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Thread: Basic Home Recording Studio?

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I still use Sonar - because I know it. I just noticed that the track I record has to be adjusted so its in sync with the existing tracks. - Isnt there an adjustment to fix that? - anyone recall what it is?
    I've never seen anything like that, but it might be the case that you are using some outdated driver which is reporting the wrong latency or something like that. My first advice would be to update your ASIO drivers to the latest version and see if the probem continues. Another thing is to also update to the latest version of Sonar (which is now called Cakewalk by Bandlab and is available for free). Also would be good to check if your Windows is updated with the latest patches.
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  2. #27
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    Even geekier still would be programming in pure machine/assembly language. It was one thing keeping track of 64K or 640K worth of memory spaces. Try doing that with 8GB worth of memory spaces. It was one thing keeping track of 640 x 480 pixels with only 16 possible colors. Try doing that with 1920 x 1080 pixels, and millions of possible colors per pixel.
    Yikes! Well it can get worse...



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  3. #28
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Yikes! Well it can get worse...



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  4. #29
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I still use Sonar - because I know it. I just noticed that the track I record has to be adjusted so its in sync with the existing tracks. - Isnt there an adjustment to fix that? - anyone recall what it is?
    It's a latency thing and there is an adjustment/compensation for it somewhere in the settings. I had tons of problems with this on my old XP computer despite buying a Firewire interface with the recommended TI chipset. I spent hours trying to resolve it and I think I may have eventually gotten that working but then it was problems with MIDI timing being all over place. I eventually gave up. I think some recording interfaces may handle the latency in their drivers so if there is software for the interface that loads every time you start your computer you may want to look there for the setting. But Sonar has a place to adjust that too.

    There's a way to test your latency and measure it so you know how many milliseconds to adjust your latency by. I think you record a little on one track with something that has sharp transients (like a snare, woodblock, whatever), then loop the output of that track (physically) to the input of another. So you record the original track onto the second track. Then you zoom in and look at the two waveforms to see how far off the timing of the rising edge of the transients are. After adjusting the latency compensation you repeat the test to make sure the waveforms line up.
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  5. #30
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    I just watched this last night. Good info to have:

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  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    It's a latency thing and there is an adjustment/compensation for it somewhere in the settings. I had tons of problems with this on my old XP computer despite buying a Firewire interface with the recommended TI chipset. I spent hours trying to resolve it and I think I may have eventually gotten that working but then it was problems with MIDI timing being all over place. I eventually gave up. I think some recording interfaces may handle the latency in their drivers so if there is software for the interface that loads every time you start your computer you may want to look there for the setting. But Sonar has a place to adjust that too.

    There's a way to test your latency and measure it so you know how many milliseconds to adjust your latency by. I think you record a little on one track with something that has sharp transients (like a snare, woodblock, whatever), then loop the output of that track (physically) to the input of another. So you record the original track onto the second track. Then you zoom in and look at the two waveforms to see how far off the timing of the rising edge of the transients are. After adjusting the latency compensation you repeat the test to make sure the waveforms line up.
    Yeah, is it called dithering? I seem to recall messing with that when I first installed SONAR. Its been years since I have upgraded the machine, as I turned off every internet access to keep viruses out of my system. I do have to reboot every couple of days as it seems to get worse with time. You are describing my issue exactly as MIDI seems to just kind float. Fortunately it all sync's up when I do the render, so its only while recording that I notice the issue. I can usually just move a couple things slightly and it works. Much better than trying to update and/or try to learn a new DAW. Learning curves are not my favorite things. Plus I am already learning Ableton for my live show - and I wont use that for recording its too "modern" I need software that replicates the old school - where you actually perform the music, not just point and click. That's only fun if you don't know any better.
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  7. #32
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Yeah, is it called dithering? I seem to recall messing with that when I first installed SONAR. Its been years since I have upgraded the machine, as I turned off every internet access to keep viruses out of my system. I do have to reboot every couple of days as it seems to get worse with time. You are describing my issue exactly as MIDI seems to just kind float. Fortunately it all sync's up when I do the render, so its only while recording that I notice the issue. I can usually just move a couple things slightly and it works. Much better than trying to update and/or try to learn a new DAW. Learning curves are not my favorite things. Plus I am already learning Ableton for my live show - and I wont use that for recording its too "modern" I need software that replicates the old school - where you actually perform the music, not just point and click. That's only fun if you don't know any better.
    I think that may be more a case of MIDI jitter. The only thing I recall related to dithering are certain sample rate conversion schemes.
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  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    The only thing I recall related to dithering are certain sample rate conversion schemes.
    Dithering has nothing to do with any of this. It is just a noise that is added in order to mask the quantization noise when reducing the bit depth (for example, from 24 to 16 bits).

    About his sync issues, it is really hard to troubleshoot without knowing exactly what's going on. Could be related to some old drivers incompatibility, certain VST plugins reporting the wrong latency, or even some wrong settings in Cakewalk.
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  9. #34
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmrviana View Post
    Dithering has nothing to do with any of this. It is just a noise that is added in order to mask the quantization noise when reducing the bit depth (for example, from 24 to 16 bits).

    About his sync issues, it is really hard to troubleshoot without knowing exactly what's going on. Could be related to some old drivers incompatibility, certain VST plugins reporting the wrong latency, or even some wrong settings in Cakewalk.
    Thanks for the clarification. All I remembered (and I admit I could still be remembering this wrong) was that it was something that I saw in the screen where you convert your entire mix into a 2-track stereo WAV file....so it was a change in bit depth, not sample rate.

    Here's a link that talks about the different kinds of dithering:

    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentati...Mixing.61.html
    Last edited by Plasmatopia; 01-15-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. All I remembered (and I admit I could still be remembering this wrong) was that it was something that I saw in the screen where you convert your entire mix into a 2-track stereo WAV file....so it was a change in bit depth, not sample rate.

    Here's a link that talks about the different kinds of dithering:

    https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentati...Mixing.61.html
    Just to be clear, I didn't mean you were totally wrong on that. What I meant was to say that dithering has nothing to do with the sync problems the OP is having. I think I gave the wrong impression by quoting your post...
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  11. #36
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmrviana View Post
    Dithering has nothing to do with any of this. It is just a noise that is added in order to mask the quantization noise when reducing the bit depth (for example, from 24 to 16 bits).
    The only time I use dithering is when downsampling the original Hi-Res to 16/44.1 CD quality, for CD/MP3 production. At all other times, it's unnecessary so it's turned off.
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  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    The only time I use dithering is when downsampling the original Hi-Res to 16/44.1 CD quality, for CD/MP3 production. At all other times, it's unnecessary so it's turned off.
    Yes, that's the only time when it's really needed.
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  13. #38
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmrviana View Post
    Just to be clear, I didn't mean you were totally wrong on that. What I meant was to say that dithering has nothing to do with the sync problems the OP is having. I think I gave the wrong impression by quoting your post...
    lol, I did get the wrong impression, but no worries. That's a good point though....we are sort of off the original topic since dithering isn't the issue.
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  14. #39
    I guess when it gets to be too much trouble I'll update it and move on to something else. The nice thing about Sonar is I know it. That's a huge benefit. Concentrate on getting the part right - not learning how the thing works.
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  15. #40
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Jezuz now I'm all worried about dithering ...but glad to see the discussion since i'm about to jump back into Sonar as soon as I can get a few free hours to focus. Anyway I know there are other forums for this type of thing but always happy to the get PE membership viewpoint rather than a "random schmuck" on the home recording forums. Thanks again for the pointers!
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Jezuz now I'm all worried about dithering ...but glad to see the discussion since i'm about to jump back into Sonar as soon as I can get a few free hours to focus. Anyway I know there are other forums for this type of thing but always happy to the get PE membership viewpoint rather than a "random schmuck" on the home recording forums. Thanks again for the pointers!
    Don't worry about dithering. Most people can't tell if you dithered your music or not, and they don't care if they hear it at 127kps mp3 format or not. Most people are listening on inferior audio systems to begin with, so just concentrate on writing a good song, record it, mix it and then listen to it and/or share it.
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  17. #42
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    ^^^
    Words of wisdom. I always strive to make the best sounding recordings I can - part of the fun for me :-)
    The combined fortunes of the world's 26 richest individuals reached $1.4 trillion last year the same amount as the total wealth of the 3.8 billion poorest people.

  18. #43
    I'm so used to Cubase, I doubt I will ever use a different program, though tru the years Cubase has changed a lot, losing some things I loved and bringing new things I don't need. Luckily they are also improving things I use. Alas some things I use are only in the most expensive version, which also has a lot of things I never use.

  19. #44
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    I'm so used to Cubase, I doubt I will ever use a different program, though tru the years Cubase has changed a lot, losing some things I loved and bringing new things I don't need. Luckily they are also improving things I use. Alas some things I use are only in the most expensive version, which also has a lot of things I never use.
    I absolutely love Cubase. Bought my first copy around 04 when it was called VST/32 or something like that. I had no experience whatsoever working with software and no one to learn from, so there was a lot of hairpulling in those early days. Had a brief fling with early versions of Tracktion and upgraded when Mackie bought it out, but quit using it and went back to Cubase.
    Graduated to Cubase 4 and my last version which I still use and happy with is Cubase 6. That's all I need for the remainder of my recording home studio days.

    A year or so ago I bought a new Desktop dedicated solely to my DAW but I bought it with Windows 7 installed because I love the familiarity and workflow of it. Migrating all my stuff over was a nightmare and a few really old VST's didn't work very well, might be cause I installed 64bit version. Went ahead and upgraded to Komplete 11 with an external hard drive and we're good to go.
    I share my monitor, keyboard and mouse with my internet desktop and have a little do dad thingy that allows me to switch back and forth using one monitor, wireless keyboard and mouse.
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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I absolutely love Cubase. Bought my first copy around 04 when it was called VST/32 or something like that. I had no experience whatsoever working with software and no one to learn from, so there was a lot of hairpulling in those early days. Had a brief fling with early versions of Tracktion and upgraded when Mackie bought it out, but quit using it and went back to Cubase.
    Graduated to Cubase 4 and my last version which I still use and happy with is Cubase 6. That's all I need for the remainder of my recording home studio days.

    A year or so ago I bought a new Desktop dedicated solely to my DAW but I bought it with Windows 7 installed because I love the familiarity and workflow of it. Migrating all my stuff over was a nightmare and a few really old VST's didn't work very well, might be cause I installed 64bit version. Went ahead and upgraded to Komplete 11 with an external hard drive and we're good to go.
    I share my monitor, keyboard and mouse with my internet desktop and have a little do dad thingy that allows me to switch back and forth using one monitor, wireless keyboard and mouse.
    My first version of Cubase was on an Atari, I think it was version 3.1. That was I think somewhere in 1993.

  21. #46
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I still use Sonar - because I know it. I just noticed that the track I record has to be adjusted so its in sync with the existing tracks. - Isnt there an adjustment to fix that? - anyone recall what it is?
    Here's a trick I discovered: When preparing to record, go to Edit->Preferences->Playback and Recording. Deselect "Plug-In Load Balancing." This limits plugins, etc. which would otherwise disrupt the actual recording process. It will also result in the best possible recording quailty. When doing anything else like bouncing, exporting, or applying effects, be sure to re-enable Plug-In Load Balancing. Failure to do so will adversely effect sound quality.
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  22. #47
    OK! Now that's something I can try. I do load a lot of plugins, I had not thought about how that may affect signal processing. Thank you for the suggestion. I will see if that will help!
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  23. #48
    Sounds like your needs are quite modest, a laptop should be fine. The one I've been using for my last several solo albums is maybe 10 years old, 64 bit Dell with Windows 7. Soild as a rock.

    RME do many great sounding, affordable, and flexible interfaces of all sorts. They are helpful people too should you ever need support.

    DAW: Samplitude is the only one I've ever used (started with it in 1999) and certainly would recommend it.

    Where/how to master: you'll get as many answers as there are persons replying, I'll just recommend small, compact, unflattering, tight sounding little speakers and a small stereo amp with the tone all set flat. And a wah wah pedal of course.

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  24. #49
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    This video has some pretty good advice:


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