CTTE 2020

[Poisoned Youth]

^^ P.S.: We don't do refunds.

You ain’t kidding. But in defense of the organizers, it’s extremely difficult to get cruise lines and airlines to provide anything other than credit.

[ronmac]

You ain’t kidding. But in defense of the organizers, it’s extremely difficult to get cruise lines and airlines to provide anything other than credit.

Understood. The big question is what type of insurance policy they have in place. You'd think that, being a cruise line, and in light of all the other problems they've had with viruses, that there would be an insurance policy in place. Or even a requirement to have one. Certainly, their liability insurance must be high. Yes, it would be expensive, but that comes with the territory. I would be willing to be that they do have a policy but are doing all they can to avoid using it.

[Poisoned Youth]

Understood. The big question is what type of insurance policy they have in place. You'd think that, being a cruise line, and in light of all the other problems they've had with viruses, that there would be an insurance policy in place. Or even a requirement to have one. Certainly, their liability insurance must be high. Yes, it would be expensive, but that comes with the territory. I would be willing to be that they do have a policy but are doing all they can to avoid using it.

No argument from me.

[Top Cat]

^^ P.S.: We don't do refunds.

I would be interested to know what people think who had purchased tickets for this cruise and are now stuck with a future date.
What happens if the new cruise date is not an option for some ticket buyers. Their schedule may not allow them to go at the dates the cruise chooses.
I guess it's good to know all your options when shelling out thousands of dollars for this cruise.
My thought is the no refund policy may cause some fans to no longer purchase a cruise ticket for CCTE and will not set well with them
Granted the no refund policy is well known as far as I know, but something like this which is more or less a national emergency and not just a matter of someone due to personal reasons not choosing to go.
I suspect due to the reason the cruise is canceled, and CCTE has chosen to not offer refunds, there will be lawsuits filed against the company, you may even see a group lawsuit.

It's a shame, because to their credit, the organizers have made available a wonderful cruise with a plethora of major Prog acts. I just think the no refund rule will leave a bad taste in people's minds and may affect future sales.

[rminsk]

But there are refunds (at least partial) if they cancel the cruise. By rescheduling the cruise they are trying to get around refunding the money

CANCELLATION BY OTB AND/OR NLC
In the event of strike, lockouts, extreme weather, government restriction, illness of key personnel, public health issues (i.e., viruses, diseases, contagions, pandemics, air quality or other health or environmental issues that might affect the health of passengers and/or crew) vessel damage or unavailability, riots or stoppage of labor from whatever causes, or for any other force majeure reason whatsoever beyond the control of OTB or NCL (collectively “Force Majeure”), OTB and/or NCL in their sole discretion, may cancel, advance, or postpone the Cruise in its entirety or any scheduled sailing or call at any port and may (but is not obligated to) substitute another vessel. In the event of cancellation of the Cruise for reasons of Force Majeure, OTB sole obligation to you shall be to return your fare/ticket price paid, less a pro-rata amount allocated among all passengers for any non-refundable talent/artist/musician/production fees or any other any fees (as solely determined by OTB) or for which OTB is obligated; it is estimated, but not guaranteed, that the non-refundable talent/artist/musician fees will not exceed One Thousand Dollars ($1,000.00 USD) per passenger; however, any and all refunds shall be subject to refund/reimbursement to OTB of all deposits made to NCL, and OTB receipt of applicable refunds from the artists or any other applicable vendor. OTB shall not be held responsible for passenger deposits held by NCL, but not refunded to OTB, upon cancellation as a result of Force Majeure. In any other case arising out of an event of Force Majeure (postponement, advancement, change of itinerary, substitution, etc.), neither NCL nor OTB shall be liable to passengers for any loss, liability, or claims whatsoever.

If, however, the Cruise is completely cancelled for reasons primarily within OTB’s control, OTB shall return to you your cabin fare and related taxes and fees, or, if the Cruise is partially cancelled for reasons primarily within OTB’s control, a proportionate part thereof. Under such circumstances, OTB and the Released Parties shall have no further liability for damages or compensation of any kind.

Please note that the availability of any refund for travel insurance and/or other travel products (airfare, hotel, car rental), even if purchased in conjunction with the Cruise, will be determined in accordance with the applicable cancellation policies for such other products or services and shall not be the responsibility or obligation of OTB or NCL.

And the old wording (from the internet archives dated August 18)

CANCELLATION BY OTB AND/OR NCL
In the event of strike, lockouts, riots or stoppage of labor from whatever causes, or for any other reason whatsoever beyond the control of OTB or NCL, OTB and/or NCL in its sole discretion may cancel, advance, or postpone any scheduled sailing or call at any port and may (but is not obligated to) substitute another vessel, and neither NCL nor OTB shall be liable for any loss whatsoever to passengers by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement, or substitution. If the Cruise is completely canceled, OTB shall return to you your cabin fare, cruise line transfers and related taxes and fees, or, if the Cruise is partially cancelled, a proportionate part thereof. Under such circumstances, OTB and the Released Parties shall have no further liability for damages or compensation of any kind. Please note that the availability of any refund for travel insurance and/or other travel products (airfare, hotel, car rental), even if purchased in conjunction with the Cruise, will be determined in accordance with the applicable cancellation policies for such other products or services and shall not be the responsibility or obligation of OTB or NCL.

[Top Cat]

But there are refunds (at least partial) if they cancel the cruise. By rescheduling the cruise they are trying to get around refunding the money

And the old wording (from the internet archives dated August 18)

Due to the cancellation coming from something out of everyone's control, outside forces rather than personal, I would hope CCTE does the right thing and offer people a choice of going on the rescheduled dates or a refund. It's the right thing to do, if they decide not to do something like that and choose to enforce legal argument, it will forever stain the CCTE name and experience in my opinion.

Using Force Majeure(Act of God) as a defense to not refund money has the smell of insurance companies not wishing to honor a contract by pulling out the Act of God law.
In the 21st Century to use God in legal terms(and I am a believer) is astonishing.
Here is a article on Force Majeure and how it is being used in relation to CoVid-19 legal issues.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...eure-quicktake

[moecurlythanu]

How many insurance companies will still be solvent after this COVID-19 outbreak is over?

[r2daft2]

Very sad that CTTE and OTB had to be postponed but it was inevitable especially after the events of the last couple of days.
OTB didn't have the same problems as CTTE (No headliner pulling out or issues with numbers of European bands not being able to travel) so I would surmise that this has been a decision made with the greater influence of NCL and the US government rather than the promoter (the On The Blue team).
Anybody know what NCL's current plans for their other cruise ships are?
Who pays what for the losses that will be incurred has yet to be determined (Trump did promise to "support the cruise industry" through the covid-19 problem - whatever that means). However, I very much doubt that OTB will be sitting on all the cash at this stage and offering refunds will hardly be an option for them until such time that it all gets sorted.
Of course it would be nice to have monies returned immediately but I don't mind in the circumstances. Sorting out cancellations for flights and pre-cruise accommodation comes first.

[SteveSly]

I would be interested to know what people think who had purchased tickets for this cruise and are now stuck with a future date.
What happens if the new cruise date is not an option for some ticket buyers. Their schedule may not allow them to go at the dates the cruise chooses.
I guess it's good to know all your options when shelling out thousands of dollars for this cruise.
My thought is the no refund policy may cause some fans to no longer purchase a cruise ticket for CCTE and will not set well with them
Granted the no refund policy is well known as far as I know, but something like this which is more or less a national emergency and not just a matter of someone due to personal reasons not choosing to go.
I suspect due to the reason the cruise is canceled, and CCTE has chosen to not offer refunds, there will be lawsuits filed against the company, you may even see a group lawsuit.

It's a shame, because to their credit, the organizers have made available a wonderful cruise with a plethora of major Prog acts. I just think the no refund rule will leave a bad taste in people's minds and may affect future sales.

I am taking a wait and see attitude at this point. One thing to keep in mind is that this was a charter and not a regular cruise. I can’t imagine what the promotors must have been dealing with the last week or so. It had to be and will continue to be a nightmare for them. Assuming the cruise is eventually re-scheduled there is no guarantee whether or not I could go. Actually, for me it would probably be best to postponed it for a year due to surgery I have coming up later in the year, but I guess we’ll see how this all turns out. I am trying to stay open minded.

Along the same lines, I have not seen much mention of ROSfest, but George has to be going through the same thing. For a small festival, this is pretty much a worst-case scenario.

[r2daft2]

NCL have now sent out emails to all guests confirming that ALL cruises embarking 13 March to 11 April are suspended.
The CTTE & OTB promoters clearly wouldn't have had any option to object to this decision even if they had wanted to.
NCL are offering 100% refunds (or 125% credit on future cruises) but the situation with private charters is obviously more complicated.
I'm happy to let them sort it out and keep us informed of developments as and when they can.

[ronmac]

How many insurance companies will still be solvent after this COVID-19 outbreak is over?

The bigger question is how many will get bailed out ... by us.

[Yodelgoat]

This is a great place to hang and have a friendly chat, but a prog forum may not be your best source for important health information. Just a thought. I am as bad about this as anyone... (well maybe not RC... )

[BravadoNJ]

The bigger question is how many will get bailed out ... by us.

EXACTLY!