New Robert Fripp/King Crimson dialog/Q&A on Innerviews

[Innerviews]

Hey everyone,

It's been a minute.

I was lucky enough to attend Robert Fripp's nine-hour King Crimson event in London a couple of weeks ago.

It included a four-hour dialog with Robert. You can read my feature on the proceedings over on Innerviews. It offers entertaining, informative and fascinating insight into Robert's worldview across the band's storied and complex history. Jakko Jakszyk and Sid Smith make guest appearances.

You can read it here: https://www.innerviews.org/inner/king-crimson

[arturs]

A good read. For much of my life KC was one of my favorite bands. Not anymore, but that is just a natural progression--probably the result of decades of overexposure. But Robert Fripp remains an interesting individual whose words and ideas are always worthy of consideration. A lot of times he's full of baloney or just misses the mark, but every so often he comes up with an insight that has at least in a small way changed my life. I'm not sure how many other musicians I can say that about.

[SunshipVoyager1976]

Hey everyone,

It's been a minute.

I was lucky enough to attend Robert Fripp's nine-hour King Crimson event in London a couple of weeks ago.

It included a four-hour dialog with Robert. You can read my feature on the proceedings over on Innerviews. It offers entertaining, informative and fascinating insight into Robert's worldview across the band's storied and complex history. Jakko Jakszyk and Sid Smith make guest appearances.

You can read it here: https://www.innerviews.org/inner/king-crimson

Very nicely presented, great detail. More in-depth than the Rolling Stone article, clarifies some things people were talking about in the thread on that article.

[The Crimson King]

Robert Fripp said:

"This is the first King Crimson where Robert's role in King Crimson has been accepted. This is also the first King Crimson where there is not at least one person in the band who resents Robert's presence."

Whom is he talking about? My guesses:

- Original band: Ian McDonald. Michael Giles?
- Poseidon band: Peter Giles?
- Lizard band: Gordon Haskell
- Islands band: Boz Burrell
- Larks-Starless-Red band: David Cross? Bill Bruford?
- 80s band: Adrian Belew. Bill Bruford?
- 90s band: Adrian Belew. Bill Bruford?
- 2000s band: Adrian Belew. Trey Gunn?

Maybe Robert doesn't appreciate the creative tension that such "resentment" (aka "disagreement") causes can lead to good new music being produced. The current band may be free of this tension, but it does not seem capable of producing new music of the same quality as the previous versions of KC.

[Haruspex Carnage]

to new music not being on par.

[bondegezou]

A good read. For much of my life KC was one of my favorite bands. Not anymore, but that is just a natural progression--probably the result of decades of overexposure. But Robert Fripp remains an interesting individual whose words and ideas are always worthy of consideration. A lot of times he's full of baloney or just misses the mark, but every so often he comes up with an insight that has at least in a small way changed my life. I'm not sure how many other musicians I can say that about.

It's a good article, as Anil always delivers. But I find I just can't stomach wading through Fripp's self-serving jibber-jabber. All this Crimson is a way of doing things stuff... Crimson is a brand name that sells tickets so Fripp can go on tour. It was very convenient that he had the idea that the band he'd started as Discipline should re-brand itself as King Crimson. It was very convenient that after limited sales for Jakszyk, Fripp and Collins that Fripp should realise there needs to be a new King Crimson with the same people in it. He's playing to a nostalgic audience base by giving them a known quantity, because he can't sell enough using another name. I don't mind '70s bands playing to a nostalgic audience base by giving them a known quantity. It's just I can only roll my eyes so many times before giving myself a headache.

Henry

[bondegezou]

Maybe Robert doesn't appreciate the creative tension that such "resentment" (aka "disagreement") causes can lead to good new music being produced. The current band may be free of this tension, but it does not seem capable of producing new music of the same quality as the previous versions of KC.

My Crimson history isn't good enough to join in your speculation, but the right level of creative tension does seem to play an important role in many band's creativity... but also remember that too much tension becomes counter-productive.

Henry

[zeprogmeister]

"This is the first King Crimson where Robert's role in King Crimson has been accepted."

Not sure I understand that, since he was the leader of the band after the first album.

[Steve F.]

...But I find I just can't stomach wading through Fripp's self-serving jibber-jabber....

QFT

Crimson is a brand name that sells tickets so Fripp can go on tour. It was very convenient that he had the idea that the band he'd started as Discipline should re-brand itself as King Crimson. It was very convenient that after limited sales for Jakszyk, Fripp and Collins that Fripp should realise there needs to be a new King Crimson with the same people in it. He's playing to a nostalgic audience base by giving them a known quantity, because he can't sell enough using another name.

Do you think he actually truly believes what he states in these sorts of interviews? I tend to think actually he does, even though its pretty silly, and very self-serving as you point out.

Maybe its a way to self-justify it, without feeling commercially 'crass'.

Anyway, the new KC is very good and RF is very smart guy and also pretty silly.

[Buddhabreath]

Resents Robert's presence? Maybe becauase Bobbie Boy is the boss and makes that clear? Well for better or worse he's earned the right to call whatever group he wants to "King Crimson" and be silly in the process IMO. Regardless, from what I witnessed it was one great band, just wish there was room for good old Adrian (and so does he).

[eadric]

Thanks for the comprehensive write-up. Fripp's a bright, interesting character, but I do find the whole 'KC isn't all about me/this is the first band that doesn't resent Robert' shtick rather hard to take, especially given his thoughts on offshoots ('it's just not King Crimson!'). If RF gets up there, slams his fist on the desk and says there's no KC without me in it, he's earned that right - but it doesn't resemble any kind of democracy from my reading of it.

As an aside, and this might just be my semi-casual KC fandom speaking - I don't think any of the live stuff I've heard has done much for me, they're solidly a studio band. I can't tell if I'm just vastly out of touch with the fanbase and Fripp himself, or I just have to Be There to get it. Are they considered a stronger live band than studio?

[Paulrus]

My takeaway from that interview: Robert Fripp loves lists.

But that closing stuff about John Wetton... wow.

[arturs]

Where I give Fripp credit is that he is the rare musician who I think is really interested in trying to articulate the creative process and the meaning of music for fans. Who else does that? His ex-bandmate Bill B. is one example but other than the two of them very few. Yes it is often trying, sometimes silly and self-serving. But I have learned from it.

[wilcox660]

Anil neglected to include Robert's 17 point stance on ordering decent coffee.

[Mascodagama]

Anil neglected to include Robert's 17 point stance on ordering decent coffee.

Yeah, I got about half way through that wall of pseudo-intellectual guff before giving up in sheer bemusement.

[Jacob Holm-Lupo]

Godallmighty I get depressed reading interviews with Fripp. He's very close to turning me completely off his band these days. Some musicians are better off shutting up and playing their guitar ...

[helix]

people really can't handle a musician who has managed to take control of their art, career and also try to explain what they do.

pretension is a good trait when it can illustrate the insular mind in combo with the outside presentation of said mind. it's not easy as shown with many Fripp salvos



I guess a mere "ramallamma" does some people just fine . . . offer up some pseudo new age jibber jabber, tell the same fucking rock and roll personality stories again, flop on to the next grift, play the hits, rinse and repeat and toke

[Kcrimso]

Progressive rock fans does not seem to appreciate intelligence from their favourite musicians...

[jamesmanzi]

"This is the first King Crimson where Robert's role in King Crimson has been accepted."

Not sure I understand that, since he was the leader of the band after the first album.

Yes, and for the first time the entire band accepts him as the leader. That's the point.

[NogbadTheBad]

It's a good article, as Anil always delivers. But I find I just can't stomach wading through Fripp's self-serving jibber-jabber...

Henry

QFT

Crimson is a brand name that sells tickets so Fripp can go on tour. It was very convenient that he had the idea that the band he'd started as Discipline should re-brand itself as King Crimson. It was very convenient that after limited sales for Jakszyk, Fripp and Collins that Fripp should realise there needs to be a new King Crimson with the same people in it. He's playing to a nostalgic audience base by giving them a known quantity, because he can't sell enough using another name.

Do you think he actually truly believes what he states in these sorts of interviews? I tend to think actually he does, even though its pretty silly, and very self-serving as you point out.

Maybe its a way to self-justify it, without feeling commercially 'crass'.

Anyway, the new KC is very good and RF is very smart guy and also pretty silly.

I tend to agree with both of you, I tend to have a higher degree of tolerance for the jibber jabber given I can be a bit of a Crimbo fanboy but its hard to argue against them primarily being a nostalgia act these days. Fripp may well have convinced himself of most of it as its a hell of a lot of effort to hold up something you don't actually believe in.

I'd love them to release some new music but I've essentially given up on that now and excepted that they are just a stunningly good live band who I'm going to go see whenever they come through until they stop being that good.

[Mascodagama]

people really can't handle a musician who has managed to take control of their art, career and also try to explain what they do.

pretension is a good trait when it can illustrate the insular mind in combo with the outside presentation of said mind. it's not easy as shown with many Fripp salvos



I guess a mere "ramallamma" does some people just fine . . . offer up some pseudo new age jibber jabber, tell the same fucking rock and roll personality stories again, flop on to the next grift, play the hits, rinse and repeat and toke

I admire Fripp as a musician and composer. I admire the way he fought to regain control of his music and how he operates his business autonomously and on a basis that's fair to the participants. I admire his stance against the use of phones and cameras at gigs.

None of this is incompatible with the view that he also talks a fair amount of bollocks.

[jkelman]

It's a good article, as Anil always delivers. But I find I just can't stomach wading through Fripp's self-serving jibber-jabber. All this Crimson is a way of doing things stuff... Crimson is a brand name that sells tickets so Fripp can go on tour. It was very convenient that he had the idea that the band he'd started as Discipline should re-brand itself as King Crimson. It was very convenient that after limited sales for Jakszyk, Fripp and Collins that Fripp should realise there needs to be a new King Crimson with the same people in it. He's playing to a nostalgic audience base by giving them a known quantity, because he can't sell enough using another name. I don't mind '70s bands playing to a nostalgic audience base by giving them a known quantity. It's just I can only roll my eyes so many times before giving myself a headache.

Henry

Increasingly, having seen the band six times since 2014 (and planning twice this fall), all I can say is: Crimson isn't just playing to a "nostalgia" crowd. The demographics are expanding, so it's no longer just gray hairs and no hairs (like, I suspect, most of us here) dominating their audiences; increasing numbers of women are in attendance, and the overall age is no longer largely 55+; instead, I'm seeing people ranging from teens through thirties and forties, ultimately lowering the median age considerably. And that means, implicitly, that the number of people attending for nostalgia reasons is dropping and the number of people hearing Crimson for the first time is on the rise.

So think what you will, Henry, but based on my experience at least, Crimson is playing increasingly to audiences new to its music. And while some interpretations of material across its fifty year span are moderately faithful, far more take plenty of liberty in arrangement (an eight piece "Fracture," for exqnple) AND both individual and collective interpretation, at least that's certainly what I've heard, each and every time I've seen them. And more: this is a band that's evolved considerably over the past five years (compare Orpheum or Toronto to Chicago...or, even better, Radical Action to Meltdown). This is a band that's evolving.

Nostalgia acts don't, by definition, do that.

This is no nostalgia act; it IS a repertory act, but there's a difference.

[helix]

This is no nostalgia act; it IS a repertory act, but there's a difference.

I don't think people will admit or understand this


either that or will bloat about it not being the case. in fact the failed 2007/08 line-up may be used as an example where this 'nostalgia' tag killed Fripp's model and then ceased to exist. it certainly feels different


I personally don't need to feel nostalgic about a period where i was 5 years old, 7 years old lol but HEY, that's just me.

sure, ignore the music that people want to hear, obscure and common, just ignore it all. pious shit



it's 2019. to see Steve Howe play his parts, Steve Hackett revisit his, having Nick Mason play (as a single drummer) in a combo or to see Fripp lead from the side . . . it's all a gift at this moment

[jamesmanzi]

Love you guys, but I find the level of pretension in the complaints about Fripp's "pretentiousness" so far beyond anything Fripp approaches.

[jkelman]

in fact the failed 2007/08 line-up may be used as an example where this 'nostalgia' tag killed Fripp's model and then ceased to exist. it certainly feels different

Great point!! KC 2007-08 was largely nostalgia, even though it didn't go any further back than 1981, and certainly felt like it. KC 2014-present is a whole 'nuther story, at least to my ears. Everything I said in my last post still stands, whereas I couldn't apply the same descriptions to 2007-08. So that's an excellent point (wish I'd said it )

I personally don't need to feel nostalgic about a period where i was 5 years old, 7 years old lol but HEY, that's just me.

Well, I was 13 when ItCotKC was released and have followed the group, to varying degrees, ever since, so I am rife for being considered a "nostalgia-driven" guy. But, truth be told, the only two groups from the '70s that I continue to follow fully and completely are: King Crimson and Van der Graaf Generator. Now, VdGG isn't the improvising group Crimson is (though it uses improvs in the studio as a means of developing new ideas and new pieces, I personally wish the group had kept Present as a single disc of songs, and left ALT off of the release schedule. Interesting, perhaps, to hear how they used improv, as I say, to come up with new material...but not everything is release-worthy, and I think that both of the above releases would have been better as described. I have the Japanese 3CD version of Real Time, the live set from the 2005 revived VdGG quartet, before David Jackson left. And while I am still happy I paid the extra bucks for three songs on that third CD, I could definitely have done without "Gibberish," the "unreleased soundcheck material" that was nearly 14 minutes of aimless meanderings, sorry to say. But "Pilgrims," "When She Comes" and "Still Life," even if totaling only a mere 23 minutes, are worth the price of admission, at least IMHO.

Anyway, the reason I also follow VdGG is, live improvisers though they may not truly be, they've now delivered four very, very good studio albums since reforming for 2005's Present. I am still very partial to A Grounding in Numbers, though I think all three albums as a trio are top-drawer (Presence has a couple of classic VdGG songs, in particular "Every Bloody Emperor," but is an uneven album. Odd how they became much better after Jackson's departure (and as much as I love his work with the band).

Anyway, these are the two "big name" groups from the time that I still follow in the second decade off the 21st century, for two different but, in some ways, similar reasons. For different reasons, what KC and VdGG are that many '60s/'70s-era groups are not?

To my ears at least, they remain both fresh and, even more importantly, relevant.

sure, ignore the music that people want to hear, obscure and common, just ignore it all. pious shit

it's 2019. to see Steve Howe play his parts, Steve Hackett revisit his, having Nick Mason play (as a single drummer) in a combo or to see Fripp lead from the side . . . it's all a gift at this moment

You are correct, of course. The Hackett shows I've seen, either live or on BR, are outstanding, albeit much more nostalgia-driven; Yes is finally playing well, at least IMO, after a long spell of not doing so during the first part of the new millennium, but they still are even more nostalgic and, since I am old enough to have seen them at their peak, I prefer to stick with those memories. Nick Mason? Man, I'd love to see that one....!