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Thread: Interesting quote from Greg Lake

  1. #26
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    Lake was such a great talent. I even liked Emerson, Lake & Powell. Just one album yet still quality ELP.

  2. #27
    In a Rolling Stone article, the interviewer said something like what's the difference between ELP and the Grateful Dead and Greg said something like: We can play any type of music.

  3. #28
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Portland View Post
    Lake was such a great talent. I even liked Emerson, Lake & Powell. Just one album yet still quality ELP.
    We just listened to it this weekend and I really like that album. I think Cozy Powell played great on it and gave the music a different overall feeling, which I liked. He could really hammer on those drums..great drummer, RIP.
    I can't remember why Carl didn't play on that one, do you? scheduling with Asia tour perhaps..
    oh, but I have to admit we skipped the 2 bonus tracks. I have to be in a really crazy mood to sit through Loco Motion. lol
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  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by cazz View Post
    In a Rolling Stone article, the interviewer said something like what's the difference between ELP and the Grateful Dead and Greg said something like: We can play any type of music.
    That is, at best, laughable!

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I can't remember why Carl didn't play on that one, do you? scheduling with Asia tour perhaps..
    That was around the time Asia was working on Astra. Carl said once that if Keith and Greg had simply waited a couple months, he'd have been available, since Asia ended up not touring for that album.

  6. #31
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    Is it ok to say I really didn't miss Carl Palmer on this tour?


  7. #32
    Didn't get to see the ELPowell tour, but I remember the album. In fact, I had it on again just a few months ago. If you can get past some of the synth patches Keith used on this one, it's not a bad record. It certainly beats some of the records that certain other veteran artists were doing around the same time.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Progdreamer View Post
    Is it ok to say I really didn't miss Carl Palmer on this tour?

    Thanks for posting.. I have the Sprocket Sessions but hadn't seen this footage..

  9. #34
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progdreamer View Post
    Is it ok to say I really didn't miss Carl Palmer on this tour?



    Have to agree. I was blown away by this show back then. I thought Cozy was a perfect fit & gave their sound a breath of fresh air. Wish they would have done more with this lineup.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    That is, at best, laughable!
    I'd say. As much as I still like some of ELP's stuff, they were hardly eclectic in the sense that the Dead sought to be (and were indeed sometimes successful at). The only overarching forms of music I can't seem to remember Dead trying their hand at were heavy metal and punk.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I'd say. As much as I still like some of ELP's stuff, they were hardly eclectic in the sense that the Dead sought to be (and were indeed sometimes successful at). The only overarching forms of music I can't seem to remember Dead trying their hand at were heavy metal and punk.
    They didn't do hip-hop either, thank the Goddess. I suppose one could argue their flirtation with disco in the late 70's constitutes "dance music" (and indeed, if you ever went to a Dead concert, there was a whole lot of dancing going on pretty much from the first downbeat to the last, so one could argue it was all "dance music").

    But yeah, you're basically right. The Dead were one of the most eclectic bands ever. From garage band stuff (listen to the first album) to psychedelia to free improv to country/folk forms, "dance music", etc, they covered a lot more territory than most bands. Sometimes, they'd jump from one to the other in almost maddening leaps. Well, maddening for me, me anyway. The other day I was listening to a version of The Other One, one of their sort of free improv vehicles. 20 something minutes of free improv, Jerry going nuts with the wah wah pedal, etc...suddenly seguing into El Paso, and then back into The Other One. C'mon, Bob, is that really the appropriate time to revert to bar band covers?!

  12. #37
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    This...



    I think the Grateful Dead could have gone more in this direction and utilized their talents more in the rhythm section rather than all the folky less ambitious stuff.

  13. #38
    ^ Huh? There's a virtual abundance of free excursion with the Dead - official live albums, bootlegs, even some of their studio output. And I actually find that some of their folky stuff was plenty ambitious for a band who basically started out as a r&b dance-combo for local teenagers.

    What I WOULD have wanted more of from the Dead, however, was the input of Tom Constanten.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Huh? There's a virtual abundance of free excursion with the Dead - official live albums, bootlegs, even some of their studio output. And I actually find that some of their folky stuff was plenty ambitious for a band who basically started out as a r&b dance-combo for local teenagers.
    Well, I sort of get the idea that a lot of people who are into psychedelic music have no real interest in the more sort of traditional music forms the band are more commonly associated with. For me, it's not the original material, so much as all the mediocre cover tunes. I can't think of any other band who could go onstage in front or 20,000 or more people and do a 60-90 minute set, where half the songs were covers, and get away with it.

    I can only imagine it must have been like going to see the Dead, circa 1972-1974, knowing what this band could, and having to sit through all the folk/country/rock n roll material, and especially those covers, waiting for them to get to "the good stuff".

    And I agree, I think it's somewhat impressive that they morphed from a "swinging teenage combo" (as Frank Zappa sometimes described such bands) to the psychedelic ensemble that made Anthem Of The Sun and Aoxomoxoa, to the sort of folk/country oriented band that gave us Workingman's Dead and American Beauty.

    I remember Robert Hunter saying that someone once asked him what the person who wrote Cumberland Blues would think if he knew that something called The Grateful Dead would someday record the song. The point being, I guess, that the song sounded so much like something from a past era that maybe some observers didn't realize it was a Hunter/Garcia original!

    Keep in mind, a couple years earlier, this was the same songwriting team (along with the other band members) who had created That's It For The Other One, New Potato Caboose, St Stephen and other songs that were never gonna be mistaken for something that had been written decades earlier by a coal miner living in Appalachia, or whatever.




    What I WOULD have wanted more of from the Dead, however, was the input of Tom Constanten.
    I think TC's main contribution to the band is We Leave The Castle, the multi-tracked prepared piano freak out that bridges the gap between That's It For The Other One and New Potato Caboose on Anthem Of The Sun, along with playing keyboards on Aoxomoxoa and Live/Dead.

    I think he felt his role in the band was a bit limited, though. He said the Dead was largely "Jerry's back up band" and as such, there wasn't much room for TC to play any solos. He also said that Jerry's Fender Twins (four of them!) were so loud onstage that "his mezzo-piano was louder than my mezzo-forte" (translation for those who don't dig Italian: even when he played softly, Jerry tended to drown out TC's contributions).

    I think it might have been interesting if TC and Phil could have steered the band into more avant garde directions. As much as Jerry was into "weird stuff", he was never going to abandon the more traditional stuff he was into. I think he had a lot to do with why a lot of the more complex compositions got dropped from the live rotation. I think Jerry just didn't like having to play stuff that required him to spend a lot of time in a rehearsal room playing something again and again to make it sound right. Consider that when the rest of the band regrouped in the 210th century, things like New Potato Caboose, Cryptical Envelopment, St. Stephen, The Eleven and Born Cross Eyed re-emerged onstage.

    I also feel it might have been interesting if the band could have worked more with Ned Lagin. I think he would have been a better choice for keyboardist than Keith Godchaux. But I guess Ned didn't want to be in the band full time, and I get the impression there was a contingency within the Dead's circle (whether it was band members, management, or others) who felt Ned was having a "bad influence" on Phil and Jerry.

  15. #40
    ^ There's certainly a point of truth to all that, and to be frank; my Dead-digging days are rather far behind now, but even at their most intense I would skip over "Johnny B. Goode" (on Skullfuck) and the like. Definitely -not- what I wanted to hear the band do.

    But even their non-psychedelic brand of idiosyncratic "rootser" rock was pretty intriguing at times; stuff like "Weather Report Suite" et al. And then the more 'progressive' kinda thing, as in "Terrapin" or "Unbroken Chain" or almost the entire Allah - nothing else sounded like this ever. They could, on effort, come across as impressively original.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Progdreamer View Post
    Is it ok to say I really didn't miss Carl Palmer on this tour?



    I didn't either. That album is better than In The Hot Seat and 3

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    But even their non-psychedelic brand of idiosyncratic "rootser" rock was pretty intriguing at times; stuff like "Weather Report Suite" et al. And then the more 'progressive' kinda thing, as in "Terrapin" or "Unbroken Chain" or almost the entire Allah - nothing else sounded like this ever. They could, on effort, come across as impressively original.
    Anything available (live) that focuses on this side that you speak of?

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by ytserush View Post
    Anything available (live) that focuses on this side that you speak of?
    I'm not sure of the current availability of any of the various archival releases they've put out, but a good places to go are the studio albums Anthem Of The Sun, Aoxomoxoa, and Blues For Allah. There's new double CD editions of the first two that have both original mixes from 68 and 69 and the early 70's remixes.

    Also worth checking out, and again I don't know if it's still available, but plunderphonic artist John Oswald's Grey Folded (pronounced like the band's name) is a double CD trip through the band's vault, cutting, pasting, and remixing numerous live versions of Dark Star.

    For live stuff, you might go over to Youtube and look for shows from circa 1968-1974. A few of my favorites:

    10/22/67 Great early versions of New Potato Caboose and That's It For The Other One
    1/20/68 Municipal Auditorium, Eureka California A great Clementine/New Potato Caboose/Space/Spanish Jam/Alligator Jam/Dark Star sequence (the version I have, cuts off as the band plays the Dark Star intro, the very same one that ends disc one of Grey Folded, incidentally)
    1/26/69 Avalon Ballroom The Live/Dead version of The Eleven is here, as well as the rarely played Clementine (which supposedly, nobody even knew existed until sometime in the 90's, when Dick Latvala found a few tapes from 68 and 69 in the vault of them doing the song, including this one)
    2/14/68 Carousel Ballroom Early versions of Dark Star, China Cat Sunflower, and the entire Anthem Of The Sun album. In fact, a lot of the Anthem Of The Sun album was derived from this show (they spliced together tapes from a number of live shows, along with some studio stuff, to create the finished album, but apparently, this show was used a great deal).
    2/27/69 Fillmore West Second Set, includes the Dark Star and St. Stephen that were used on Live/Dead, as well as a great partially acoustic (acoustic guitars, electric organ) Mountains Of The Moon that segues into the fully electric Dark Star
    3/1/69 Fillmore West A great Dark Star/St. Stephen/The Eleven sequence during the second set, but the first set is why I'm mentioning this one, as it's one continuous suite of That's It For The Other One/New Potato Caboose (ending with a great, if somewhat out of tune bass solo)/Doin' That Rag/Cosmic Charlie.
    4/21-23/69 The Ark, Boston Three really great in Boston, each night features an excellent Dark Star/St. Stephen/The Eleven suite, with the one of the 22 being preceded by Mountains Of The Moon.
    4/26/69 Kinetic Playground, Chicago mainly the 40 minute finale of Viola Lee Blues/Feedback/What's Become Of The Baby/We Bid You Goodnight
    2/13/70 Fillmore East Great Dark Star/That's It For The Other One combo that lasts just under an hour, this was issued on Dick's Picks 4
    4/7/72 Empire Pool London Opening night of the legendary Europe '72 tour. Includes a great Truckin'/The Other One/El Paso/The Other One suite Whatever possessed Bob to stick a Marty Robins cover into the middle of an extended psychedelic improv vehicle is anybody's guess, but this is a great performance. I think this was issued on Steppin' Out With The Grateful Dead (and of course, it appears on that stupid boxset they put out of the full tour)
    4/8/72 Empire Pool London The Dark Star from this show was excerpted on a triple LP various artists set called Glastonbury Fayre, which reputedly chronicled "the British answer to Woodstock", except it's a known fact the Dead didn't even play Glastonbury
    5/11/72 Rotterdam All you need to know about this show is it has a 46 minute Dark Star (the longest ever).
    5/26/72 The Strand Theater, LondonSides five and six were excerpted from the Truckin'/The Other One/Morning Dew/The Other One/Sing Me Back Home suite (note: this last song was one of the few country covers the band did where they didn't sound like a spectacularly mediocre bar band)
    2/15/73 (fantastic Dark Star/Eyes Of The World/China Doll suite, and I'm not just saying that because I was born the day before...this was the second ever Wall Of Sound show, and the second ever time they'd played Eyes Of The World and China Doll before an audience)
    8/27/72 Veneta Oregon A lot of people will tell you this is the best show the Dead ever played. I'm inclined to disagree, but once again, there's an extremely worthy Dark Star (actually, the whole show is pretty awesome, with a low covers count) This was released on a triple CD/DVD release called Sunshine Daydream a few years ago (I've actually had most of the DVD on a bootleg VHS since the 90's, but it was awesome to finally see it in pristine quality...caveat: there's a naked dancing on a pole behind Jerry during part of the show)
    2/15/73 Madison, Wisconsin fantastic Dark Star/Eyes Of The World/China Doll suite, and I'm not just saying that because I was born the day before...this was the second ever Wall Of Sound show, and the second ever time they'd played Eyes Of The World and China Doll before an audience. Tip: skip the version of You Ain't Woman Enough. You don't really need to hear Donna Godchaux trying to sing like Loretta Lynn.
    3/28/73 Springfield Massachusetts Second set features Weather Report Suite Prelude/Dark Star/Eyes Of The World/Playin' In The Band. Look for the audience tape, because for some strange reason every known copy of the soundboard has this weird hum on it, like the tape machine was put to something that was causing interference or something. The audience tape is actually very good sound quality, and the audience is very quiet (something you wouldn't have thought was possible with an American crowd)
    7/27/73 Watkins Glen Raceway The "dress rehearsal/soundcheck" for the following day's fest, the Dead play for something like 90 minutes. Back in the late 80's, when I first got into the Dead, I heard it said that this recording was actually more revered from the "proper" festival performance the following day. There's a great improv that segues into Wharf Rat, which I remember hearing on the Grateful Dead Hour back then. A favorite of mine now.
    6/16/74 Des Moines, Iowa There's a couple extended jams in this one, including one during Playin' In The Band. On a couple songs on this show, somebody onstage (or maybe out at the soundboard, or even backstage, who knows?) is playing a synth, but to this day I have no idea who. Keith Godchaux basically disliked playing anything besides acoustic piano and Fender Rhodes, but he was known to occasionally use synth (he had a Polymoog in his 1977 era rig), but I'm not sure if it's him or Ned Lagin here. There's no real solos or anything, just the occaisional filter sweep and droning during the improvs.
    6/18/74 Louisville Kentucky Second set features a great Weather Report Suite/The Other One/Stella Blue sequence. Again, there's some mystery guest synth work during The Other One freak out.
    6/26/74 Providence Rhode Island This show was excerpted on Dicks Picks 12, highlight some great second set jamming, including a rare instance of Jerry using a fuzztone (well, pre-late 70's fuzztone, he used distortion pedals regularly about 76 or so)
    6/28/74 Boston Garden I actually had a copy of this show, with the stereo field reversed, I recorded from a college radio show back in the late 80's, with a tape flip in the middle of the big improv. This has another great Weather Report Suite, which segues into US Blues via a long improv. All the good bits are also on Dicks Picks 12.
    6/4-5/74 Spectrum, Philadelphia Excerpted on one of the later Dicks Picks (32, or something like that?), great improvs during the second set. The 6/5 show I had on cassette for years before the official release came out, and it always broke my heart to hear Stella Blue get cut off during the second verse, so I was elated to hear the rest of the song on the official release.
    6/6/74 Jersey City There's a great Eyes Of The World which ends rather abruptly, apparently so Weir could tell the audience members to stop climbing on the security fence in front of the stage. This is then followed by a 30 minute plus Playin In The Band/Scarlet Begonias/Playin reprise. Try to seek out the bootleg version, as they left the second set suite from the official release.
    9/11/74 Alexandria Palace, London Second Set: Phil & Ned/improv/Eyes Of The World/Improv/Wharf Rat (and it's more than an hour long)
    10/16/74 Winterland Another Phil & Ned sequence that segues first into a full band improv, then another Eyes Of The World. Unfortunately, the version I have has a cut in the middle, but it's still worthy. I love the way they get to the end of Eyes, and you hear Jerry sort of improvising on his own, sounding off like he's looking to segue into something...
    10/17/74 Winterland If you've seen the Grateful Dead Movie, then long improv that appears to segue into Morning Dew, came from this show. The Stella Blue in the movie is also from this show, as is The Other One that appears on the bonus disc with the DVD release. The entire He's Gone/Weirdness/The Other One/Stella Blue sequence appears unedited on the soundtrack release.
    10/18/74 Phil & Ned/Dark Star/Morning Dew (the Morning Dew that was in the movie, btw)
    3/23/75 Kezar Stadium, San Francisco The Dead perform at an all day benefit concert, broadcast on KSAN radio, and what do they deliver? A work in progress non sequiter of an instrumental (well, a non sequiter given the circumstances), which I believe at the time had the working title of Space Age, but basically they're playing what later became known as Blues For Allah itself and Stronger Than Dirt.

  19. #44
    WOuld you believe my first draft of that last post was originally more than 18,000 characters too long?! So I edited out a few bits. I probably should have edited out more, because it is a bit wordy, ya know. Ignore the underlined bits, that's me hitting the wrong button on the html tags or whatever you call it.

    And I think we can officially say I just hijacked this thread!

  20. #45
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    ...
    And I think we can officially say I just hijacked this thread!


    Feel free to fire up a separate thread.

    Meantime, "back to your originally scheduled programming..."
    Regards,

    Duncan

    This place has become the "Cheers" of the Internet.
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  21. #46
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post


    Feel free to fire up a separate thread.

    Meantime, "back to your originally scheduled programming..."
    I believe he's in the process of hijacking the Frank Marino thread as well.

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