Because, apparently, John Fogerty wanted it in the can.Originally Posted by JJ88
Because, apparently, John Fogerty wanted it in the can.
Steve F.
www.waysidemusic.com
www.cuneiformrecords.com
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“Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin
Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]
"Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"
please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.
Coming back a bit on the issue, it seems that Fogerty is one sore and sour man about that era.I think Fogerty knew shit all about the problems of the stage and the Dead's heavy rig: the whole stage was risking crumbling with the Dead's equipment) and sinking into the mud. Not to mention the electricity and humidity factors.
The Dead were held off stage to repair stage stuff by the organizers and technical staff, and finally let on stage around midnight. Now that the deaqd drop a few hits while waiting to go on is something different.
Furthermore, if there were a few acts that had nothing to do with the hippie zeitgeist, CCR, The Who, Sha Na Na and even Ten Years After (Alvin was reported - a bit surprisingly, maybe - to not liking the hippies and onkly plastered the peace sticker on his E355 to give change) were the main accused.
Personally I love CCR albums 1, 2, 5, and 6 (great swampy boogie stuff), but I dislike much of his country-rock side on album 3 & 4.
In some ways, I fully understand him having a huge chip on his shoulder about him not owning his often great music, courtesy of his arsehole label, but that eventually lead him to fall off with the other three members (his own brother in first). And he's still sore about all of that 50 years down the line, despite other CCR attempting reconciliation (which never lasted)
But shooting at the Dead horse (pun intended) is simply wrong for a few reasons, the first is the GD was really a victim at Woodstock... They played oneof their worst concert ever (they don't even appear in the movie, except for Garcia smoking doobies), and according to the band, it took almost a full decade for the band to get over Woodstock.
As for CCR, they were neither winners or losers... Sure, they were not winners like Santana or TYA in gaining world attention, but a few bands had it much sourer than CCR, namely Jefferson Airplane, playing at 8AM. But since CCR didn't care for dope-smoking hippies (they actually disliked them), they really can't complain being invited at the hippie festival of the XXth century.
Yes, the story goes that almost everyone was asleep and Fogerty was despairing, but one guy in the crowd yelled out that they were all with the band, and that gave him the kick he needed and they played a great set, just for that dude.
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I just came back from a screening in a cinema about the movie (it had been 40 years since I'd seen it, and that was also on a big screen) and just saw two days ago for the first time the other documentary.
Wow, it's sure different than I remembered it, but it's also quite fucked up as the chronological order is not respected at all (order of appearance), and something is rather strange, namely for TYA's set, which was normaly still during daylight and on a drenched stage (I definitely remember Alvin involuntarily jumping in puddles, splashing around - electricution was not far away) But in the movie I just saw, it's definitely night time on a dry stage. Has there been a lot of tampering with the film footage and have they borrowed from other shows to complete the film?
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
I'm not sure what the deal there was. I know when CCR were inducted into the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame, Doug and Stu showed up, thinking the three of them would actually play together (Tom Fogerty had passed away by this time). But John said something, "No, I'm not playing with those guys", and did a couple songs with the house band or whatever.
Back in the late 90's, when Doug and Stu first started doing Creedence Clearwater Revisited, I saw them interviewed on Much Music, I think it was. They were asked if there was any chance of a reunion with John, and they basically shut down that thought pretty quick. I think the exact response was "Unfortunately, no".
According to Wikipedia, John's lately said he's "open to doing a reunion of some kind" or whatever, but Doug and Stu have no interest, they feel it's way too late for that. I think they might still be sore about John suing them when they first went out with the CCRevisited thing.
Another thing I remember hearing was when Tom was pretty much on his death bed, John went to see him, apparently for the first time in years (perhaps since Tom left the band originally). Anyway, apparently, at some point in the conversation, Tom says "Saul Zaentz is a real good friend of mine". For those who don't know, Zaentz is the prick at Fantasy Records that John holds responsible for stealing his publishing rights. Zaentz, you may recall sued John for plagiarizing his own song (though I think Saul might have been just pissed because that same album also had a song about him, originally titled Zantz Kant Danz, but was later changed to Vanz Kant Danz when Saul threatened a libel suit).
So anyway, Tom says he and Saul are friends, and that was it for John. He got up and walked away. He admitted there was no reconciliation, which is an unfortunate. You let yourself get so pissed off about something that actually happened to a lot of musicians, not just you, pal, to the point that you'll let it screw up your relationship with your own brother. That's just pathetic.
But I have the impression those guys probably didn't like being aroudn John much anyway. I get the impression he was very dictatorial during the CCR era, in terms of the songwriting, arrangements, etc. Supposedly, he even dictated the point that each of them had to write a third of the songs on that last album. That wasn't Doug and Stu saying "We want to do our songs!", it was John saying "You guys are gonna help me out for a change", or something like that. So maybe, from the get go, they were thinking, "I don't ever want to be in a band with that guy ever again!"
,But shooting at the Dead horse (pun intended) is simply wrong for a few reasons, the first is the GD was really a victim at Woodstock... They played oneof their worst concert ever (they don't even appear in the movie, except for Garcia smoking doobies)
Actually, the band is also shown arriving by helicopter. I think it's Pigpen, specifically, that you see in one shot. Can't remember if the rest of the band is shown. Jerry is shown holding up a joint and saying, "Exhibit A", and then the shot abruptly cuts to something else. So both Jerry and Pigpen appear in the movie.
The common logic with the Dead is, they always succumbed to...whatever, on "special occasions" and played badly. I remember when Jerry and Weir were on Letterman back in '87 (I've got it on VHS around here someplace), and Dave asked them about playing Egypt. When Dave asks how it went, Jerry chuckles and says "Oh, we were awful!". He then says that they were bad on all those things, whether it was Monterey Pop, Woodstock, Watkins Glen, Egypt, what-have-ya.
I have the official Egypt release they finally put out, and I think I have one of the shows around here someplace on a bootleg, but as I recall, they were "just ok". Not terrible, but not mindblowing either. But then, that's not exactly my favorite Dead era
and according to the band, it took almost a full decade for the band to get over Woodstock.
Uh, the Ten Years After performance has always been that way. At least, it has been since the 80's when I first saw the movie. Funny thing about that: I never actually saw it in the theater, I saw it for the first time on PBS, I think, and this was back before "letterboxing" and "widescreen" TV presentations. So they showed this weird full screen version. During The Who's segment, where there's three screens, the left and right images are hanging off the screen. That freeze frame shot of Townshend at the beginning of Summertime Blues, you basically see one image of him, half on the left side of the screen, half on the right side.
Wow, it's sure different than I remembered it, but it's also quite fucked up as the chronological order is not respected at all (order of appearance), and something is rather strange, namely for TYA's set, which was normaly still during daylight and on a drenched stage (I definitely remember Alvin involuntarily jumping in puddles, splashing around - electricution was not far away) But in the movie I just saw, it's definitely night time on a dry stage. Has there been a lot of tampering with the film footage and have they borrowed from other shows to complete the film?
What was really weird was, ya know how when they're showing the split screen stuff, and say at one point, you're hearing the audio for what's going on the right side, then at some point, the audio will shift to the left side image, and so on? OK, well since this was full screen, what they did was they just showed whatever image that corresponded to the audio (with the other image being barely visible on the edge of the screen), and when the audio would shift, you'd see the seam between the images literally move across the screen, pushing the other image out of the way, so that now you see the other image. Really weird way of handling that matter, but like I said, at the time, widescreen TV basically was unheard of, virtually no one was showing letterbox versions of movies on TV. EVERYTHING was like that, you'd watch a movie and there'd be actors just barely visible on the edge of the screen talking, etc. Or you'd see different prints of a given movie, and sometimes the image would be framed differently for a given scene in each one. And sometimes you'd miss something that didn't fit on the screen (I remember Siskel & Ebert kvetching about a certain Spencer Tracy movie, I forget which one, but they show a scene wehre two actors are having a conversation, and Tracy is on the side reacting silent to the conversation, but when it was shown on TV back then, you didn't see his facial reactions, so you were missing part of the action).
Yeah, it appears to be +/- a similar case with Alvin lee & TYA... The guitarist seems to do everything: singer and only songwriter and soloist, so it's easy to understand where they do become a bit dictatorial and think: no Alvin/John, no band.
But in both cases, I'm not sure that the dictator let the others have their say,especially once the initial inertia is under way.
According to wikipedia, TYA played from 8h15 to 9h15 on sunday, and in mid-august, it's still quite daylight, as the sun should've set around the end of their set, though that depends how far-east or far west you are in your time zone, and the latitude as well), though it was certainly quite cloudy at Woodstock that it may have felt darker, but in the movie, it's totally dark.Uh, the Ten Years After performance has always been that way. At least, it has been since the 80's when I first saw the movie. Funny thing about that: I never actually saw it in the theater,
FTM, it's the spot most bands will fight for as it always seems magic at sunset time, both for the crowd and the musos on stage.
BTW, I don't remember last night seeing one single shot of Chick Churchill during Going Home (in a helicopter) you see Lyons and R Lee, but not him)
Too far away for me to remember my first screenings (pretty sure this was on two distinct occasions) in the late-70's and early-80's, or remember which movie house it was (maybe the one in Little Italy) in Toronto, but it was with my usual suspects buddies that I viewed TSRTS, Stop Making Sense, Pompeii, The Wall, Rocky Horror etc... There were a couple of places around town playing in that teenage-smoke-up movie niche market on friday and saturday nights (midnight seances)I saw it for the first time on PBS, I think, and this was back before "letterboxing" and "widescreen" TV presentations. So they showed this weird full screen version. During The Who's segment, where there's three screens, the left and right images are hanging off the screen. That freeze frame shot of Townshend at the beginning of Summertime Blues, you basically see one image of him, half on the left side of the screen, half on the right side.
And yeah, I don't really remember those split screens on stage way back then (in the crowds, maybe, but that's not what one would remember 40 years down the road)... So my guess is that they tinkered with the original footage during the decades...
BTW, in last night's version, the expression "Beautyful People" was often used in the movie, but it was a lot more applicable to the crowd (there didn't seem to be one average or ugly person in the attendance), much more than the ones on stage (even Grace Slick is not to her own advantage that day - her hairdo is partly responsible).
I seem to remember that a good part of the flick showed miuch more of the weather issues the festival went through, and vividly remember the scene with the guitarist (not 100M% sure it was Alvin, but at least 95%, coz TYA was one of my fetish bands around that time >> I was hunting down original pressings of all their albums, including their weaker ones) splashing frenetically around in puddles
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Some big names went on much later than CCR that same morning. Sly And The Family Stone, Janis Joplin, The Who...
A few big fans of CCR on the Hoffman forum have bought their set and have said in terms of performance quality, it's the best live recording they've ever heard from the band. The AllMusic review* said if this was a 'bad' night it beggars belief what a 'good' one would sound like. Just shows artists are not always the best judge of their own work, as circumstances can get in the way of their appreciation of the actual music. Which is their prerogative in itself, of course, but not necessarily great for the listener/fan!
* https://www.allmusic.com/album/live-...k-mw0003287845
Last edited by JJ88; 08-22-2019 at 05:27 AM.
I just bought CCR Live at Woodstock, released only a few weeks ago. There have been several full albums of complete band performances released within the past month. Another one I bought was Mountain.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
Two great choices.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
BTW, when MTV did the 20th anniversary of Woodstock (you know, back when they played music), I was able to get a copy of the footage that was provided to them. It was two hours of previously unseen footage, including CCR, Mountain, Janis, Paul Butterfield, BS&T and more. It helps to have connections.
"The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"
Yup, he talks about it in his book (which is an interesting read BTW). He was not pleased with their performance, although pretty much everyone I know who has heard it thinks it is great.
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