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Thread: King Crimson - Heaven & Earth Boxset

  1. #76
    I'm still waiting for mine to arrive at Barnes And Noble's warehouse to be shipped to me.[latest estimate 3-5 weeks].....latest update the order was cancelled because the supplier couldn't supply it.
    Last edited by hwkn; 06-26-2019 at 07:16 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Repercussions is great! Hopefully it get now new appreciative audience as it seems it has been kind of overlooked in the past.
    Repercussions...is great. While never given a projeKct # or letter, the liner notes always considered it a pseudo projeKct and Its my 2nd fave behind P4.
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  3. #78
    Finally started to explore this box (spent a week with the new TD box first). Went straight in with ReconstruKction. Wow...that's remarkable. I mean, if I didn't know better I'd swear the original double duo went back and recorded a fresh version of the album together.

    The original is near/dear to me, so it's hard to say if I like this version as much; I know just about every note and nuance by heart so the transformation is a bit jarring at times. There are a few spots where I personally disagree with the mixing choices that were made (I think too much of Fripp's heavy guitar was pushed into the background on Into the Frying Pan, for example), but that has as much to do with my ears expecting the original mix as anything. I'm having a hard time with FraKctured and Larks IV especially...there are a few specific fills and textures that my ears keep expecting.

    That said...I'm just absolutely impressed. To my ears, this might be one of the best "band goes back and redoes parts of an old recording" use cases I've ever heard. It doesn't feel like some Frankenstein creation as too many of these do...it feels fresh and cohesive and intentional.

    Some of the transitions are better; I really like the segue from ProzaKc into the title track. Ultimately, I could see a few of the tunes ending up my preferred versions over the originals.

    Oh, I don't think they re-recorded the drums on the ProjeKct X bonus track, but it still sounds remixed and cleaner and that's terrific too.

    Not sure if this will make sense or not, but anyone who has preferred the current KC lineup and sound over the "cyborg guitar" feel of the Double Duo might consider giving this a shot. It feels like the songs of TCoL but somehow reimagined through the sonic/arrangement perspective of the current band.

    Great work
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  4. #79
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MudShark22 View Post
    Repercussions...is great. While never given a projeKct # or letter, the liner notes always considered it a pseudo projeKct and Its my 2nd fave behind P4.
    IIRC my copy doesn't have any liner notes, just the artwork. I didn't even know the track names until I put the CD into my laptop and let wmplayer pull up a tracklist.

  5. #80
    I ended up ordering the cd/dvd-a sets instead of reordering the box elsewhere and paying through the nose for it.

  6. #81
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    Finally started to explore this box (spent a week with the new TD box first). Went straight in with ReconstruKction. Wow...that's remarkable. I mean, if I didn't know better I'd swear the original double duo went back and recorded a fresh version of the album together.

    The original is near/dear to me, so it's hard to say if I like this version as much; I know just about every note and nuance by heart so the transformation is a bit jarring at times. There are a few spots where I personally disagree with the mixing choices that were made (I think too much of Fripp's heavy guitar was pushed into the background on Into the Frying Pan, for example), but that has as much to do with my ears expecting the original mix as anything. I'm having a hard time with FraKctured and Larks IV especially...there are a few specific fills and textures that my ears keep expecting.

    That said...I'm just absolutely impressed. To my ears, this might be one of the best "band goes back and redoes parts of an old recording" use cases I've ever heard. It doesn't feel like some Frankenstein creation as too many of these do...it feels fresh and cohesive and intentional.

    Some of the transitions are better; I really like the segue from ProzaKc into the title track. Ultimately, I could see a few of the tunes ending up my preferred versions over the originals.

    Oh, I don't think they re-recorded the drums on the ProjeKct X bonus track, but it still sounds remixed and cleaner and that's terrific too.

    Not sure if this will make sense or not, but anyone who has preferred the current KC lineup and sound over the "cyborg guitar" feel of the Double Duo might consider giving this a shot. It feels like the songs of TCoL but somehow reimagined through the sonic/arrangement perspective of the current band.

    Great work
    I don't have the box yet, so I've only heard the FraKctured they released as part of the 50th anniversary series, so my comments only pertain to that song. But I wasn't as convinced as you. I suppose it could be expectations, but I don't think so at this point in the game. That intensity and bite and 'industrial takeover of the world' feel that the "cyborg guitar" band brought was the double duos greatest strength to me. And the way it's mixed now lessens that a bit. Dare I say that the drums are now too prominent in the mix, pushing the guitars too far into the background? I don't feel like I'm being as pummeled or I'm listening to something as foreign as I do when I hear the original. I don't dislike it, but it's not as effective as the original, IMO.

    Also, I feel like I have to add this disclaimer, obviously this isn't going to deter me from getting the set, and I'm sure I'll still enjoy TROL as a whole, and will certainly revisit the position when I finally get a chance to hear the full album.
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  7. #82
    Just for clarifying...I'm impressed as hell with how cohesive the new mix feels and certainly understand/appreciate Mastelotto's issues with the original, but on the whole I still prefer the 2000 mix.

    ProzaKc Blues and the title track work well, maybe even slightly better than the original. FraKctured, Larks' IV, Into the Frying Pan...I much prefer the original mixes. I'm neutral on Oyster and Heaven & Earth.

    There's room for both at Chez Batts So, I'm glad this exists.
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  8. #83
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    Still in the shrink wrap, just wont open unless i can spend a couple of hours with it...
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    Just for clarifying...I'm impressed as hell with how cohesive the new mix feels and certainly understand/appreciate Mastelotto's issues with the original, but on the whole I still prefer the 2000 mix.

    ProzaKc Blues and the title track work well, maybe even slightly better than the original. FraKctured, Larks' IV, Into the Frying Pan...I much prefer the original mixes. I'm neutral on Oyster and Heaven & Earth.

    There's room for both at Chez Batts So, I'm glad this exists.

    I didn't get the box set and am waiting for the Reconstrukction, but your little review makes me excited. I'm in love with the title track of this and am eager to hear the new version if you suspect it might be as good.

    Construkction was the last of their studio albums I "got", but I like it more than more than a couple of their records. I think its production issues are real, but certainly not as bad as people say. And its not like the production weirdness was unintentional--I think they accomplished what they were trying for. The album is so very unique that it is not dated. As fussy as the production is, I'd say its amazingly un-dated. It remains to be seen whether we'll be able to say the same about the new version in twenty years!

  10. #85
    I, for one, welcome our new ReconstruKction overlords!

    I HATED the original sound, it felt stifled and dull. I exclusively listened to live versions of the songs on this album... until now. It sounds so fresh and dynamic to me and I've already deleted the old version from my itunes library, hopefully to never hear again. Pat did a great job on this, it seems like he took everything he learned about playing this music live over the years and put it into this mix. ++good!

    There's a lot of great music to go through in this box set. I'm focusing on the "live construkction" discs at the moment, really digging the improv pieces.

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000jw View Post
    Bit late in the day John, but thank you for this, which I read from beginning to end during a lengthy train journey last week. As ever, your careful assessment of the strengths and weaknesses is closely argued and wide-ranging in its reference, but what I thought raised this piece to a still higher level was the quotes from interviews you'd done to supplement the review. These gave invaluable background, particularly to the way in which the drum tracks on The ReConstruKction Of Light were assembled. A characteristically enlightening piece of work - many thanks once again.
    My pleasure! Thank YOU for taking the time to read it all. Yeah, I started and exchange with Pat as I thought we all (myself included) needed to know what went into reconstruKcting the ReConstruKction of Light..glad you agreed. I was just grateful for Pat's generosity.
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  12. #87
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Update on the BluRay fiasco:

    https://www.dgmlive.com/news/heaven-...nd-dvda-issues

    And some intrepid Stevehoffman denizen discovered the following set up for sale:

    https://www.dgmlive.com/albums/the-r...o-from-box-set

  13. #88
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    And some intrepid Stevehoffman denizen discovered the following set up for sale:

    https://www.dgmlive.com/albums/the-r...o-from-box-set
    This page seems to be gone (404 Oops... )

    Thanks for the update from DGM! How were we supposed to know about this though? Were only people who bought it through DGM emailed the link to that page? I don't think I received an email, despite being on their email list.

  14. #89
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    This page seems to be gone (404 Oops... )

    Thanks for the update from DGM! How were we supposed to know about this though? Were only people who bought it through DGM emailed the link to that page? I don't think I received an email, despite being on their email list.
    Here's the Google cache:
    https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us

    AFAIK the only way you would have noticed was to go to dgmlive or to read a post about it, like I did.

  15. #90
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Scratch that; the Google cached page is an early draft, I think.

  16. #91
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    sorry if I'm a little slow....which discs are affected? And which tracks..all of them? If I read the DGM notice correctly then it sounds like the pitch is off?

  17. #92
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progfan915 View Post
    sorry if I'm a little slow....which discs are affected? And which tracks..all of them? If I read the DGM notice correctly then it sounds like the pitch is off?
    And it's hard to tell if they intend to send people replacement disks, or are just providing downloads of the corrected audio (which wouldn't be such a great solution IMO.

  18. #93
    They do not intend to send replacement discs.

    The seriously f'd up thing about this is that (based on the cached page) they apparently intend to charge for the replacement audio - when people have already spent big $ on the box.
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  19. #94
    I bought the box and have listened to a fair amount (not all) of it. Could just be me but I don't notice any audio problems. I believe the statement indicated that would be the case for most listeners, but being fully transparent they wanted it out there. Anyway, I'm more than happy with mine.
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  20. #95
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    The seriously f'd up thing about this is that (based on the cached page) they apparently intend to charge for the replacement audio - when people have already spent big $ on the box.
    I would wait until an official announcement is made before accusing DGM of such a dickish move. That cached page that people are linking to was probably only a test; it appears to contain only the ProjeKct Two Space Groove album. They did previously announce that there would be a free download of all the affected material from the blu-ray.
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  21. #96
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progfan915 View Post
    sorry if I'm a little slow....which discs are affected? And which tracks..all of them? If I read the DGM notice correctly then it sounds like the pitch is off?
    I'm not clear on this either. Don't the Blu-Rays and DVD-As contain contents that need to be on Blu-Ray and DVD-A format disks in order to listen to them? Are they expecting us to all be able to either burn those types of disks, or to be able to stream that material to our stereos? Is there video content on any of those disks? Help, Mommy...

  22. #97
    This kind of outlines what was affected:

    https://www.dgmlive.com/news/Heaven_and_earth

    Since no video and no special surround sound mixes, technically they could upload all the impacted/corrected audio content as either FLAC or mp3 files depending on preference, and folks could retrieve as they wish.

    Given that many of us probably took the Blu Ray / DVD Audio and ripped it for listening anyway...kind of saving us one step overall
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  23. #98
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    This kind of outlines what was affected:

    https://www.dgmlive.com/news/Heaven_and_earth

    Since no video and no special surround sound mixes, technically they could upload all the impacted/corrected audio content as either FLAC or mp3 files depending on preference, and folks could retrieve as they wish.

    Given that many of us probably took the Blu Ray / DVD Audio and ripped it for listening anyway...kind of saving us one step overall
    And at least the ProjeKcts Box and Space Groove sets are things many of us already have on CD anyway--that's why they weren't originally planned for inclusion at all.
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  24. #99
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    This kind of outlines what was affected:

    https://www.dgmlive.com/news/Heaven_and_earth

    Since no video and no special surround sound mixes, technically they could upload all the impacted/corrected audio content as either FLAC or mp3 files depending on preference, and folks could retrieve as they wish.

    Given that many of us probably took the Blu Ray / DVD Audio and ripped it for listening anyway...kind of saving us one step overall
    But what I'd like to know is this: the material that's on a Blu-Ray must have been on a Blu-Ray for a reason. Since they're normal audio files I assume it's because of the quantity of material (that is, the number of concerts). Since many of us don't have the capability to burn Blu-Ray disks (I don't, anyway) what are they expecting us to do with the downloads? Since I have all the rest of the set on disks in the box, it would make sense that the corrected material needs to be on disks as well so that we can listen to it on the same device on which the rest of the set would be played (in my case, a Blu-Ray player).

    Also, is all the corrected material going to be in one large file, or at least only a few large files? They can't be expecting us to download each concert individually, or something like that, right? I just have little patience for downloading and extracting files these days, so the less the better.

    Best case scenario: the original disks in the box sound fine to me and I don't need to deal with the downloads.

    This is from Singleton's post linked above:

    It is both a blessing and a curse to work in an industry where fans expect “faults” to be corrected (even where this makes the project that they support financially infeasible). No book publisher would send you a free eBook because there was a typo in your hardcopy (as there always will be). Nor will a film-maker send you a new edit of a movie because there was a continuity or other error (as there often will be).

    I'm not sure either of these is really a good analogy. I do think DGM is trying to resolve this in the best way possible, and it's nice that they're sort of cutting the manufacturer some slack, so I'm not just criticizing DGM. Just wondering how the corrected material is going to work for us. I'm not one who rips all the disks I buy, so it could be pretty inconvenient to figure out a way to listen to the corrected material without receiving it on disk.
    Last edited by JKL2000; 08-23-2019 at 03:49 PM.

  25. #100
    I do hope they'll offer the alternative of a replacement Blu-Ray disk for those who aren't willing (or able) to download such a large quantity of content. But since this is likely to be the vast majority, the expense involved might want to make them stick to a download-only option.

    A difference in sampling rate between 44.1 and 48 is NOT insignificant. That's a good half-tone up (or down). Not quite turning Richard Sinclair into a Northette, to use my favourite Hatfield and the North analogy, but definitely noticeable...
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