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Thread: Altrock, the label

  1. #26
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    I worked on 34 of these albums
    Those were nice days
    I totally get your drift....
    Steve F.

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    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I really like this lesser talked about release, Chance:Risiko -Sleep Talking. Any fans?

    I wonder if this was released by Radiohead, wouldn't it be hailed now as one of the greatest rock albums of all time?

    I don't even wonder to tell the truth. The sheep always follow whatever the shepherd commands.

  3. #28
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Probably true, though Radiohead are still excellent. Baaa.
    Ian

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  4. #29
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Probably true, though Radiohead are still excellent. Baaa.
    You misspelled "Bah!"

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  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I really like this lesser talked about release, Chance:Risiko -Sleep Talking. Any fans?

    I think I might have about 30 AltrOcks, and this is in my top-5 from the label.

    With the demise of AltrOck and the semi-bygone of Cuneiform, there are hardly any interesting labels left who concentrate on "seriously" progressive developments in rock music. Former regimes like ReR, Tzadik and Rune Grammofon are still going, but no longer dedicate themselves much to rock. Skin Graft are there, of course, but their releases are infrequent. Are Kavus and Believer's Roast in action? Perhaps I haven't been paying adequate attention these past couple of years.

    It's sad, all this. AltrOck were one of the great labels.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I think I might have about 30 AltrOcks, and this is in my top-5 from the label.
    With the demise of AltrOck and the semi-bygone of Cuneiform, there are hardly any interesting labels left who concentrate on "seriously" progressive developments in rock music. Former regimes like ReR, Tzadik and Rune Grammofon are still going, but no longer dedicate themselves much to rock. Skin Graft are there, of course, but their releases are infrequent. Are Kavus and Believer's Roast in action? Perhaps I haven't been paying adequate attention these past couple of years.
    It's sad, all this. AltrOck were one of the great labels.
    lets be honest this entire scene of avant progressive is actually extinct

  7. #32
    ^ I believe you're partly right, Udi. What's left of "avant-prog" is basically unrelated to traditional understandings of it, in that most current such artists tend to have their origins in metal/punk/indie-sorts of styles. There have been great things these past years too, but certainly not in abundance. And the interest with "prog" audiences seems to be next-to-null. Even with a release as completely elaborate as All Traps on Earth - which essentially brings together traits of "traditional" progressive and through-composed avant-progressive - overall enthusiasm appeared all but absent.

    A dying breed, just like rock in general.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  8. #33
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Even with a release as completely elaborate as All Traps on Earth - which essentially brings together traits of "traditional" progressive and through-composed avant-progressive - overall enthusiasm appeared all but absent.
    I dunno Richard. We and other vendors sold a lot of copies of All Traps On Earth; I didn't pay much attention to the discussion (or not) here, but it was hardly received 'absent enthusiasm'....
    Steve F.

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  9. #34
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    They certainly went gaga over it on PA, currently ranked 24th all time over there.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I dunno Richard. We and other vendors sold a lot of copies of All Traps On Earth
    Which is a great thing anyhow, yet I was baffled that Sweden's longtime largest vendor for "prog-rock" music, Record Heaven, only offered it as 'special import' - the project stemming from that very same country. Perhaps I was just basing my conclusions on an overall impression, still I was surprised at how little fuzz there was about the release and how few folks seemed to know it.

    Of course it could be me and my steady decline as "prog" militant activist.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  11. #36
    I know that nobody will answer, but I am very curious of what "lots of copies" mean in our days.

  12. #37
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    I know that nobody will answer, but I am very curious of what "lots of copies" mean in our days.
    'Not nearly as many as it used to mean', is as specific as I think is appropriate.
    Steve F.

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  13. #38
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I was baffled that Sweden's longtime largest vendor for "prog-rock" music, Record Heaven, only offered it as 'special import'(
    Well, it was released only in Italy...
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  14. #39
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    Somehow I do not see Roqueforte as an Altrock release.
    But a rational diet must include both roqueforte and camembert.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ I believe you're partly right, Udi.

    There have been great things these past years too, but certainly not in abundance.

    Even with a release as completely elaborate as All Traps on Earth - which essentially brings together traits of "traditional" progressive and through-composed avant-progressive - overall enthusiasm appeared all but absent.

    A dying breed, just like rock in general.
    Care to share some of these “great things” ?

    I am bot gonna share my opinion on ATOE
    In any case I think its “popularity” has more to do with Anglagard’s shadow . Had this been released by a new band without does ties would it sell ?

    there might be hope for a resurrection of rock in the future
    But certainly what killed Avant Progressive has to do with the “fans” unwilling to pay for recorded music.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    But certainly what killed Avant Progressive has to do with the “fans” unwilling to pay for recorded music.
    Concur.

    Great things; AltrOck stuff like Loomings, PoiL a.o., a handful of fresh British bands such as Trojan Horse, Thumpermonkey, Lost Crowns and more. Some nice stuff from France, a snippet of fine releases here from Norway (Red Kite, Krokofant), a couple of solid solo albums by Toby Driver (alas he's not "new").

    But no, not in abundance.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    I know that nobody will answer, but I am very curious of what "lots of copies" mean in our days.
    500 - 1000 all physical formats included? For a "commercial" release of the genre. That's what I have in mind...
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  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    I am bot gonna share my opinion on ATOE
    In any case I think its “popularity” has more to do with Anglagard’s shadow . Had this been released by a new band without does ties would it sell ?
    This.
    Macht das ohr auf!

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  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    500 - 1000 all physical formats included? For a "commercial" release of the genre. That's what I have in mind...
    What about digital copies? These must amount to more than the physical combined nowadays, no?

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    This.
    Yep. If this had been a new band of some sort releasing their debut on AltrOck or whatever, its appeal would have been limited to the usual circle of "avant" weirdheads.

    But I'd say that if a purported "prog" artist of any denomination succeeds in turning anywhere between 500-1000 units of a release in this day and age, their luck is fairly decent - but rare. Particularly if we're talking an independent release.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    if a purported "prog" artist of any denomination succeeds in turning anywhere between 500-1000 units of a release in this day and age, their luck is fairly decent - but rare. Particularly if we're talking an independent release.
    Only if they are touring or playing on a regular basis
    otherwise they will see little to ne money

  22. #47
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udi Koomran View Post
    Care to share some of these “great things” ?

    I am bot gonna share my opinion on ATOE
    In any case I think its “popularity” has more to do with Anglagard’s shadow . Had this been released by a new band without ties would it sell ?

    there might be hope for a resurrection of rock in the future
    But certainly what killed Avant Progressive has to do with the “fans” unwilling to pay for recorded music.
    Yes, I do believe that Anglagard's shadow over the album did help moving many physical copies (the fact that the Cd came in a mini-Lp sleeve probably helped somewhat) - not to mention downloads, which probably doubled whatever CD+Vinyl sales.

    I don't know about this, though. I'd say that the Avant-RIO crowd is one of the more honest one, in paying for physical albums - though Bandcamp sales probably hurt the sales figures of the historical avant-prog vendors, since the bandcamp sales are not passing through them anymore.

    Personally, I buy much less Avant-prog albums than previously, cos I've grown tired or blasé a few years ago, because all too-often it sounded samey (the seemingly hundreds of album toying with Klezmer-Manouche music) or noisy (math-rock), and I've turned towards jthe "spiritual-jazz" (stupid label), though this thread has shown (revelated) me that I still buy a fair bit (more than I thought, anyways) of avant-prog labels (AR, MJ, Cunei, etc...) products. But my little person only accounts for one sale, and should there be another Présent, Aranis or UZ (to name the three geographically closer bands) album coming out, it certainly won't be an auto-buy anymore (though I will order Guy Seghers' new project).



    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Yep. If this had been a new band of some sort releasing their debut on AltrOck or whatever, its appeal would have been limited to the usual circle of "avant" weirdheads.

    But I'd say that if a purported "prog" artist of any denomination succeeds in turning anywhere between 500-1000 units of a release in this day and age, their luck is fairly decent - but rare. Particularly if we're talking an independent release.
    Yup, ATOE's release on AltRock or MoonJune (or even Cuneiform) could've hurt its sales, cos it could repell the more mainstream prog fans.

    500/1000 sales worldwide seems low for certain denominations of "prog": How many copies does Marillion move of their latest albums (physical or dematerialised)? Or Steve Hackett or S Wilson? Surely, it's probably closer to 10000 than 1000.
    We won't even go in progmetal territory, but my guess is that the next Tool album (coming soon) will sell in 5 figures worldwide
    Last edited by Trane; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:35 AM.
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  23. #48
    ^ Steve Nilson sells more than Hocket and Marill. I believe I saw figures of 50,000 for at least one of his solo records.

    Trond of Panzerpappa told me a few years back (i.e. pre-Pestrotte) that 300 sold copies would warrant a happy outcry but 500 would deem rejoice. I don't think they've reached that mark just yet, but I could be wrong. Still, they're one of the fairly well-known names doing this thing here in Norway (or even Scandinavia), which says a lot about proportions.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  24. #49
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    I don't know about this, though. I'd say that the Avant-RIO crowd is one of the more honest one, in paying for physical albums - though Bandcamp sales probably hurt the sales figures of the historical avant-prog vendors, since the bandcamp sales are not passing through them anymore.
    You can say it. You can even say it in bold. But it's not true.
    Steve F.

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    You can say it. You can even say it in bold. But it's not true.
    I really hope the assholes who wouldn't pay the price of a CD to support specialist labels and the bands that were signed to them are happy with themselves now. Fuckers.
    “your ognna pay pay with my wrath of ballbat”

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