow become part of the Flower Kings charm to my ears.
The main question for me these days is : after giving up on new FK material since The Sum Of No Evil, will I feel a motivation to grab the new one ?
They are in the "I wish these guys the best, they're great at what they do, but I don't need to hear more of their music" category (like Neal Morse, Spock's Beard and a few others), but the new songs sound fine and I still have a soft spot for their music, partly because of a special candidness that emanates from it.

You should check out Banks of Eden. It's probably my third favorite of theirs. There is no filler, imho, and it is two discs that are about 40 minutes each. Very easy listen. Rather than elaborate on every idea he as, Stolt seems to take the best stuff he's come up with and use that. I'd be interested to see what Roine would come up with if he worked with an outside producer like Nigel Goodrich or something. Less is more as far as I'm concerned and I just think it's impossible to create a perfect double album. I see the template for a classic as CTTE; an epic and two mini-epics. I wonder how Stolt would do with those restraints. I could take any one of their albums and maybe pull together a classic like that. Sorry...rambling now.