How much digital editing is there on studio drum tracks?

[Yodelgoat]

I'll set up a click with the time changes in it, then start playing drums to it. The difference is that I'll play a verse, get it played right, then stop. Then, on 8 separate tracks, I'll record the chorus, then stop. Then record the next verse, stop, and so on. I then merge the tracks together, so that all the bass drums are one track, all the snares are one, etc. I mostly do this because it's a darn sight easier to get one section right, rather than a whole 8-minute track with no other instruments on it. But I end up with a driving set of drum tracks that I then can record the guitars/keys/bass/etc. to, with no click, and the end result sounds a lot like a full band crankin' it out....with nothing else but the song in my head...

That sounds really ambitious, but if you can do it, Excellent! I start with an acoustic guitar, and a click, work out all the tempo changes. Add MIDI keyboards, Then Bass - that's my main instrument, Guitars come next, drums and finally Vocals. I've got three fairly epic pieces - in varying states of disarray, and I cant tell you how good it would be to have the drums and bass down nice and tight, and build everything around that. The good news is, bass is about the easiest instrument to edit - at least for me. If it isn't quite tight, its fairly easy to fix. I think with my next attempt I'll take your suggestions to heart and start with drums. Thanks!

[Wilton Said...]

I just posted in another forum about my experience in listening to a bunch of other Indie Bands.

http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...ic-Observation

Many of them had extremely un natural drums sounds both in actual sound and in style. They were so sterile, perfect, compressed and quantized. Add to that, every other instrument was also quantized and pitch corrected. It sucked any life out of the music.

Wilton

[arabicadabra]

>Good suggestion. I use a very basic click - 1 click per measure, I generally have a hard time staying on that. <

Wow I would find that impossible. I need at least the quarter notes (and occasionally the 8th notes) in my phones to give me the tempo I can play along to. Karl makes a sequence up to record to - click track and a MIDI keyboard track, occasionally scratch guitar - just so I know where I am in the song. If I wrote it, I can just use a click; if someone else wrote it, the sequenced keyboard really helps.

[klothos]

The main problem in my ears is that the more precisely the drums are made to fit the grid, the more you loose a sense of groove and propulsion. Most drummers would agree that being able to play precise, to keep the time and to place your hits precisely, is extremely important. But most drummers would also agree that to become a really good drummer, you have to move beyond that, and allow yourself to dance around the grid rather than to be "on" it all the time. Steely Dan said something about that once, that to be a great musician you have to strive for perfection, and then move beyond perfection, to a place where the rules are internalized and you are free to play with them. That's when music comes alive.

THAT's what's lacking in today's quantized music world. IMO.

+1

excellent post.....thread could have ended here

Sometimes I will actually manually shift some of the samples around ( I record my drum tracks with layers of multi-samples), Sometimes I will go further and ever-so-slightly slightly offset the snare track behind to "fatback" a groove......For the record, I am also one of those guys that has fooled experienced drummers with my programming

[Dean Watson]

Kiothos, I'd like to hear some of our tunes then - Can we?

[klothos]

Kiothos, I'd like to hear some of our tunes then - Can we?

Sure, no problem -- I'll do some edits and upload an MP3 of bits-n-pieces (a fade-in/verse/chorus/fade-out) of a few songs either later tonight or tommorrow

[digestif]

I'm late to this thread, but I'll chip in.
I tend to keep a few drum takes and then edit only on a large scale by selecting sections - if I don't like a placement of a hit then rather than move it I'll pick another take for that whole section. My motivation is a mixture of lack of confidence in editing, with all the sustained cymbal noise around, and the desire to keep something like a real performance.
On reference/click tracks while tracking drums I always use create a melodic guide track with midi and have that in the cans - then I can groove around that rather than trying to align with clicks or drum beats. The midi guide also reminds me where I am in the tune, which can be structurally complex.
Another great resource to hear views from some professionals is www.recordingwebsite.com.