Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 62

Thread: The Devaluation of Music: Itís Worse Than You Think

  1. #26
    Love these comments so far. I am realizing though, that at age 50, I'm less "progressive" than a lot of you older guys. Or maybe just less realistic? I don't know. But it's good to be reminded that time marches on and so does culture, politics and the youth of the world. I suppose it could be because in the 80's and 90's I was one of those, "nothing will ever be as good as the 60's and 70's" guys when it came to music. That was also the time when I made the most connections with music and was most passionate about my own music. So despite trying to branch out since my 30's, I probably still have that mindset, even if unconsciously. My own parents have been much more flexible with the times than I have been (well, my father mostly, but my mother to a lesser extent).

    Anyway, despite my clinging to the past in some ways, I still have hope for the future and I've never thought that music would "die" in any case. Just that it may go to places I can't get myself to go. Which is, of course, more my problem than a problem with music and music makers.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    that's rather typical of western or occidental behaviour... most of us start our adult and pre-adult by fighting our parents or grandparents political views (often seen as "established retrogrades or conservatives"), but as we become older parents or even grandparents, their PoV don't appear so idiotic anymore, because we've (or more like our generation, including the "square heads") become the establishment, whether we like it or not.
    I'm not buying this theory of the perpetual continuum, and it's as much a change of as a shift in basic paradigm - i.e. in an already existing one. Cultural collapse entails something altogether far more fundamental and far-reaching, and in the end it's mostly about whether you'll condone its consequence or not. Getting "more conservative" with age - that trope tends to lose force as well as meaning when implications of change itself aren't fully comprehended. The other imminent trope - 'we know what we've got but not what we'll get' - still stands firm as ever.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  3. #28
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by infandous View Post
    I suppose it could be because in the 80's and 90's I was one of those, "nothing will ever be as good as the 60's and 70's" guys when it came to music.
    Everything needed to change, so everything could stay the same.

    Will there continue to be jam bands? If people look backward, there won’t. If people start writing new music using the language of improvisation, sure. But if you’re just celebrating something that happened in 1970, it’s got to die. [...]

    I had dinner with a young band. I’m not going to say their name. We had this big dinner, and I said, “Who’s your favorite band?” They were naming these ’70s bands. This nostalgia thing going on in the whole music scene, it’s killing me. Anderson .Paak and Kendrick Lamar and people like that are moving forward. I also like King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard a lot. They’re not a jam band, but they love the act of creation, and you can feel it. But, God, of all the people to be talking about nostalgia: Trey from the hippie band. Maybe that’s why I’m grappling with this. I’m feeling the needle pointing a little bit backward. [...]

    Nostalgia can be valid and good. I think it’s a baby-boomer thing. A lot of the tours that are out now — I mean, I like Queen. I didn’t get to see the original Queen. I like Adam Lambert. Lambert has taken over Freddie Mercury’s lead-singer spot in the current incarnation of Queen. He’s a great guy, a great singer. But I have this twinge of, Hey, man, make another album.

    I’m not picking on anyone. I love those guys, but you know, Phish came up in ’83, ’84, ’85. I think about all this good music that happened then — Minutemen, Bad Brains — which was a reaction against that baby-boomer thing. Even Bowie was writing “All the Young Dudes”: “And my brother’s back at home/With his Beatles and his Stones.” It’s a fascination with, like, a window of time, 1966 to 1973. It’s got to give at some point. If you took the musicians that were great in 1970 and said “We want you to play music from 50 years ago,” they’d be playing John Philip Sousa or something. It’s crazy.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...sio-phish.html

  4. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    553
    ^^ There are a lot of really good jam bands, with proggy tendencies around, so not sure how anyone would think otherwise. Umphrey's McGee, Dopapod, Mungion, Tauk, Broccoli Samarai, just to name a few, off the top of my head. No shortage of quality bands in this genre, in my opinion.

    neil

  5. #30
    $1.73
    Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!

  6. #31
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brussels
    Posts
    3,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I'm not buying this theory of the perpetual continuum, and it's as much a change of as a shift in basic paradigm - i.e. in an already existing one. Cultural collapse entails something altogether far more fundamental and far-reaching, and in the end it's mostly about whether you'll condone its consequence or not. Getting "more conservative" with age - that trope tends to lose force as well as meaning when implications of change itself aren't fully comprehended. The other imminent trope - 'we know what we've got but not what we'll get' - still stands firm as ever.
    Richard,

    my comment was more on a general/broader view of life as a whole, not just of music's role in our lives
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    my comment was more on a general/broader view of life as a whole, not just of music's role in our lives
    As was mine. That's why the "cultural collapse".

    I'm honestly not really that taken with the "death of rock" as such.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  8. #33
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    That's why the "cultural collapse"
    I don't know how it has been in Norway, but in many other parts of the world the general/mass "culture" wasn't exactly peaking for the last few decades...

  9. #34
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Sussex, England.
    Posts
    1,046
    This discussion reminded me of the lyrics to Joni Mitchell's Dog Eat Dog from 1985:

    Land of snap decisions
    Land of short attention spans
    Nothing is savored
    Long enough to really understand
    In every culture in decline
    The watchful ones among the slaves
    Know all that is genuine will be
    Scorned and conned and cast away

  10. #35
    Am I incorrect in thinking that it's pretty much always been a broken system in terms of the artists? There's always been the Tommy Mottolas of the world in mansions built on the backs of musicians. Technology has changed. Consumption methods have changed. Nothing else.
    Sleeping at home is killing the hotel business!

  11. #36
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    The Past
    Posts
    1,807
    On the intersection of music, technology, and inequality:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/o...n-krueger.html
    Michael: "Harold, don't you have any other music, you know, from [last] century?"
    Harold: "There is no other music....."

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    I don't know how it has been in Norway, but in many other parts of the world the general/mass "culture" wasn't exactly peaking for the last few decades...
    Well, this is true; it was a continuous downward spiral.

    From some point.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  13. #38
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    3,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Well, this is true; it was a continuous downward spiral.

    From some point.
    Norway is allways behind

  14. #39
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    3,620
    I don't think music has been devaluated. I have hundreds of CDs and I have Youtube. All the albums I want to hear, or have ever wanted to hear are on Youtube. Because of Youtube I'm still buying CDs.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I don't think music has been devaluated. I have hundreds of CDs and I have Youtube. All the albums I want to hear, or have ever wanted to hear are on Youtube. Because of Youtube I'm still buying CDs.
    But we're not talking about you, or anyone else in the forum, whose love for music is already established. I believe we're talking about the youngsters. If you have kids, you might have noticed the difference from near - a difference which is visible anyway. Music does not play the same role in their lives as it did for us. We're trying to interpret what is going on there.

  16. #41
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    3,620
    Music plays a large part of my daughter's life. I really don't care how she consumes music. She loves music. She sings and plays guitar.

  17. #42
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    3,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    But we're not talking about you, or anyone else in the forum, whose love for music is already established. I believe we're talking about the youngsters. If you have kids, you might have noticed the difference from near - a difference which is visible anyway. Music does not play the same role in their lives as it did for us. We're trying to interpret what is going on there.
    Yes, its about statistics.
    Netflix, Counterstrike, Instagram etc. is more important these days

  18. #43
    I'm a firm believer that the jettisoning of music and art education in schools has done a great deal of damage to the appreciation of the arts. How will these kids be exposed to Classical or Jazz or anything that isn't simply the pop music of the moment? Maybe at home if they're lucky. The cost of education is an investment in the future. The politicians have eaten the seed corn and now there's no crop.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

  19. #44
    Member Jay.Dee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Barcelona
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Norway is allways behind
    Danes, you better watch out!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcJZ3-cJKc

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Norway is allways behind
    Watch it, Daneman! We're actually so far ahead of time we've encircled and reached back breathing down everybody else's neck!

    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  21. #46
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Brussels
    Posts
    3,212
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    I don't know how it has been in Norway, but in many other parts of the world the general/mass "culture" wasn't exactly peaking for the last few decades...
    Well, this is true; it was a continuous downward spiral.

    From some point.
    our sense of what is culture, you mean

    One man's culture is another man's junk.

    But I agree that recent mass culture is certainly not elevating to unheard levels
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  22. #47
    ^ I was speaking of "culture" as civilization, not as commodity. Obviously, from the perspective of a peadophile cannibal our civilization/culture is mostly junk.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  23. #48
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    3,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay.Dee View Post
    Danes, you better watch out!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcJZ3-cJKc
    Swedes has never been taken seriously in Denmark.

  24. #49
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Posts
    3,246
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Watch it, Daneman! We're actually so far ahead of time we've encircled and reached back breathing down everybody else's neck!

    Musical contortionism ?

    Compared to the Danish musical scene you are behind - and that is definively a good thing - you are still making great music.
    Last edited by Zeuhlmate; 1 Week Ago at 12:41 PM.

  25. #50
    You have to look for the places to find a vibrant music culture. It doesn't come to you anymore - via radio and store sales. But it IS there. Dive bars are a great place to find it. I went to one wed night, and there were 15+ artists there with their guitars, another perhaps 50 people were there just to listen. Its not an arena concert, but it was a good night of music I would never hear anywhere else on the planet.
    I got nothin'

    ...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •