Once again, we’re down to one Yes: ARW is toast

[JKL2000]

The subject line of this thread cracks me up because it makes it sound like we have multiple versions of every band. Eventually I guess we will.

[ytserush]

YesO will be touring this summer with the Carl Palmer Band opening. I was told that directly.
.

So this means I need to see Yes again? Suppose I could leave after Carl, but I'd already be there so it might be a bonus.

[Rarebird]

I would rather see a new album by Anderson and Ponty.

[Garyhead]

Isn't that most of the '70s or '80s prog bands still touring? Yes (both of them), Crimson, Camel, Gong, Caravan, Tangerine Dream, Kansas, Dream Theater, Soft Machine etc.

Henry

I think Strawbs last release Ferryman's Curse was a pretty good......and they are "doing a 50th" this year. Yes, on the other hand, has just become a bad Soap Opera / Super Hero franchise. IMHO, YMMV, LOL, FFS.

[bondegezou]

I think Strawbs last release Ferryman's Curse was a pretty good......and they are "doing a 50th" this year. Yes, on the other hand, has just become a bad Soap Opera / Super Hero franchise. IMHO, YMMV, LOL, FFS.

The question raised was not whether new releases are good or not, but, to quote, "What changes my opinion is when most of the original members are no longer in the band but one or two surviving members are and they tour as XXXX." My point is that most long-running bands end up this way (and indeed it applies to The Strawbs too).

Henry

[Scott Bails]

For the record, there was only ever one Yes, anyway.

[floyd umma gumma]

Maybe Yes will continue its permutations until Anderson has run out of alliances to make and break. There must be a lot of hard feelings among the key remaining members. It seemed Howe was feeling a little funny about not being in Yes when they hit it big with 90125, despite the fact that Asia was so successful. The Anderson and Squire fell out so Jon goes and forms an alliance with the other former Yes members and there's ABWH. So he pulls Howe and Bruford into that group, but then it seems Anderson was the one who was most eager to create the Union situation - and then suddenly Howe and Bruford are out of that and there is no more ABWH and Howe is an outsider again. So you can imagine how that might bother Howe, and how seeing ABWH touring the world might have irritated Squire a bit. So then they move from the Talk era into the Ladder/OYE era and reportedly Squire is trying to pull Rabin back into the band. So again, that has to be something Steve Howe wouldn't appreciate. So they grind it out until 2004 and then everyone remembers how much they resent Anderson and he is kicked to the curb. Eventually he forms an alliance with Rabin and Wakeman. I wonder if Rabin probably wouldn't have done this if Squire were around, he didn't want to get in the middle of the Anderson/Squire feud. So ARW runs its course and now I could see Anderson looking around and wondering what Yes members are around that he could work with now. But what would Howe's motivation be. He seems fine to go and play to crowds of 2,000 - 5,000 or so and play the old hits. Would bringing Anderson back sell a lot more tickets?
It seems ARW and Steve Howe's Yes were selling similar amounts of tickets. Putting the two bands together does not make me think they would be back at Madison Square Garden, and it certainly doesn't seem like they'd be able to happily create new music, so what would the motivation be for Howe to allow Anderson back?

[Top Cat]

The question raised was not whether new releases are good or not, but, to quote, "What changes my opinion is when most of the original members are no longer in the band but one or two surviving members are and they tour as XXXX." My point is that most long-running bands end up this way (and indeed it applies to The Strawbs too).

Henry

Let me clarify my thought process and why I made that comment.
Here in the States our Public Television Network will run concerts as fund drivers for public funding. One of their favorites is one or two concerts featuring groups from the 60's, Motown era, Do-Wop(Frankie Valli) and 60's Rock n Roll(like Herman's Hermits). Many of these groups only have one surviving member, and when the term nostalgia act was used here, it made me think of these groups.
You may find groups today touring as group XXXX when it's the original drummer or bass player, but the vocalist, guitarist or keyboard player which the songs are most associated with are not in the band. I think nostalgia.

But there are groups still touring today, while not having ALL of the original members are still legitimately that group it was when they first came out.
For instance, Camel to me IS Andy Latimer and while the people around him may be new, he is still Camel. Same with Kansas, Kansas still has 3 members who have been with them for decades, so to me they ARE Kansas.
Robert Fripp IS King Crimson, the players around him may change, but to me he is the driving creative force.
Dream Theater still has the bulk of their original members(to me James has been there long enough and is associated with Dream Theater more than Charlie Dominici).

If any of the groups mentioned in this thread would qualify for not being that group, I would have to say it is Official Yes, not one original member is in it. And I LOVE Official Yes, but if we go by the original member or members rule, they wouldn't qualify to call themselves Yes and since Jon was an original member of Yes, that title would go to his band..I know, I know it's all silly stuff and I am rambling. lol

People may disagree with my thought process, but I don't see many of these groups listed as nostalgia acts, whether every single original member is still in the group or not.
I understand what you are saying Henry, but I wanted to explain what I meant when I made that comment.

[JJ88]

He seems fine to go and play to crowds of 2,000 - 5,000 or so and play the old hits. Would bringing Anderson back sell a lot more tickets?
It seems ARW and Steve Howe's Yes were selling similar amounts of tickets. Putting the two bands together does not make me think they would be back at Madison Square Garden, and it certainly doesn't seem like they'd be able to happily create new music, so what would the motivation be for Howe to allow Anderson back?

Not now, no. They were definitely building things up again in that early 00s period, when they were playing MSG and Wembley Arena again- when I got into the old albums, actually. But a fair amount of damage has been done since.

Beyond knowing that Fly From Here Return Trip was coming out, I haven't followed the activities of the other Yes for some years. But to be fair, they just get on with things without too much fuss and hype.

[yamishogun]

But what would Howe's motivation be. He seems fine to go and play to crowds of 2,000 - 5,000 or so and play the old hits. Would bringing Anderson back sell a lot more tickets?

The crowds are 1,000 to 2,000.

[dgtlman]

Three pages and counting on pure speculation. I heard that Genesis is considering..........

[Halmyre]

Three pages and counting on pure speculation. I heard that Genesis is considering..........

...Peter, Ant and John Silver. Trouble is they need to lure Tony Levin away from King Crimson, which could lead to a horse's head in Gabe's bed. As for keyboards, who's available? If ARW are toast, is Rick willing to come on board?

Meanwhile Tony, Phil and Mike have lured Bill Bruford out of retirement by promising him back-royalties on 'Seconds Out'.

[happytheman]

The crowds are 1,000 to 2,000.

Last summer we saw them in Richmond Va.. Half the seats were empty.. with that said it was a great show.. band was on fire that night.. I would see them again this summer if the set list is different.
IMG_9259.jpg

[moecurlythanu]

While I firmly believe that 2 Yesses are better than 1 Yes, and 4 Yesses would be better than 2, the apparent catastrophe of halving the quantity of Yes in the world is tempered somewhat by the knowledge that the world has been able to survive in the past with only one Yes in existence, however depressing that may have been. With that in mind, we here at PE must look deep inside, and muster the strength to somehow soldier on. My expectation is that we are a hardy lot, and will draw strength from one another. It is with that in mind that I say, "Be not moved by these dark days. Better times are ahead of us if we do not weaken."

[The Dark Elf]

While I firmly believe that 2 Yesses are better than 1Yes, and 4 Yesses would be better than 2, the apparent catastrophe of halving the quantity of Yes in the world is tempered somewhat by the knowledge that the world has been able to survive in the past with only one Yes in existence, however depressing that may have been. With that in mind, we here at PE must look deep inside, and muster the strength to somehow soldier on. My expectation is that we are a hardy lot, and will draw strength from one another. It is with that in mind that I say, "Be not moved by these dark days. Better times are ahead of us if we do not weaken."

What if the 2 Yeses merge? Would they be called "Aye Aye" or "Okey Dokey"?

[luvyesmusic]

Last summer we saw them in Richmond Va.. Half the seats were empty.. with that said it was a great show.. band was on fire that night.. I would see them again this summer if the set list is different.
IMG_9259.jpg

To be fair, wasn't that an added show?

Many folks also wait to buy tickets just prior to shows nowadays no matter who is playing. I was at the Warner Theatre in d.c. the night before, seen the first two nights in St. Charles, Ill so had zero interest driving diwn to Richmond.

Older fans get out less and less, spend less and less every year, no matter how much they loved grouos from their youth.

Sadly ;-) I bought my daughter a Sean Mendez concert ticket last year for sometime this year. Made the purchase, week later, I was informed the ticket included an album as well. Great way to get easy album sales/ affect chart sales.

[rich]

[QUOTE=Rarebird;885384]

I would rather see a new album by Anderson and Ponty.[/QUOTE

I would not argue that! I enjoyed that LP, would loved to have heard more original material... but the tour was very entertaining and worth a follow up on all levels.

[Rarebird]

What if the 2 Yeses merge? Would they be called "Aye Aye" or "Okey Dokey"?

They can do the 'Everyone who was ever in Yes and still alive and able and willing to play Tour'.

[Steve983]

Not interested in ARW at all so happy that only the real Yes are left, unlikely that Jon A will join again. My theory is that Yes will continue until Steve has to retire, cant see it going beyond that to be honest. Jon D has my full support but I don't think Yes could continue without Howe, I mean it could but the audience will shrink to make it unviable.

[yamishogun]

the audience will shrink to make it unviable.

Yes Featuring Billy Sherwood would cut ticket sales by at least 10 percent.

[yamishogun]

Not interested in ARW at all

You must not be aware how well Rabin shreds!

[Steve983]

^ I don't like Rabin's guitar style and his 'interpretation' of Howe's guitar parts. Sherwood is great and I would still go and see Yes with a suitable guitarist (not Rabin) but I fear many would not.

[bondegezou]

Let me clarify my thought process and why I made that comment.
Here in the States our Public Television Network will run concerts as fund drivers for public funding. One of their favorites is one or two concerts featuring groups from the 60's, Motown era, Do-Wop(Frankie Valli) and 60's Rock n Roll(like Herman's Hermits). Many of these groups only have one surviving member, and when the term nostalgia act was used here, it made me think of these groups.
You may find groups today touring as group XXXX when it's the original drummer or bass player, but the vocalist, guitarist or keyboard player which the songs are most associated with are not in the band. I think nostalgia.

But there are groups still touring today, while not having ALL of the original members are still legitimately that group it was when they first came out.
For instance, Camel to me IS Andy Latimer and while the people around him may be new, he is still Camel. Same with Kansas, Kansas still has 3 members who have been with them for decades, so to me they ARE Kansas.
Robert Fripp IS King Crimson, the players around him may change, but to me he is the driving creative force.
Dream Theater still has the bulk of their original members(to me James has been there long enough and is associated with Dream Theater more than Charlie Dominici).

If any of the groups mentioned in this thread would qualify for not being that group, I would have to say it is Official Yes, not one original member is in it. And I LOVE Official Yes, but if we go by the original member or members rule, they wouldn't qualify to call themselves Yes and since Jon was an original member of Yes, that title would go to his band..I know, I know it's all silly stuff and I am rambling. lol

People may disagree with my thought process, but I don't see many of these groups listed as nostalgia acts, whether every single original member is still in the group or not.
I understand what you are saying Henry, but I wanted to explain what I meant when I made that comment.

I don't support the sentiment I was responding to. The focus on original members seems silly to me (I agree with you about LaBrie over Dominici or indeed Collins; or there's Peart over Rutsey, or Kelly over Jelliman).

On the other hand, if you're talking about Camel or Crimson, I would say Camel has become Latimer, as Crimson has become Fripp, but neither band started that way. I don't think Fripp was any more the key creative force in Crimson at the beginning than McDonald, Lake or even Giles. Camel was as much Bardens as Latimer for the first 7 years.

My point is that groups change. Few long-running groups avoid all change (although some do, like U2). One might like those changes more or less, but change is the rule, not the exception. Often that change leads to the band being defined by one person (as with Camel or Crimson). As you indicate, what makes a band come to be perceived as a "nostalgia act" is more complicated.

Henry

[Top Cat]

My point is that groups change. Few long-running groups avoid all change (although some do, like U2). One might like those changes more or less, but change is the rule, not the exception. Often that change leads to the band being defined by one person (as with Camel or Crimson). As you indicate, what makes a band come to be perceived as a "nostalgia act" is more complicated.

Henry

Although our opinions may differ on some of this, I like what you wrote here, and agree.

[TheH]

Hey there are about 12 different versions of the New Trolls and about 6 or 7 of Goblin.

So only 2 or 3 Yes versions are still moderate.

And some stupid stuff: The first Marillion Keyboardist was Neil Cockle so his band "The Mighty Bard" has more
original members that Marillion themselves (currently: 0)