Sweden vs Norway final showdown

[Trane]

Samla Mannas Manna!
Exit Norway.

I'll take modern Norwegian "prog" scene/crowd (in the larger sense of the word) over the Swedish modern scene, but why choose.

And again, Denmark gets completely ignored.

If in the 70's prog, Denmark defended itself well, it's been +/- inexistent in prog since the millennium (and the 90's as well, FTM)

And what about poor Finland! Are they no longer part of Scandinavia anymore?

Watch out for the hammer of the underworld.

Alamaailman Vasarat

I'd include Finland in there as well (I know it's not part of the geographical Scandinavia, but it's got a strong link with Sweden (see below for more)

It isn't in, at least in Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
However in English Scandinavia can sometimes refer to the Nordic countries, which includes Finland, Iceland and sometimes the Faroe Islands.
And Greenland is not included despite it been part of the Nordic countries and an independent part of Denmark.
So it's a more complex question than one might think.

in terms of pure geography, Scandinavia wouldn't include Denmark either, since it's only the peninsula shared by Norway & Sweden that's concerned.

Finland has never been part of Scandinavia. And it doesn't depend on who you ask. I live in Sweden. I am a Swede. Neither Swedes nor Finns consider Finland as part of Scandinavia simply because it isn't. Finland is part of what we call Norden (The Nordic countries) The Finns do not belong to the same cultural group or the same language group as the Scandinavian countries. That's like calling Belarus a Baltic State simply because it borders two of them.

However, Finland has some great metal bands. Haven't heard any Finnish prog though.

plenty of great Finnish prog, not only in the 70's (Haikara, Tasavallan Presidentii, Wigwan, Finnforest, etc....) , but in the 90's & 00's (Hoyry Kone, Alamaail, Manogurgeil Uzva ,etc...) as well... Not to mention their jazz great scene.

But the same "Scandic cultural" debate can also happen with Iceland as well. Musically, one can find the same kind of musical tradition (folk music) between Iceland and Finland and the countries between them.
Just like there are musical links that can be made between Alamaailman Vasarat and Samla Manna or Zamla.

So yes, the Finnish language is nothing Scandinavian/Germanic) (nor is it European, FTM), but it's difficult to be in Finland and pick out the Swedish minority there on physical traits alone.
Then you've got the Lapp/Sami people in all of those countries (except once again Denmark) and Bjork is the living proof that the Samis also got "out there" as well.

Personally I have always considered Scandinavia to include Finland (btw aprox. 10% speaks swedish, and a large number lives in Sweden), Island, Faroe Islands, Åland - I have friends in these regions.
But you can debate this endlessly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

TBH, most of the Finnish scientist colleagues that I work with in my field have got Swedish names (Holmstrom, Ahlstrand, for ex)

[Zeuhlmate]

Perhaps an approach could be: Uniqe bands in each country (nothing similar elsewhere Scandinavia), like

Rypdal in Norway
Supersilent in Norway
Samla Mamma in Sweden
Mats/Morgan in Sweden
Pekka Pohjola in Finland
Tassavalan in Finland
Hinn Íslenzki Þursaflokkur in Iceland
Burning Red Ivanhoe in Denmark
etc.

[Camelogue]

Who knew?

[progmatist]

Speaking of poor Finland, they spent centuries ping-ponging between being owned by Sweden and Russia. Only in 1917 did they finally become their own independent nation.

Musically speaking, not only does some of the best prog come from Scandinavia, some of my favorite classical composers are/were Nordic.

[AndiSexgang]

in terms of pure geography, Scandinavia wouldn't include Denmark either, since it's only the peninsula shared by Norway & Sweden that's concerned.

Incorrect in two ways, first of all Scandinavia is not a geographical term in the sense of describing an area simply on geographical borders, it is a cultural term for three countries that all stem from one people. Secondly the heart of Scandinavia back in the middle ages was Skåne (Scandia) in the south of Sweden and Denmark, which at one time ruled Skåne. The odd thing is though that no one in Sweden uses the word Skandinavien.

[Mister Triscuits]

Uff da.

[moecurlythanu]

^ There's a blast from the past.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

my favorite albums (one from each artist) of all styles of progressive Rock music from Scandinavia are:

Änglagård Hybris Swe
Anekdoten Nucleus Swe
Isildurs Bane Cheval - Volonte de Rocher Swe
Pohjola, Pekka Keesojen Lehto (aka Mathematician's Air Display) Fin
Bodin, Tomas An Ordinary Night in my Ordinary Life Swe
Finnforest Lahto Matkalle Fin
Hansson, Bo Sagan om Ringen (aka Lord of the Rings) Swe 1970
Jupu Group Ahmoo! Fin 1975
Kornet Kornet Swe 1975
Lindh, Björn J:son Från Storstad till Grodspad Swe 1971
Nilson, Johan Earsick Swe 1999
Panzerpappa Pestrottedans Nor 2016
Schaffer, Janne Janne Schaffer (aka The Chinese) Swe 1973
Secret Oyster Sea Son Den
Tribute New Views Swe
Agusa Katarsis Swe
Älgarnas Trädgård Framtiden Är Ett Svävande Skepp, Förankrat I Forntiden Swe
All Traps on Earth A Drop of Light Swe
Atlas Blå Vardag Swe
Coronarias Dans Visitor Den
Egba Egba Swe
Flower Kings, The Retropolis Swe
Gladas Kapell (Apetrea, Nilsson, Sundell,Wadenius) De Gladas Kapell Spelar Nilsson Swe
Gösta Berlings Saga Sersophane Swe
Grand General Grand General Nor
Hellborg Group, Jonas e Swe
Hidria Spacefolk Astronautica Fin
Hooffoot Hooffoot Swe
Jaga Jazzist Starfire Nor
Johansson, Jens Fission Swe
Kvernberg, Ola Steamdome Nor
Ragnarök Fjärilar I Magen Swe
Rypdal, Terje Whenever I Seem To Be Far Away Nor
Sinkadus Cirkus Swe
Skøtt, Jakob Taurus Rising Den
Tolonen, Jukka Summer Games Fin
Vinding, Mads Group Danish Design Den
Zamla Mammaz Manna Familjesprickor Swe

Sweden - 24 artists
Finland - 5 artists
Norway - 5 artists
Denmark - 4 artists

[aith01]

^^ Hey, I don't see Mew in that list!

[thedunno]

^^ Hey, I don't see Mew in that list!

Because Mew is a pop band? <ducking>

[hFx]

The odd thing is though that no one in Sweden uses the word Skandinavien.

...you forget the weather reports...

[AndiSexgang]

...you forget the weather reports...

Reslly? I don't listern to or watch weather reports, so I'll take your word for it. But that surprises me.

[revporl]

Should be The Final Countdown, surely?

[Zappathustra]

Should be The Final Countdown, surely?

A good argument to press the nuclear-annihilation button against Sweden.

[hFx]

A good argument to press the nuclear-annihilation button against Sweden.

https://youtu.be/eUFzzy1Qg5w?t=25

[chalkpie]

Should be The Final Countdown, surely?

[Zappathustra]

https://youtu.be/eUFzzy1Qg5w?t=25

That's an argument to obliterate the whole human species

[Zappathustra]

Oh lol, tell me that's done intentionally.

That's a good one for the "I prefer the cover to the original" thread

[Scrotum Scissor]

^ Seeing as they're doing the best they can and obviously like what they're doing, it's very intentional. As is Michael Bolton, Snoop Dogg, Wynton Marsalis, Mike Portnoy, Limp Bizkit et al.

[Jacob Holm-Lupo]

The simplest way to define Scandinavia is to think of it as a community of language. Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are all basically dialects of the same language and we all understand each other. Finland belongs to a whole different language group, finno-ugrian or something like that. And Icelandic, while descending from the same Nordic mother tongue as the Scandinavian countries, has developed (or not developed, rather) differently from the Scandinavian languages, so we no longer understand the Icelandic people. Hence the differentiation between Scandinavia and the Nordics.

[Mister Triscuits]

so we no longer understand the Icelandic people.

Who does?

[Zeuhlmate]

The simplest way to define Scandinavia is to think of it as a community of language. Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are all basically dialects of the same language and we all understand each other. Finland belongs to a whole different language group, finno-ugrian or something like that. And Icelandic, while descending from the same Nordic mother tongue as the Scandinavian countries, has developed (or not developed, rather) differently from the Scandinavian languages, so we no longer understand the Icelandic people. Hence the differentiation between Scandinavia and the Nordics.

Linguistic scientist consider Danish, Nowegian and Swedish as separate languages, not dialects, but yes its rather close to each other. My generation understood Swedish and Norwegian, but today alas young people speak English with each other. Danish was more distinctly spoken earlier, but now the spoken and written language is driftin apart, and the pronunciation is getting so sloppy that even I get irritated.
Færøsk (Faeroe islandic language) is also hard to understand (for a Dane), but is basicly understood as an old Norwegian dialect.
The Finnish language is close to Estonian, they understand each other. It's also related to Samish (nomads of scandinavia and russia) and far out related to Hungarian.

[Scrotum Scissor]

My generation understood Swedish and Norwegian, but today alas young people speak English with each other. Danish was more distinctly spoken earlier, but now the spoken and written language is driftin apart, and the pronunciation is getting so sloppy that even I get irritated.

Zeuhlmate, man; on spending a few days in Copenhagen this last summer it struck me how hopelessly, almost provocatively silly some of that imaginary lingual barrier works with younger folks in your city. Even at the hotel (where I've been staying on each visit these recent years) there were 25-30 YOs who somehow pretended not to understand basic, clearly spoken Norwegian and would rather have me address them in my fluent English - which I promptly refused to. I tried pointing out to them that Norwegians would normally actually have a harder time discerning Danish than the other way around, but as it turned out they didn't even recognize which language I adhered to in the first place; "Sorry, we don't understand Faeroian here". They were simply unable to identify my tongue. But then again it appeared as if every fifth word they used between themselves were basically borrowed from English.

The whole ordeal was quite embarrassing, and I admit to being somewhat pissed off at the fact that it's essentially a generational issue; they are sloppy and unwilling to "take the time" to listen to what you're telling them, preferring it would seem to rather treat conversation as an arbitrary sonic in volume. When I left there I just had to express my sentiment to a taxi driver who was somehwere in his late 50s, apparently from Ålborg; he confirmed just about every suspicion I presented, complaining that it's not merely a question of lingual barriers - according to him it was a case of cultural ignorance in general. Which, if true, is mildly disconcerting.

The beautiful gal who served me Scotch at La Fontaine was an exception, though. She was even able to perform a modest verbal transaction on music. Those jazz women...

[Zeuhlmate]

Zeuhlmate, man; on spending a few days in Copenhagen this last summer it struck me how hopelessly, almost provocatively silly some of that imaginary lingual barrier works with younger folks in your city. Even at the hotel (where I've been staying on each visit these recent years) there were 25-30 YOs who somehow pretended not to understand basic, clearly spoken Norwegian and would rather have me address them in my fluent English - which I promptly refused to. I tried pointing out to them that Norwegians would normally actually have a harder time discerning Danish than the other way around, but as it turned out they didn't even recognize which language I adhered to in the first place; "Sorry, we don't understand Faeroian here". They were simply unable to identify my tongue. But then again it appeared as if every fifth word they used between themselves were basically borrowed from English.

The whole ordeal was quite embarrassing, and I admit to being somewhat pissed off at the fact that it's essentially a generational issue; they are sloppy and unwilling to "take the time" to listen to what you're telling them, preferring it would seem to rather treat conversation as an arbitrary sonic in volume. When I left there I just had to express my sentiment to a taxi driver who was somehwere in his late 50s, apparently from Ålborg; he confirmed just about every suspicion I presented, complaining that it's not merely a question of lingual barriers - according to him it was a case of cultural ignorance in general. Which, if true, is mildly disconcerting.

The beautiful gal who served me Scotch at La Fontaine was an exception, though. She was even able to perform a modest verbal transaction on music. Those jazz women...

I will not excuse on the behalf of my younger countrymen. They are egocentric morons.

My daughter (24) lives temporarily in Tromsø, and has to my relief no problems, but again, her grandmother was from Honningsvåg, the other grandmother is from Holland, married to a Swede (and she speaks a funny mix of swedish and dutch).

Btw - perhaps there are hope: The Norwegian TV-series "Skam" might have helped on some teenagers here. It was so popular thats some in that age-group adapted certain Norwegian phrases.

[hFx]

Btw - perhaps there are hope: The Norwegian TV-series "Skam" might have helped on some teenagers here. It was so popular thats some in that age-group adapted certain Norwegian phrases.

True also here