The Devaluation of Music: It’s Worse Than You Think

[infandous]

Love these comments so far. I am realizing though, that at age 50, I'm less "progressive" than a lot of you older guys. Or maybe just less realistic? I don't know. But it's good to be reminded that time marches on and so does culture, politics and the youth of the world. I suppose it could be because in the 80's and 90's I was one of those, "nothing will ever be as good as the 60's and 70's" guys when it came to music. That was also the time when I made the most connections with music and was most passionate about my own music. So despite trying to branch out since my 30's, I probably still have that mindset, even if unconsciously. My own parents have been much more flexible with the times than I have been (well, my father mostly, but my mother to a lesser extent).

Anyway, despite my clinging to the past in some ways, I still have hope for the future and I've never thought that music would "die" in any case. Just that it may go to places I can't get myself to go. Which is, of course, more my problem than a problem with music and music makers.

[Scrotum Scissor]

that's rather typical of western or occidental behaviour... most of us start our adult and pre-adult by fighting our parents or grandparents political views (often seen as "established retrogrades or conservatives"), but as we become older parents or even grandparents, their PoV don't appear so idiotic anymore, because we've (or more like our generation, including the "square heads") become the establishment, whether we like it or not.

I'm not buying this theory of the perpetual continuum, and it's as much a change of as a shift in basic paradigm - i.e. in an already existing one. Cultural collapse entails something altogether far more fundamental and far-reaching, and in the end it's mostly about whether you'll condone its consequence or not. Getting "more conservative" with age - that trope tends to lose force as well as meaning when implications of change itself aren't fully comprehended. The other imminent trope - 'we know what we've got but not what we'll get' - still stands firm as ever.

[Jay.Dee]

I suppose it could be because in the 80's and 90's I was one of those, "nothing will ever be as good as the 60's and 70's" guys when it came to music.

Everything needed to change, so everything could stay the same.

Will there continue to be jam bands? If people look backward, there won’t. If people start writing new music using the language of improvisation, sure. But if you’re just celebrating something that happened in 1970, it’s got to die. [...]

I had dinner with a young band. I’m not going to say their name. We had this big dinner, and I said, “Who’s your favorite band?” They were naming these ’70s bands. This nostalgia thing going on in the whole music scene, it’s killing me. Anderson .Paak and Kendrick Lamar and people like that are moving forward. I also like King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard a lot. They’re not a jam band, but they love the act of creation, and you can feel it. But, God, of all the people to be talking about nostalgia: Trey from the hippie band. Maybe that’s why I’m grappling with this. I’m feeling the needle pointing a little bit backward. [...]

Nostalgia can be valid and good. I think it’s a baby-boomer thing. A lot of the tours that are out now — I mean, I like Queen. I didn’t get to see the original Queen. I like Adam Lambert. Lambert has taken over Freddie Mercury’s lead-singer spot in the current incarnation of Queen. He’s a great guy, a great singer. But I have this twinge of, Hey, man, make another album.

I’m not picking on anyone. I love those guys, but you know, Phish came up in ’83, ’84, ’85. I think about all this good music that happened then — Minutemen, Bad Brains — which was a reaction against that baby-boomer thing. Even Bowie was writing “All the Young Dudes”: “And my brother’s back at home/With his Beatles and his Stones.” It’s a fascination with, like, a window of time, 1966 to 1973. It’s got to give at some point. If you took the musicians that were great in 1970 and said “We want you to play music from 50 years ago,” they’d be playing John Philip Sousa or something. It’s crazy.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...sio-phish.html

[boilk]

^^ There are a lot of really good jam bands, with proggy tendencies around, so not sure how anyone would think otherwise. Umphrey's McGee, Dopapod, Mungion, Tauk, Broccoli Samarai, just to name a few, off the top of my head. No shortage of quality bands in this genre, in my opinion.

neil

[wilcox660]

$1.73

[Trane]

I'm not buying this theory of the perpetual continuum, and it's as much a change of as a shift in basic paradigm - i.e. in an already existing one. Cultural collapse entails something altogether far more fundamental and far-reaching, and in the end it's mostly about whether you'll condone its consequence or not. Getting "more conservative" with age - that trope tends to lose force as well as meaning when implications of change itself aren't fully comprehended. The other imminent trope - 'we know what we've got but not what we'll get' - still stands firm as ever.

Richard,

my comment was more on a general/broader view of life as a whole, not just of music's role in our lives

[Scrotum Scissor]

my comment was more on a general/broader view of life as a whole, not just of music's role in our lives

As was mine. That's why the "cultural collapse".

I'm honestly not really that taken with the "death of rock" as such.

[Jay.Dee]

That's why the "cultural collapse"

I don't know how it has been in Norway, but in many other parts of the world the general/mass "culture" wasn't exactly peaking for the last few decades...

[Steve983]

This discussion reminded me of the lyrics to Joni Mitchell's Dog Eat Dog from 1985:

Land of snap decisions
Land of short attention spans
Nothing is savored
Long enough to really understand
In every culture in decline
The watchful ones among the slaves
Know all that is genuine will be
Scorned and conned and cast away

[wilcox660]

Am I incorrect in thinking that it's pretty much always been a broken system in terms of the artists? There's always been the Tommy Mottolas of the world in mansions built on the backs of musicians. Technology has changed. Consumption methods have changed. Nothing else.

[mogrooves]

On the intersection of music, technology, and inequality:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/o...n-krueger.html

[Scrotum Scissor]

I don't know how it has been in Norway, but in many other parts of the world the general/mass "culture" wasn't exactly peaking for the last few decades...

Well, this is true; it was a continuous downward spiral.

From some point.

[Zeuhlmate]

Well, this is true; it was a continuous downward spiral.

From some point.

Norway is allways behind

[Vic2012]

I don't think music has been devaluated. I have hundreds of CDs and I have Youtube. All the albums I want to hear, or have ever wanted to hear are on Youtube. Because of Youtube I'm still buying CDs.

[Zappathustra]

I don't think music has been devaluated. I have hundreds of CDs and I have Youtube. All the albums I want to hear, or have ever wanted to hear are on Youtube. Because of Youtube I'm still buying CDs.

But we're not talking about you, or anyone else in the forum, whose love for music is already established. I believe we're talking about the youngsters. If you have kids, you might have noticed the difference from near - a difference which is visible anyway. Music does not play the same role in their lives as it did for us. We're trying to interpret what is going on there.

[Vic2012]

Music plays a large part of my daughter's life. I really don't care how she consumes music. She loves music. She sings and plays guitar.

[Zeuhlmate]

But we're not talking about you, or anyone else in the forum, whose love for music is already established. I believe we're talking about the youngsters. If you have kids, you might have noticed the difference from near - a difference which is visible anyway. Music does not play the same role in their lives as it did for us. We're trying to interpret what is going on there.

Yes, its about statistics.
Netflix, Counterstrike, Instagram etc. is more important these days

[Splicer]

I'm a firm believer that the jettisoning of music and art education in schools has done a great deal of damage to the appreciation of the arts. How will these kids be exposed to Classical or Jazz or anything that isn't simply the pop music of the moment? Maybe at home if they're lucky. The cost of education is an investment in the future. The politicians have eaten the seed corn and now there's no crop.

[Jay.Dee]

Norway is allways behind

Danes, you better watch out!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcJZ3-cJKc

[Scrotum Scissor]

Norway is allways behind

Watch it, Daneman! We're actually so far ahead of time we've encircled and reached back breathing down everybody else's neck!

[Trane]

I don't know how it has been in Norway, but in many other parts of the world the general/mass "culture" wasn't exactly peaking for the last few decades...

Well, this is true; it was a continuous downward spiral.

From some point.

our sense of what is culture, you mean

One man's culture is another man's junk.

But I agree that recent mass culture is certainly not elevating to unheard levels

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ I was speaking of "culture" as civilization, not as commodity. Obviously, from the perspective of a peadophile cannibal our civilization/culture is mostly junk.

[Zeuhlmate]

Danes, you better watch out!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcJZ3-cJKc

Swedes has never been taken seriously in Denmark.

[Zeuhlmate]

Watch it, Daneman! We're actually so far ahead of time we've encircled and reached back breathing down everybody else's neck!

Musical contortionism ?

Compared to the Danish musical scene you are behind - and that is definively a good thing - you are still making great music.

[Yodelgoat]

You have to look for the places to find a vibrant music culture. It doesn't come to you anymore - via radio and store sales. But it IS there. Dive bars are a great place to find it. I went to one wed night, and there were 15+ artists there with their guitars, another perhaps 50 people were there just to listen. Its not an arena concert, but it was a good night of music I would never hear anywhere else on the planet.