Got burned (pun intended) with an CD-R from Amazon

[Progatron]

I'd heard of this happening before, but first time for me. Ordered Third Plane by Carter/Hancock/Williams from Amazon Canada. $14.83. Nowhere in the product description was it listed as a CD-R. But it is, clear as day. Even the cover is cheap and uneven, like it was cut out with a pair of scissors. Complained to a customer "service" agent in India who used the standard copy-and-paste responses. I was essentially having a discussion with their instruction manual.

I could return it for a full refund, but that involves printing out a label (no printer anymore). So they've given me a 20% refund instead. What a pain in the ass, and VERY dishonest practice for them to send me this piece of junk, passing it off as a legitimate CD.

[rcarlberg]

Was it purchased from the Amazon warehouse, or a third-party vendor?

[Progatron]

Was it purchased from the Amazon warehouse, or a third-party vendor?

Amazon warehouse.

[Steve F.]

Usually, CDRS sold by Amazon give you clues.

See this
https://www.amazon.com/Tongues-Amy-D...s=music&sr=1-3

There is often (not always) an extra border in the artwork and it says

“When sold by Amazon.com, this product is manufactured on demand using CD-R recordable media. Amazon.com's standard return policy will apply.“

Was none of this true in your case? Got a link?

Ah. Never mind. You bought a OJC; I have heard reports that OJC has switched some of their catalog over to CDRs. No way to tell without opening and looking.

Yeah. This blows. This shouldn’t happen. But it does.

[Progatron]

Yeah. This blows. This shouldn’t happen. But it does.

It's ridiculous. I have seen the disclaimer listed on U.S. Amazon before, indicating it's a CD-R. Not the case here though - in fact, I've never seen that disclaimer on Amazon Canada before. This should absolutely be advertised as such.

Oh well. I'm out 11 bucks after my refund. It's not the end of the world, but I'm not happy that this is allowed to go on.

[rcarlberg]

Yeah, it should have been listed as a CD-R. But is that necessarily a bad thing (aside from the crappy artwork reproduction)?

CD-R's are projected to have a lifespan of 50-200 years.

Normal CDs can exhibit "CD rot" in as little as 20 years.

[Dave (in MA)]

I've read some claims that Amazon uses MP3 sources to make their CD-Rs. (No idea if this is true)

[JJ88]

This is not necessarily Amazon's fault. Steve has mentioned the OJC discs above; the controlling label Concord has been doing this for a while. A long thread here...

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...m-here.444883/

[Trane]

I got burned by Amazon Canada (not a seller on their site, but A.ca themselves), when acquiring the two Dilllinger albums released Unidisc.

1- I haven't got any complaint about their debut album sold at a reasonable 14.00$ (the album is OK, but lots of weaker stuff, short playing time and a stupid never-ending drum solo),
2- but somehow my order their musically -better second album (at the same price) got changed and became a 26.00$, but on top of that it clearly wasn't new as the back label (between the tray and the back spine of the jewel case) had been folded prior to being inserted between the plastic elements
3- not only did they jack-up the price by doubling the second album's price, but they certainly made no effort to diminish the shipping/postal cost by using DHL
4- delay: this took three months to arrive in my mail-box
5- the idiots didn't fill out the custom label correctly and the package was stopped by the customs and I got sucked into paying another 26.00 importing fee.
6- not happy about the course of things, I can't even return the shipment, because they didn't insert a return address sticker in the package, and there is no way to get in touch with them
7- I reviewed the albums fairly negatively , but mainly criticized Amabitch's handling of the whole shebang, and they mailed me (no-reply box of course) that my reviews were not acceptable so they were withdrawn.
8- basically for two (fairly average) Dillinger CDs, I got scammed of 66.00$ (CDN) and another 26.00€, and they're getting away with it, because it's not worth my while to try to find a return address and actually ship it back (at my cost, since there is no return sticker)

Fuck, I hate the GAFAs.


The weird thing is that I'd had no problem the previous month with ordering the Fiori/Harmonium thingie at a very decent price ( < 30.00€ for a double disc, shipping incl.) and it was mega-quick (less than 14 days)

[Steve F.]

I've read some claims that Amazon uses MP3 sources to make their CD-Rs. (No idea if this is true)

This is completely true (or it was completely true 5-6 years ago when I verified this - have they changed this policy? Dunno), but Amazon did NOT make this CD-R that the OP is discussing. Someone else did.

[Progatron]

Yeah, it should have been listed as a CD-R. But is that necessarily a bad thing (aside from the crappy artwork reproduction)?

CD-R's are projected to have a lifespan of 50-200 years.

Normal CDs can exhibit "CD rot" in as little as 20 years.

I have 3,000+ CDs, and over the course of 30 years of collecting, precisely one of them has succumbed to CD rot (Peter Hammill's The Fall Of The House Of Usher). On the other hand, I have burned discs (data, not audio) that have failed after 10 or so years. Make of that what you will, but either way it's a bad thing IMO. I would never have ordered it had I known it was a hack job. Just a personal preference, but I don't want CD-Rs, I want CDs.

This is not necessarily Amazon's fault. Steve has mentioned the OJC discs above; the controlling label Concord has been doing this for a while. A long thread here...

This is completely true (or it was completely true 5-6 years ago when I verified this - have they changed this policy? Dunno), but Amazon did NOT make this CD-R that the OP is discussing. Someone else did.

I did not realize that labels were doing this. I now know to steer clear of that one especially! As for the mp3 source, I don't think that's the case with this one, it does sound quite good in my system, so I can't complain about that. But Amazon is indeed at fault, somewhat at least. They are selling burned CD-Rs as proper CDs, it's up to them to know what they are selling. I read the fine print, and was still duped.

Thanks for the links guys, I will check them out now.

[Steve F.]

They are selling burned CD-Rs as proper CDs, it's up to them to know what they are selling. I read the fine print, and was still duped.

in fairness to Amazon
I feel quite certain Concord doesn't tell Amazon that certain things are or are not CDRs. I know we get CDRs sometimes and are not told.

Additionally, Amazon doesn't know shit about anything they sell in terms of recorded music. So, why would you expect this to be different?

[Progatron]

in fairness to Amazon
I feel quite certain Concord doesn't tell Amazon that certain things are or are not CDRs. I know we get CDRs sometimes and are not told.

Additionally, Amazon doesn't know shit about anything they sell in terms of recorded music. So, why would you expect this to be different?

Right, but when you see that you've received CD-Rs, and still sell them, you list them as such, do you not?

For their part, Amazon did offer a full rebate including the shipping - so they have been fair about it. I just didn't bother as it wasn't an expensive enough item, I'll just take the small hit.

Lesson learned, I shall be more wary of these things.

[Steve F.]

Right, but when you see that you've received CD-Rs, and still sell them, you list them as such, do you not?

I send them back because people don't want them, but point taken.

Again, Amazon doesn't care about anything they sell in recorded music. They'll just take them back and that's that to them. That's my point.

[thedunno]

I have 3,000+ CDs, and over the course of 30 years of collecting, precisely one of them has succumbed to CD rot (Peter Hammill's The Fall Of The House Of Usher).

Thats the only one in my collection as well! The original version that is. The rearranged version , released a couple of years later, is still fine and is far superior.

[GuitarGeek]

Right, but when you see that you've received CD-Rs, and still sell them, you list them as such, do you not?

And how they're supposed to make sure that happens? You want them to have someone whose job it is to examine that every CD that comes into the store to make sure that it is, in fact, a CD? And if they find something that is a CD-R, how are they supposed to relay that to the IT people, or whoever it is who is in charge of putting stuff up on the website, that they have to change a product description the website?

It may not seem like much, but you're asking a lot out of a corporation.

For their part, Amazon did offer a full rebate including the shipping - so they have been fair about it. I just didn't bother as it wasn't an expensive enough item, I'll just take the small hit.

I'd have taken the rebate. Maybe you're wealthier than I am, but no amount of money is too small if I feel like I've been frelled with by "The Man".

[Steve F.]

but no amount of money is too small if I feel like I've been frelled with by "The Man".

note to newbies: Chris often feels frelled by 'The Man'.....

[Progatron]

Thats the only one in my collection as well! The original version that is. The rearranged version , released a couple of years later, is still fine and is far superior.

That's right! Bought it when it came out, and several years ago noticed it had gone all bronze and unplayable.

It may not seem like much, but you're asking a lot out of a corporation.

Here, let me take a minute out of my 40+ hour work week to play a sorrowful violin tune for the richest man on earth because I dare suggest his company exhibits quality control and honest advertising.

[JJ88]

I did not realize that labels were doing this. I now know to steer clear of that one especially!.

Absolutely- I won't touch anything by Concord on principle. They are not saying that they are pressing many of their products on CD-R; consumers are the guinea pigs. This apparently now includes releases on the famous label Stax (read through the later pages of the thread I linked to).

[Progatron]

Absolutely- I won't touch anything by Concord on principle. They are not saying that they are pressing many of their products on CD-R; consumers are the guinea pigs. This apparently now includes releases on the famous label Stax (read through the later pages of the thread I linked to).

Reading that enormous thread right now, thanks for that, it's most interesting to me! And angering too.

[JJ88]

I guess it's felt that they 'got away with it' so are standardising this. Very sad.

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...#post-21126404

[Progatron]

I guess it's felt that they 'got away with it' so are standardising this. Very sad.

Agreed, and as I said it's a learning experience. I will be vigilant with this stuff in the future. I shouldn't have to be, but I will be.

[rcarlberg]

As for the mp3 source, I don't think that's the case with this one, it does sound quite good in my system, so I can't complain about that.

And Amazon offered to issue you a full refund including shipping.

i think you're being a bit of a dick about this, to be honest. A CD-R will last as long as, or longer, than a CD. And it's a bit-perfect copy, so it sounds EXACTLY as good as the CD. You bought the album for the music, right?

You're getting all huffy over nothing. In my opinion.

[Progatron]

And Amazon offered to issue you a full refund including shipping.

Yes, which I mentioned in order to be fair.

i think you're being a bit of a dick about this.

Oh, do you? To who, exactly?

A CD-R will last as long as, or longer, than a CD. And it's a bit-perfect copy, so it sounds EXACTLY as good as the CD.

I believe I also mentioned my own personal track record with CDs and CD-Rs, with multiple CD-Rs failing, and one CD in over 3,000 failing in 30 years... I'm guessing that's unimportant to you though.

You're getting all huffy over nothing. In my opinion.

Your opinion has been noted and will be considered. My opinion is that this is not nothing - in case that wasn't obvious.

[Gruno]

edited .

I didn't get that at all from his comments.