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Thread: King Crimson on Spotify

  1. #1

    King Crimson on Spotify

    Just seen that most of the KC catalogue has finally appeared on Spotify, and maybe on iTunes and other streaming services. I think Mr Fripp was one of the last holder outers.

    Good news, it'll make my morning commute a little more jarring!

    They've missed Court and Red though, which are the only omissions as far as I can see, but both essential. Any idea why?

    Other than that, great news and overdue

  2. #2
    Worthy of Laudation thedunno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    Just seen that most of the KC catalogue has finally appeared on Spotify, and maybe on iTunes and other streaming services. I think Mr Fripp was one of the last holder outers.

    Good news, it'll make my morning commute a little more jarring!

    They've missed Court and Red though, which are the only omissions as far as I can see, but both essential. Any idea why?

    Other than that, great news and overdue
    It makes me sad to read this.

  3. #3
    Why? I've had all the albums for time, both records and CD's. I can't play them on the bus in the morning! Ripping them to MP3s and putting them on the phone is a terrible faff. It's great!

    It does make me sad that ITCOTCK and Red are missing, yes.

  4. #4
    Traversing The Dream 100423's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    Just seen that most of the KC catalogue has finally appeared on Spotify, and maybe on iTunes and other streaming services. I think Mr Fripp was one of the last holder outers.

    Good news, it'll make my morning commute a little more jarring!

    They've missed Court and Red though, which are the only omissions as far as I can see, but both essential. Any idea why?

    Other than that, great news and overdue
    No LTiA either

  5. #5
    Worthy of Laudation thedunno's Avatar
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    Good music is art. Art should come at a price. If the likes of KC are available for (almost) free what chance have young exiting acts to make some money from their art?

  6. #6
    @100423 Oh yes of course, sorry!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    Good music is art. Art should come at a price. If the likes of KC are available for (almost) free what chance have young exiting acts to make some money from their art?
    By touring? People have been taping/copying for years which makes the arguments against streaming weaker. I reckon most of the albums I bought as a teenager found their way onto 6-10 C90 cassettes that friends passed me and I only bought 1/10 of the albums I wanted as lots of my friends liked the same kind of music. It's not new. What we did do though, is go and watch those bands play, and bought the t shirts and the rest.

    I think this is a positive thing and will enhance their audience.

  8. #8
    Worthy of Laudation thedunno's Avatar
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    I heared the 'make money by playing live' a lot. It only works if you operate in the mainstream ; if you can do a lot of shows in short geographical distances. For more complex or expirimental music the audience is more widespread and the costs of touring quicky outweigh the benefits.

    How many prog acts do world tours? As far as I know only the old guys.

  9. #9
    In case anyone missed it, the announcement a couple months ago about KC on Spotify with David Singleton explaining their reasons:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...potify-818686/

  10. #10
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    Well I hope the KC boys enjoy the one trip to Starbuck's per calendar quarter that their Spotify royalties will afford them...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    It makes me sad to read this.
    Me, as well.....
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    Why? I've had all the albums for time, both records and CD's. I can't play them on the bus in the morning! Ripping them to MP3s and putting them on the phone is a terrible faff. It's great!
    Pick yourself up a cheap digital audio player so you can play them full format. If you can listen to Spotify on the bus, you can listen to them on a DAP...or your iPhone for that matter as you can rip full format (using ALAC lossless compression) and it'll sound better than Spotify.

    Streaming services may be here to stay, but they are contributing (as has been discussed on many other threads over time) to the demise of musician as a supportable profession. Sure, Fripp and Crimson won't be adversely impacted, so going on Spotify is more an acceptance that it's better to be on it for fans who demand it, than to not. But with its terrible compensation model, supporting Spotify is supporting one of the reasons why so many musicians are struggling.

    Hey, it's legal, so I don't judge folks who use it. But all I can and will say is this: if you want to help the average musician retain a viable profession that can actually be a living, then don't support Spotify (or other streaming services. No, it won't stop the snowball from growing as it rolls down the hill, but at least you won't be part of it. I can't judge or criticize you if you choose not to..like I said, hey, it's completely legal and legit. But if one cares about the musicians whose music makes one's life even just a little bit better, then one has to support them. And sure, you may own Crimson albums...but how about all the other artists...many of them on a lower tier.. that you listen to?

    Just a question....and/or food for thought. No offence or disrespect intended, truly.
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    By touring? People have been taping/copying for years which makes the arguments against streaming weaker. I reckon most of the albums I bought as a teenager found their way onto 6-10 C90 cassettes that friends passed me and I only bought 1/10 of the albums I wanted
    Sure, but those cassette copies were not exact copies, as they became when it became possible to rip CDs. This is, I am sorry to say, a common excuse for justifying it. And it's not totally wrong...except that everything is different, and the big change happened, for the music industry, with Napster. Back in the pre-CD rip days, music sales were still strong, so clearly that didn't impact things the way file sharing and cd ripping did first...and now, even worse, with streaming services and the all-you-can-eat $9.99/month buffet.

    It all comes down to business models and artist compensation (and it's not just streaming, to be clear; there are many contributing factors to where we now are), which has been on a steady decline but has, I think, reached critical mass in recent years.

    And touring has never been more expensive than it is today. Sure, the big names make money, but the second tier artists and lower used to be able to..but no longer can. Hey when I was touring in the mid-'70s, our group made $3,500/week for a club date (5-6 nights), $1,500/night for a high school gig. Try finding local bands who can make that kind of money (let alone a 5-6 night club gig)...many things are contributing to where we are. For me, the only thing I can do to help is "vote with my wallet," buy music rather than stream (other than places like bandcamp, where it's part of buying an album, downloadable or hard media), and do anything I can to make sure as much of the money I pay out actually gets into the musicians' pockets.

    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    as lots of my friends liked the same kind of music. It's not new.
    It's not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    What we did do though, is go and watch those bands play, and bought the t shirts and the rest.

    I think this is a positive thing and will enhance their audience.
    Like I said....below top tier musicians, most don't make as much money at gigs as you think, though if you buy t-shirts and other merch, that definitely helps. But the gig itself? Many artists now are in the "pay to play" arena. You just don't necessarily know it.
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post
    In case anyone missed it, the announcement a couple months ago about KC on Spotify with David Singleton explaining their reasons:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...potify-818686/
    And he's right about reaching people. But it's sad that, in order to do so, they have to go with a model that will devalue their music.

    But this is not new. ECM went to Spotify last year, though I think their reason was different. Bottom line is: its here to stay. But that doesn't mean it's a good thing. It's more a "must do" thing now. And the people (musicians, management, etc) who try to position it as a positive? Well what else are they going to do...say "we've really been left with no choice"? No; of course they will put a positive spin in it. But follow Anil Prasad on Twitter/Facebook, as he often posts links to very good and very relevant articles on the subject of where we now are in the realm of music and the industry behind it.
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

  15. #15
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Pick yourself up a cheap digital audio player so you can play them full format. If you can listen to Spotify on the bus, you can listen to them on a DAP...or your iPhone for that matter as you can rip full format (using ALAC lossless compression) and it'll sound better than Spotify.
    I can't be bothered to do that (ripping). I rather use Spotify when commuting and listen to my CD's at home which I still buy over a hundred in year. I see this as a win-win situation for artists. They get my money from CD sales and also tiny tiny profit from Spotify listening as a bonus.
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I can't be bothered to do that (ripping). I rather use Spotify when commuting and listen to my CD's at home which I still buy over a hundred in year. I see this as a win-win situation for artists. They get my money from CD sales and also tiny tiny profit from Spotify listening as a bonus.
    Tiny profit?? Are u effin kidding me. How about not enough to buy a piece of pizza

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    Tiny profit?? Are u effin kidding me. How about not enough to buy a piece of pizza

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    Well it is more than from the people that JUST buy the CD's and rip them to their phones. Is it not?
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  18. #18
    LinkMan Chain's Avatar
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    The missing albums is a Spotify issue. They are onto it
    “Pleasure and pain can be experienced simultaneously,” she said, gently massaging my back as we listened to her Coldplay CD.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    The missing albums is a Spotify issue. They are onto it
    I'm sure they are. They want that $$$$$$$

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Member jarmsuh's Avatar
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    I can only have with Spotify some live albums and no studio albums

  21. #21
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    Tiny profit?? Are u effin kidding me. How about not enough to buy a piece of pizza
    Hey, I've made 35 cents on Spotify so far this year! Bye-bye day job!

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Well it is more than from the people that JUST buy the CD's and rip them to their phones. Is it not?
    No. First, copies for personal use are both legal ... and the folks who bought the CDs give the band far more money than your Spotify plays ever will. There's an article somewhere, can't recall where, that figures out how many streams must be played in order to make the same money as the sale of a single CD. It's ridiculous, and most groups would like never reach it.

    Also, frankly, my cellphone data plan isn't enough to do regular streaming (I don't want to spend the kind of money you must to be able to)...not to mention that streaming, at least with Spotify (or, for that matter, playing tracks ripped to my iPhone) don't sound particularly good to my ears...because they use a very cheap DAC. My DAP, OTOH, has a kickass DAC, so the music I play on it kicks ass.

    But that aside, if you think streaming music to your phone is, in some way, better for the musicians than folks who buy CDs and rip the audio to their phone or DAP? Sorry, man, but you're kidding yourself. It might be different if Spotify had a decent compensation model, but they don't...


    But to argue
    John Kelman
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Hey, I've made 35 cents on Spotify so far this year! Bye-bye day job!
    You're actually doing pretty well!
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I can't be bothered to do that (ripping). I rather use Spotify when commuting and listen to my CD's at home which I still buy over a hundred in year. I see this as a win-win situation for artists. They get my money from CD sales and also tiny tiny profit from Spotify listening as a bonus.
    Tiny is an exaggeration. Minuscule, Microscopic? Those would be more accurate.

    Also, you have to factor in that you're in the minority. Most Spotify users don't buy hard media ... in fact, and I read it on PE some time ago (and heard elsewhere too) that some people sell off their large collections of CDs for a major windfall, and then solely use Spotify (well, and YouTube, but that's another story). I seem to recall being told "I've given enough to the record companies on my lifetime," as if that's a justification for relying solely on a service whose compensation is really an insult to musicians.

    So, it's great, indeed, that you still do buy hard (or, for that matter, soft media like high res downloads) media....but, sad to say, you are in a very, very small minority.
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

  25. #25
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    No. First, copies for personal use are both legal ... and the folks who bought the CDs give the band far more money than your Spotify plays ever will.
    So you did not read the part where I told that I buy over 100 CD's per year? Spotify is only a bonus.

    God damn that this demonizing of Spotify is frustrating. Even if you use thousands and thousand of euros to music per year you are a bad person if you also use Spotify...
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

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