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Thread: In The Court Of King Crimson

  1. #126
    I've never had the slightest trouble with connecting with either Lizard or Islands. Sure, they sounded weird, but progressive rock was supposed to sound weird in the first place. Exactly for this reason I have played borh albums to death.

    And Formentera Lady is possibly the best song our Prog-Saint has ever written.

  2. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    re: Ladies Of The Road



    No, it's that:

    1. it's not a very good song to begin with, regardless of the lyrics. There's nothing remarkable at all about the song, in terms of the melody, the refrain, the lyrics, etc. It's just sounds like they were short a song, so they threw that together.
    "Ladies of the Road" seems to be the only Lizard or Islands era song with lyrics that Fripp likes, judging from the comments I've read from him (and that it was the only song from that time he included on the Young Person's Guide double album).

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by pb2015 View Post
    "Ladies of the Road" seems to be the only Lizard or Islands era song with lyrics that Fripp likes, judging from the comments I've read from him (and that it was the only song from that time he included on the Young Person's Guide double album).
    That was his opinion at the time, but I'm not sure it still holds. Indeed, three other tracks from this album have been performed on the last tours but not that one. It was, if I recall correctly, the only song on "Islands" that Fripp and Sinfield BOTH liked, so perhaps that played a role. I don't think the song is without merit, aside from its vulgarity (which one may or may not enjoy), it's an oblique reinvention of the blues with an interesting polyrhythmic concept, and it was probably a song that everyone in the band enjoyed playing (considering that the other three went on to work with Alexis Korner for a while). The Beatles-like chorus is an interesting contrast. Ultimately, though, I've heard that song enough times, on all the 1971-72 boots, that I'd rather the current band didn't play it.
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  4. #129
    Member bigjohnwayne's Avatar
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    Ladies of the Road appeared on nearly every King Crimson compilation.

    -Young Person's Guide (mid 70s)
    -Frame by Frame Box, and the abridgment of it, Sleepless (early 90s)
    -Live versions of it appear both on Cirkus: A young Person's Guide to King Crimson Live, and A beginners Guide to the King Crimson Collector's Club (turn of the millennium)
    -21st Century Guide to King Crimson box and the abridgment of it (early 00s)


    I wonder how Fripp's choices for a compilation have changed. Lizard, the Islands group, and the Construkction of Light have to varying degrees been reassessed critically since the early 00s. (On the 21st Century Guide, if I remember right, there was nothing from Construkction of Light, except some live renditions on the last disc, while there was a ton of Power to Believe stuff.)

  5. #130
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=GuitarGeek;912561]Well, that's possibly even worse. The album is viewed as a failure. There's basically no band because the drummer and bassist have dropped out, so you can't even do any live work. For a lot of people, that might have been a very discouraging time. It's amazing to me that Fripp was able to repeatedly pull things back together during that time, where a lot of people might have said "Well, that's it, then, isn't it?" after each lineup crumbled.[/QUOTE

    Well, f Lizard sold better in the UK than Islands, it's their worst selling70's-album in the US (didn't make the billboard 100 - 106 according to the Uncut special issue -, whereas all the other did)

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    2. It's a song about groupies. I somehow feel like that doesn't belong in art rock. I can sort of see the point that maybe Sinfield was trying to push outside the bounds of what he had done up to that point, but he should have filed it away and saved it for Bucks Fizz or Celine Dion or someone like that.

    When I want to listen to someone singing about groupies, sex, etc, I'll put on a Kiss record. I'll take Plaster Caster over Ladies Of The Road any day of the week.
    Well Easy Money celebrates groupies as well.
    TBH, I was surprised his Frippness gave two separate interviews insisting on the groupies subject...
    You can easily guess that the weekly Brutish musical press made headlines out of the chunkier bits ...

    And one can wonder how Toyah is reacting when reading the Uncut special issue when her Bobness is quoted (in intermediate headlines) as saying : I wonder if any one woman can ever satisfy me (I don't have the precise wording ... left the mag at home)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigjohnwayne View Post
    Ladies of the Road sounds so cartoonish and over the top that it almost seems to be satirizing, rather than celebrating groupie culture. Well, the lyrics, sax, and the guitar seems to be satirizing it. The rest seems to be celebrating it.
    Yeah, one could see it as Crimson's Counting Out Time

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    One of the leading lights of UK art-rock at the time, Family, were of course infamous for their outlook on and mingling with the phenomenon. There are almost similar stories from Arthur Brown's Kingdom Come, Traffic, Strawbs, Man, Hawkwind and other "progressively" minded combos.
    yup, can't see why prog groups couldn't address the ladies a few songs... One could argue that it could've been more subtle, but maybe the groupies wouldn't have understood it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    And Formentera Lady is possibly the best song our Prog-Saint has ever written.
    well certainly his Saint Fripness doesn't think so.... which is why this current thread exists (read the OP).

    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    That was his opinion at the time, but I'm not sure it still holds. Indeed, three other tracks from this album have been performed on the last tours but not that one. It was, if I recall correctly, the only song on "Islands" that Fripp and Sinfield BOTH liked, so perhaps that played a role. I don't think the song is without merit, aside from its vulgarity (which one may or may not enjoy), it's an oblique reinvention of the blues with an interesting polyrhythmic concept, and it was probably a song that everyone in the band enjoyed playing (considering that the other three went on to work with Alexis Korner for a while). The Beatles-like chorus is an interesting contrast. Ultimately, though, I've heard that song enough times, on all the 1971-72 boots, that I'd rather the current band didn't play it.
    1- yes, I noticed the Beatlesque chorus last Monday... had never really noticed it before.
    2- How long did the three go on to work with AK and is there a recorded trace of this?
    3- I could live without ever hearing LotR (not Lord of the Rings ) ever again
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  6. #131
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    I love the energy on ‘Earthbound’ and am familiar enough with most of the songs to be able to listen above the low-fi recordings. But why was ‘Earthbound’ released with such a murky sound? I know that the concerts on the 1972 tour – with Fripp, Wallace, Burrell and Collins – were recorded on cassette tapes and that Sinfield was no longer looking after the recording. But what was the intention of releasing an album that was likely to annoy as many people as it did? Was it a contractual obligation record? Did Fripp set out to make an ‘official bootleg’ or did he not care about the quality? Did he go for the energy of the songs rather than the quality of the recording (after all, the hi-fi Summit Studio session was recorded on this tour)? The sound quality on ‘Earthbound’ just doesn’t make sense to me. The 1971 tour – with the exact same musicians playing on it as on ‘Earthbound’ – resulted in some excellent recordings (Plymouth, the Marquee and Detroit). So why were they not used? The sound quality and track listings found on the ‘Ladies of the Road’ CD could just as easily have been on ‘Earthbound’, and in fact some of the Summit Studio tracks were used on ‘Ladies’. It’s a perfect mystery.

  7. #132
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munster View Post
    The sound quality on ‘Earthbound’ just doesn’t make sense to me.
    I just read the book and I can't really remember exactly the reasoning. I'm not even certain that RF knew the reasoning.

    I always just sorta supposed it was his dismissive 'fuck you' to the band.
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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

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    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  8. #133
    Member bigjohnwayne's Avatar
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    34b0pi.jpg

    Oh my goodness the image is tiny.

    But if you click on it, you will see the stages of loving Earthbound.
    Last edited by bigjohnwayne; 07-03-2019 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Saw the image was absurdly tiny.

  9. #134
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^ ^

    now that was funny!
    Steve F.

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  10. #135
    Didn't we have a sort of 'discussion' on Earthbound rather recently?

    Yeah, the "production values" surely suck and the song selection and performance aren't too much to homage either. Yet I would never part with it, bought as I did for 6$ back in '93 and played to overwhelming laughs at bachelor/student/dorm-prog gatherings over beer and molten spinach.

    That cat's scat in "Peoria" always serves to quickly silence any evilminded allegations of showoff-elitism on the part of this specific crew, that's for certain.
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  11. #136
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    That cat's scat in "Peoria" always serves to quickly silence any evilminded allegations of showoff-elitism on the part of this specific crew, that's for certain.
    I'd forgotten Boz's scat. 'Thanks' for reminding me.

    To quote Robert, "It sucks."
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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  12. #137
    I was gonna put up a lengthy post about Earthbound, but I got half way through it and decided to 86 it. I haven't read any of the books or articles that have been written in recent years (by "recent", I mean in the last couple decades). I don't have The Sailor's Tale box (yet), so any info that might be contained in the liner notes there, I haven't seen.

    I do know I had a theory once that hinged on Earthbound being a contractual obligation, but I believe I was disabused of that belief sometime back. So the whys and what-fors of Earthbound's release, in terms of content, etc are beyond me. I don't know why they passed over the Detroit recording from the previous autumn or the Summit Studios recording in favor of inferior sounding tapes.

    I will say maybe there was some kind of legal language in the Summit Studios contract keeping the band from being able to use it on a live album at the time. That's the only speculation I'm gonna do on that topic at the moment.

    Beyond that, I'll only reiterate my opinion that Earthbound is worth owning, if for no other reason, than that guitar solo Fripp plays at the end of side two. I think that's one of the most amazing things he's ever played, so far as improv playing goes.

    I remember there being talk somewhere that Fripp apparently felt that the Islands lineup weren't well suited to performing material off the first three albums. Maybe that's why Schizoid Man wsa the only song from any of those records to be included (perhaps because it was "the hit", so it had to be included on any theoretical live album). But after hearing the Jacksonville and Detroit CC releases, I feel that Fripp was very much mistaken on that count. I think Earthbound could have been a decent double LP if Fripp had been inclined to use some of the music that was played on that tour.

    BTW, I find it amusing that Earthbound, apparently includes three different versions of a single piece. Or at least, there's two excerpts of versions of the piece. I believe I read on the DGM site that Earthbound itself and Peoria are both excerpted from versions of Groon! I find that fascinating that he could pull that off, somehow.

  13. #138
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    BTW, I find it amusing that Earthbound, apparently includes three different versions of a single piece. Or at least, there's two excerpts of versions of the piece. I believe I read on the DGM site that Earthbound itself and Peoria are both excerpted from versions of Groon! I find that fascinating that he could pull that off, somehow.
    "Peoria" is indeed edited from a version of "Groon," but "Earthbound" was a stand-alone encore jam.
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