Tasty analogue synth prog: Bill Bressler "Normal Boy"

[Impman]

Anyone check this out yet? Lots of analog synthy goodness reminiscent of Genesis and Spock's Beard.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/b...ler/1446699854

[aith01]

Hey man, thanks for the tip! I'm listening to this now and enjoying it a lot! It's synthy and catchy, but tongue-in-cheek at the same time. I like it.

[Impman]

Glad you like... hope others are checking it out too! It appears to be on all major platforms

[Skullhead]

Anyone check this out yet? Lots of analog synthy goodness reminiscent of Genesis and Spock's Beard.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/b...ler/1446699854

Analog Synths sound great.
Fake drums don't sound great.
Genesis and Spock's had great human drummers with feel and depth.

[aith01]

Analog Synths sound great.
Fake drums don't sound great.
Genesis and Spock's had great human drummers with feel and depth.

Suit yourself. Not everyone can afford a human drummer.

[Impman]

Suit yourself. Not everyone can afford a human drummer.

Didn't bug me in the slightest- in fact hardly noticed under all that ARP-y Moog-ness

[aith01]

Didn't bug me in the slightest- in fact hardly noticed under all that ARP-y Moog-ness

Same here. It's just part of the style, and that's absolutely fine. Not all music needs to be made in a rock band format.

[Skullhead]

Suit yourself. Not everyone can afford a human drummer.

I am sure there are plenty of quality drummers who would have loved to track something like this... yes for free. At this point, it's just a demo.
I assume when people post things like this here, they are open to critic? Get a real drummer, then you might have something good. What music needs more than anything at this point in time is "authentic". There is plenty of fake everything going on these days.

[aith01]

I am sure there are plenty of quality drummers who would have loved to track something like this... yes for free. At this point, it's just a demo.
I assume when people post things like this here, they are open to critic? Get a real drummer, then you might have something good. What music needs more than anything at this point in time is "authentic". There is plenty of fake everything going on these days.

You don't like it, that's fine. Can't say I'm surprised by your opinion on this.

That doesn't mean this guy's music is somehow inauthentic. Quite the opposite in fact, if he made all of it by himself.

[Top Cat]

Analog Synths sound great.
Fake drums don't sound great.
Genesis and Spock's had great human drummers with feel and depth.

I am sure there are plenty of quality drummers who would have loved to track something like this... yes for free. At this point, it's just a demo.
I assume when people post things like this here, they are open to critic? Get a real drummer, then you might have something good. What music needs more than anything at this point in time is "authentic". There is plenty of fake everything going on these days.

I think it sounds great, and yes you are welcome to your opinion, but our opinion is we like it, the drums are fine and we disagree with your opinion.
I understand criticism and as musicians we open ourselves to the negative which is fine.

Btw, I use Addictive Drum software and there is nothing "fake" about it. All the drum patterns are played by a real drummer on real drums. The drums are meticulously recorded with studio grade microphones, and many of the drum samples/patterns are played by world class drummers(some famous).
The recording musician can then fill their tracks with multiple instances of real drums, patterns, etc.
There is nothing fake about any of it.
We pay good money for quality software which allows home studio musicians the luxury of having a real drummer play in our songs.
Here is a link that explains in detail how real drumming software is, it's not a drum machine.

https://www.xlnaudio.com/products/addictive_drums_2

and don't forget, Santa still hands out coal in stockings.

[Skullhead]

I think it sounds great, and yes you are welcome to your opinion, but our opinion is we like it, the drums are fine and we disagree with your opinion.
I understand criticism and as musicians we open ourselves to the negative which is fine.

Btw, I use Addictive Drum software and there is nothing "fake" about it. All the drum patterns are played by a real drummer on real drums. The drums are meticulously recorded with studio grade microphones, and many of the drum samples/patterns are played by world class drummers(some famous).
The recording musician can then fill their tracks with multiple instances of real drums, patterns, etc.
There is nothing fake about any of it.
We pay good money for quality software which allows home studio musicians the luxury of having a real drummer play in our songs.
Here is a link that explains in detail how real drumming software is, it's not a drum machine.

https://www.xlnaudio.com/products/addictive_drums_2

and don't forget, Santa still hands out coal in stockings.

Well, if the software was so great, I wouldn't know it was programmed, correct? Your argument fails for anyone with a proper ear for music.

You're posting for feedback and critic, correct? You should appreciate this from someone who cares about music. Your songs and playing is good.

Get a drummer, it will do wonders for your music. You'll also be able to play out live and bring the great sounding keys to a wonderfully appreciative audience and you'll gain traction quickly. It's much needed in today's world of fake music, loops, samples and other nonsense that keeps music dumbed down. Just say no.

[sphinx]

I have to say, that there is way more advanced drum programming software than Addictive Drums, which has a relatively limited sample-pool and therefore number of variations in sound in comparison to others like FXPansion BFD and Toontrack Superior, to name but a few. In addition to that it's also heavily pre-processed, so it kinda sounds like a modern record to start with, involving quite some EQ and compression, which of course makes it easy for the inexperienced to time-restricted producer to get a 'polished' or 'pop-compatible' sound, for instance.

Other products require much more work to obtain results that are definitely more musical, and 'humane' to the ear. There's also specialized libraries that have a puristic acoustic/folk/jazz aesthetic.
A raison d'être for these things lies also in the actualities of media composition and also commercials, where a studio has to reproduce a given sound on a recording that can not be licensed for various reasons for the backdrop of an advertising clip. In this scenario not only are deadlines insane (e.g. sometimes fully producing 40 seconds of music in an afternoon), but constant last-minute changes and modifications are requested by clients and agencies, so they have to be done in mockup style to be changed around in the proverbial moment's notice.(these films are usually re-cut several times, before they are on air)

[Top Cat]

I have to say, that there is way more advanced drum programming software than Addictive Drums, which has a relatively limited sample-pool and therefore number of variations in sound in comparison to others like FXPansion BFD and Toontrack Superior, to name but a few. In addition to that it's also heavily pre-processed, so it kinda sounds like a modern record to start with, involving quite some EQ and compression, which of course makes it easy for the inexperienced to time-restricted producer to get a 'polished' or 'pop-compatible' sound, for instance.

Other products require much more work to obtain results that are definitely more musical, and 'humane' to the ear. There's also specialized libraries that have a puristic acoustic/folk/jazz aesthetic.
A raison d'être for these things lies also in the actualities of media composition and also commercials, where a studio has to reproduce a given sound on a recording that can not be licensed for various reasons for the backdrop of an advertising clip. In this scenario not only are deadlines insane (e.g. sometimes fully producing 40 seconds of music in an afternoon), but constant last-minute changes and modifications are requested by clients and agencies, so they have to be done in mockup style to be changed around in the proverbial moment's notice.(these films are usually re-cut several times, before they are on air)

I kind of have to disagree with you in regards to the limitation of Addictive Drums, and believe as in many things it comes down to personal preference.
Both BFD and Toontrack are excellent drum software. Before deciding on what I wanted I auditioned both of them and finally settled on Addictive Drums 1 & 2.
I like the AD packs and have 4 or 5 of them which have different sampled drum kits, such as FairFax Vol 2 samples of a 1960's Gretsch kit, Vol 1 Farifax, Prog AD pack, Retro AD pack.
I don't think they're overprocessed unless you want them to be.

From your comments, you sound like you know what you're talking about, and I would assume you have a background in drumming. So I can only say from my personal experience as a home studio musician and not being a drummer by any means, I like the sound and the selection of drum kits, samples and patterns available for me.
But I appreciate your comments, and as I said, I'd be happy using any of the other software had I not chosen Addictive Drums first.

[sphinx]

I was just reacting to the other commenter who is kinda known for his puristic stance on these matters, and wanted to state that there are also various products, that can produce a broad spectrum of results.(I also realize that this is in all probability a completely futile endeavor )
And as far as limitations go, Addictive Drums used to have a core sample set around 3 GB, at least that's what I have on my computer. And while I have seen that they have expanded their palette somewhat, which is a natural development in this very contested market, my current BFD folder, that has various expansion libraries has around 180 GB, to put this into perspective. Of course, this is not to be measured in a linear fashion, but the amount of detail that can be captured is of course connected to the size of the actual recordings.

And I wasn't about to slag AD off as a product family, but just voiced our team's impressions when the studio I worked at bought them initially. They appeared to be more polished 'out of the box' (of course you can switch the processing off later) than other libraries, which can be good or bad, depending on the music creation process and other parameters.

Personally, I don't have a drumming background per se, but have programmed music (including drum tracks) since the mid nineties, so there is a familiarity with the evolution of modern music production involved.

<sorry for taking this off-topic into gear minutiae, btw>

[Top Cat]

I was just reacting to the other commenter who is kinda known for his puristic stance on these matters, and wanted to state that there are also various products, that can produce a broad spectrum of results.(I also realize that this is in all probability a completely futile endeavor )
And as far as limitations go, Addictive Drums used to have a core sample set around 3 GB, at least that's what I have on my computer. And while I have seen that they have expanded their palette somewhat, which is a natural development in this very contested market, my current BFD folder, that has various expansion libraries has around 180 GB, to put this into perspective. Of course, this is not to be measured in a linear fashion, but the amount of detail that can be captured is of course connected to the size of the actual recordings.

And I wasn't about to slag AD off as a product family, but just voiced our team's impressions when the studio I worked at bought them initially. They appeared to be more polished 'out of the box' (of course you can switch the processing off later) than other libraries, which can be good or bad, depending on the music creation process and other parameters.

Personally, I don't have a drumming background per se, but have programmed music (including drum tracks) since the mid nineties, so there is a familiarity with the evolution of modern music production involved.

<sorry for taking this off-topic into gear minutiae, btw>

Thanks, we're all good, in fact I'm going to revisit BFD and listen again. As far as drums go, I need all the help I can get..lol

So, in order to get back on topic, did you give the Bill Bressler link album the OP posted a listen?

[Skullhead]

I was just reacting to the other commenter who is kinda known for his puristic stance on these matters, and wanted to state that there are also various products, that can produce a broad spectrum of results.(I also realize that this is in all probability a completely futile endeavor )
And as far as limitations go, Addictive Drums used to have a core sample set around 3 GB, at least that's what I have on my computer. And while I have seen that they have expanded their palette somewhat, which is a natural development in this very contested market, my current BFD folder, that has various expansion libraries has around 180 GB, to put this into perspective. Of course, this is not to be measured in a linear fashion, but the amount of detail that can be captured is of course connected to the size of the actual recordings.

And I wasn't about to slag AD off as a product family, but just voiced our team's impressions when the studio I worked at bought them initially. They appeared to be more polished 'out of the box' (of course you can switch the processing off later) than other libraries, which can be good or bad, depending on the music creation process and other parameters.

Personally, I don't have a drumming background per se, but have programmed music (including drum tracks) since the mid nineties, so there is a familiarity with the evolution of modern music production involved.

<sorry for taking this off-topic into gear minutiae, btw>

People spent incredible # of hours learning software, programming virtual drums and so forth.... along with spending lots of money. If you spent that much time and money on a real drum kit, you could have mastered the instruments in an equal amount of time. Then you could gig, play live, record your own stuff or record stuff for others. All these "virtual" programs etc are nothing more than pretending. Why any true music lover could trivialize the skills and efforts of a real drummer is beyond me.

It's important also to understand that when you replace a drummer with software, it actually discourages young drummers from learning to play because the message you are sending is that they are not needed, outdated and obsolete. Is this really the world you want to live in?

What instrument do you play? Are you ok with your instrument being obsoleted by software? How about the new virtual vocalists. You just pick the style, type in the words, program the melody and wha la! Perfect vocals for your virtual music. Coming soon.

[aith01]

People spent incredible # of hours learning software, programming virtual drums and so forth.... along with spending lots of money. If you spent that much time and money on a real drum kit, you could have mastered the instruments in an equal amount of time. Then you could gig, play live, record your own stuff or record stuff for others. All these "virtual" programs etc are nothing more than pretending. Why any true music lover could trivialize the skills and efforts of a real drummer is beyond me.

It's important also to understand that when you replace a drummer with software, it actually discourages young drummers from learning to play because the message you are sending is that they are not needed, outdated and obsolete. Is this really the world you want to live in?

No one here is trivializing real drummers. We just don't all buy into your idea of what all music "should" be like.

[Skullhead]

No one here is trivializing real drummers. We just don't all buy into your idea of what all music "should" be like.

When you use a drum machine or program beats, you are trivializing drummers and sending a message that they are not needed, outdated and worthless. Everyone knows music is in a dire situation these days. Why be complicit to it's demise?

[aith01]

When you use a drum machine or program beats, you are trivializing drummers and sending a message that they are not needed, outdated and worthless. Everyone knows music is in a dire situation these days. Why be complicit to it's demise?

I disagree. There is some beautiful music out there that was made without any real live humans behind a drum kit. There are entire genres built around the concept of electronic instruments (i.e. no physical drums). Endorsing music made like this doesn't preclude appreciation or enjoyment of drummers, and it certainly doesn't mean people think they're worthless. There are still young, talented musicians out there playing real drums. Have you heard Ronald Bruner Jr. with Kamasi Washington's band on their album Heaven And Earth?

[interbellum]

When you use a drum machine or program beats, you are trivializing drummers and sending a message that they are not needed, outdated and worthless. Everyone knows music is in a dire situation these days. Why be complicit to it's demise?

I was just listening to Normal Boy again. Fine album!
Reading this remark from Skullhead reminds me of the early days of the Mellotron and synthesizers. Initially they weren't tolerated by the Musicians' Union because they "were sending a message" that real orchestra-musicians weren't "needed, outdated and worthless".
http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/sa...xties-style/46

[Lebofsky]

I think we can and should agree on the following:

1. Yes there's some wonderful techno music out there with fake drums. That's a befitting aesthetic preference for that genre.
2. But if you're creating music in the classic/prog rock genre, real drums are almost always better than fake drums.
3. However, depending on production and the listener, the musical spirit of the final results can transcend whatever artistic choices or arbitrarily perceived shortcomings.

ANYWAY... as it happens Bill and I played together back in high school! As a kid he would absorb prog like a sponge, learning things like the intro to Firth of Fifth by ear and performing them flawlessly. "Normal Boy" indeed.

- Matt

[Jacob Holm-Lupo]

I’m on the record as a huge Bressler fan, and I actually think the drums are really well done, very nicely programmed without going over the top, they add to that art rock vibe that balances out the prog so nicely. And dude, it’s almost 2019, no one cares if drums are electric, acoustic, programmed, played or all of the above as long as they sound good!

[aith01]

I’m on the record as a huge Bressler fan, and I actually think the drums are really well done, very nicely programmed without going over the top, they add to that art rock vibe that balances out the prog so nicely. And dude, it’s almost 2019, no one cares if drums are electric, acoustic, programmed, played or all of the above as long as they sound good!

Right on, brother.

[Bill Bressler]

My album is now available at Bandcamp: https://billbressler.bandcamp.com/album/normal-boy-2 and you get a cool digital booklet with your download!

[arabicadabra]

Just bought it. Put me in the camp that loves it. The drums don't bother me at all and that's my instrument. Very cool album, really good songs and FUN to listen to. Thanks for sharing it here.