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Thread: Group & Orchestra

  1. #51
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    Founded in Budapest in 1986, After Crying are an important band of *Chamber progressive* genre. A Gadarai Megszállott (The Fanatic Of Gadarai) is a 22-minute masterpiece from their sophomore album released in 1992:


  2. #52
    Whether it works or not has a lot to do with mixing for me. So long as the more intimate instruments (read: the band) are mixed up close, I think the two can work in tandem pretty well. I.E, don't drown out the electric bass, drums or guitars, and if necessary, cut back on the overall orchestral texture (even if you have to squash some frequencies) to prioritize and accommodate the band first. The thicker textures of the orchestra don't tend to co-exist well with the sharp attacks of rock instruments and can easily overwhelm the cohesion of a song. The textures of the guitar, bass and drums are especially fragile, and if they aren't crisp as can be, they will lose all character. I know from my own experiences trying to mix the two that it's a real headache to do, so I admire anyone that has the guts to try.

    That said, there are lots of great examples of it done well. I also don't think Pink Floyd belongs on the list of failures in this department. All I've heard from them with symphonic accompaniment has been beautiful and mostly mixed exactly as I described: with the band clearly up front and the orchestral instruments crushed mostly in the background to either double the harmonies or provide filler. In a purely organic, orchestral environment, a well orchestrated song is already balanced. But the nature of our electric instruments is such that they really need to be given a unique space all their own in a mix. When engineers opt to place more attention on the orchestral texture instead, it just butchers the band.

    An example of it done well.


  3. #53
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake View Post
    I think my favourite pairing of rock band with strings is Pete Townshend's 'Street in the City' from his album with Ronnie Lane - 'Rough Mix'. Don't know if this was ever done live with the ensemble but it is perfectly scored with the band and the strings not getting in each others' way.
    IIRC there's only Townshend with an acoustic guitar & the orchestra.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ It's like a sympho-bonanza of all their greatest tits!!
    You can hardly see them, because the instruments are in the way.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jake View Post
    I think my favourite pairing of rock band with strings is Pete Townshend's 'Street in the City' from his album with Ronnie Lane - 'Rough Mix'. Don't know if this was ever done live with the ensemble but it is perfectly scored with the band and the strings not getting in each others' way.
    Street In The City is certainly a great example of the seventies' *Art Rock* genre, although there's not a really band on it - "only" Mr Townshend and his acoustic guitar.
    Regarding Art Rock songs that featured a group & orchestra, Sir Elton John's early phase immediately come to mind. Thus, I would like to mention Sir Elton's songs The Greatest Discovery and The King Must Die, both from Elton John s/t LP from 1970, and Levon the song from his Madman Across the Water LP from 1971. I think that these songs are just perfect examples of group & orchestra apropos the early seventies' English Art Rock - thanks to London's composer, conductor, cello player and arranger Paul Buckmaster (RIP).






  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwoll View Post
    Peter Gabriel and the New Blood Orchestra is pretty good.
    Oh yeah, I love it, but the London Symphony Orchestra features on my all time favourite songs by him.




  7. #57
    I just can't wait for the next video and complementary artist introduction!

    Please write something about how Univers Zero are "non-prog" too, like you did when you were Juba.

    Will Juba ever return, Svetonio? Where did Juba go?

    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  8. #58
    I will add David Bedford -as an orchestrator- to the list of successful attempts to blend group and orchestra.
    Macht das ohr auf!

    COSMIC EYE RECORDS

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by spacefreak View Post
    I will add David Bedford -as an orchestrator- to the list
    Now THIS I agree with. Although when he put Oldfield's Telecaster into the midst of his own Star's End it came out unusually harsh and, well, rather bizarre. He composed more successful orchestral works, of course. And much of the orchestration he did for others was, as mentioned, one-of-a-kind; the strings to Edgar Broughton Band's "Evening Over Rooftops" are astoundingly effective, and Roy Harper's "Me And My Woman" elevates to schorching heights under wing of Bedford's string.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  10. #60
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    I wonder why nobody mentioned The Enid since they are the true legends of Chamber Prog genre. Here are my absolute favourities by this amazing band - The Devil from their debut album released in 1976, and One and the Many from Invicta (2013)




  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by daoubourg View Post
    I wonder why nobody mentioned The Enid since they are the true legends of Chamber Prog genre. Here are my absolute favourities by this amazing band - The Devil from their debut album released in 1976, and One and the Many from Invicta (2013)
    I don't think they used an orchestra on those albums.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wah3 View Post
    Alan Parsons (e.g. Turn of a Friendly Card)
    ...or In the Lap of the Gods from Pyramid


  13. #63
    I absolytt don't understand why no mention of James Last Orkester as they are true legend of Chamber even more than de Enids.

    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #64
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    Without hesitation, the Russian duo Iamthemorning is the most interesting Chamber Prog act of the present day. These songs are my favourities from their five-star masterpieces of Chamber Prog genre - Romance (from Belighted, 2014) and Too Many Years (from Lighthouse, 2016)




  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by daoubourg View Post
    Without hesitation, the Russian duo Iamthemorning is the most interesting Chamber Prog act of the present day. These songs are my favourities from their five-star masterpieces of Chamber Prog genre - Romance (from Belighted, 2014) and Too Many Years (from Lighthouse, 2016)
    They are indeed a lovley band, but they don't have anything to do with Chamber Prog...

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by daoubourg View Post
    Without hesitation, the Russian duo Iamthemorning is the most interesting Chamber Prog act of the present day.
    Yes, Svetonio - without any blink of hesitation whatsoever!! And there's not much point of an argument to support it either.

    Please keep 'em videos comin' on strong without hesitation.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  17. #67
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    He just can't help himself.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
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  18. #68
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    I absolytt don't understand why no mention of James Last Orkester as they are true legend of Chamber even more than de Enids.

    You forgot Mantovani and his orchestra - true proggers way ahead of their time !

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    They are indeed a lovley band, but they don't have anything to do with Chamber Prog...
    Well, maybe not - depending on what you mean by the Chamber Prog genre - but I'm certainly not the only one who labeled them as such - after a short search, I found these three articles, although I do not doubt that there are still such articles that labeled them Chamber Prog as well:
    http://progressivecircus.com/?page_id=862
    https://avxhm.is/music/Iamthemorning_Lighthouse.html
    http://www.theweb-uk.com/news-0020.html

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by daoubourg View Post
    Well, maybe not - depending on what you mean by the Chamber Prog genre - but I'm certainly not the only one who labeled them as such - after a short search, I found these three articles, although I do not doubt that there are still such articles that labeled them Chamber Prog as well:
    http://progressivecircus.com/?page_id=862
    https://avxhm.is/music/Iamthemorning_Lighthouse.html
    http://www.theweb-uk.com/news-0020.html
    Absolutely wonderful, were it not for the fact that those writers obviously aren't more aware of the term's origins than you are. Now where's Juba? He knew very much about 'Chamber Prog genre' as well, and he really wouldn't hesitate to name Iamthemorning as the best of them - although they don't qualify. Still, we should get Juba in here to check for recognition.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  21. #71
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    He just can't help himself.
    It does seem to be a compulsion.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
    -- Aristotle
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by daoubourg View Post
    Well, maybe not - depending on what you mean by the Chamber Prog genre - but I'm certainly not the only one who labeled them as such - after a short search, I found these three articles, although I do not doubt that there are still such articles that labeled them Chamber Prog as well:
    http://progressivecircus.com/?page_id=862
    https://avxhm.is/music/Iamthemorning_Lighthouse.html
    http://www.theweb-uk.com/news-0020.html

    Sorry I'm not a fan of lables, but the lable Chamber Prog is used for ages for bands like Univers Zero, Art Zoyd or Gatto Marte.

    Simply using classical instruments doesn't make you a Chamber Prog band...

    and other people missusing that term doesnt make it Right...

  23. #73
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    Anthony Phillips' Regrets the song must not be forgotten.


  24. #74
    Please stop.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  25. #75
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    Another Chamber Prog gem is coming from A Beekeeper's Garden the album (2018) by British artist Paul Gunn: https://paulgunn.bandcamp.com/track/lviv-sunday-morning

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