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Thread: Buffy Season 5 Episode 16 "The Body"

  1. #226
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    I'd only seen Fran Kranz in another of Whedon's, The Cabin In The Woods, which was on TV here last year. Amy Acker was in that too.

  2. #227
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    Posting here because there was some discussion of it, but The Nevers has been dumped by HBO. I didn't watch it but it seemed to have been wrecked by all the Whedon stuff. But the bigger story to me is that they've even removed it and many other shows from their streaming portal altogether.

    https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/wes...ed-1235458657/

    From the link..."The removal of shows from HBO Max means WB Discovery is able to save money in residuals paid to cast and crews of productions, on top of the money saved by not continuing with the shows at all."

  3. #228
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    'Tis a pity because The Nevers, if stripped of the Whedon stuff, had great potential.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  4. #229
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    Posting here because there was some discussion of it, but The Nevers has been dumped by HBO. I didn't watch it but it seemed to have been wrecked by all the Whedon stuff. But the bigger story to me is that they've even removed it and many other shows from their streaming portal altogether.

    https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/wes...ed-1235458657/

    From the link..."The removal of shows from HBO Max means WB Discovery is able to save money in residuals paid to cast and crews of productions, on top of the money saved by not continuing with the shows at all."
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    'Tis a pity because The Nevers, if stripped of the Whedon stuff, had great potential.
    I thought the issues with the show came from COVID, as well as Whedon being removed. But last I heard about it, they were moving on without him.

    A lot of stuff going on at WB/HBO, and none of it good.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  5. #230
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    ^I know he left the show somewhere in 2020, but the promo was all 'Joss Whedon's new show' which surely didn't help its chances.

  6. #231
    A lot of stuff going on at WB/HBO, and none of it good.
    This is reality. They also killed Warrior Nun, Westworld, and a lot more. It is ridiculous. As to the Nevers, Whedon was out already anyway.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  7. #232
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    Saw this and thought it was an interesting read- Buffy/Wynonna Earp related, from a few weeks ago.

    https://screenrant.com/joss-whedon-s...online-debate/

    I'm inclined to agree with Andras really. There's a lot more discussion if you click on the actual Twitter links.

    Of all the various 90s/00s shows I've watched since Buffy, only Twin Peaks came close to matching it for me (and I was not a fan of that show's ultimate ending, sadly). The same is true of Whedon's other shows- I don't think Firefly matched up and Dollhouse certainly didn't.

  8. #233
    I have interacted with emtothea (Emily Andras) a number of times. She is without doubt a thoughtful, intelligent and caring individual and is a superb showrunner- the people who worked with her on Wynonna Earp love her- from the technical people to the actors. She was making what I think is an obvious point- you can enjoy Buffy without having to worship at the altar of Whedon. For years I posted regularly on whedonesque, but never ever was one who thought Whedon was God, as so many did there. I saw real problems in the Buffyverse, long before the facts came out about his treatment of actors and his cheating on his wife. For but one example, even though the show was set in southern CA, where were any LatinX characters? Where were African American characters? The first one on the show was a caricature of a Caribbean woman, complete with faux patois. The first other black characters were evil- Mr. Trick, for example.

    But anyway. I think that people have such a high opinion of Andras that they read this as somehow excusing Whedon's behavior, which was clearly not the point she was making. She was just saying she saw much to admire in the program itself. And if we were to reject all programs with shitty show runners, then many programs would never be on at all- Lost, Sleepy Hollow, Batwoman, Angel and Buffy, and we can keep going.

    Now, what to me is more exciting is that Andras has a new show coming, called Carpe Demon. It is about a woman who is a suburban mom but who used to be a demon hunter and how she is called back to taking on that role. Based on a book series- Wynonna Earp was based on a comic. So, there is that to look forward to.

    https://variety.com/2023/tv/global/d...ix-1235642464/

    "Carpe Demon" is a one-hour genre series based on the best-selling novels by Julie Kenner about a frazzled suburban Mom with a loving husband, two kids, and one massive secret: she used to be a "Demon Hunter." Out of practice and overwhelmed, she has no choice but to get back in the game when her supernatural past comes calling. "Todd and Julie have an incredibly exciting development slate, which we think has massive international potential," Emerson said. "We look forward to working with them more closely going forward and are delighted to be kicking things off with Emily Andras and Carpe Demon for Paramount+ Canada.”
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    I think that people have such a high opinion of Andras that they read this as somehow excusing Whedon's behavior, which was clearly not the point she was making.
    Indeed and it's inexcusable. He himself put the final nail in the coffin with that Variety interview he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana5140 View Post
    And if we were to reject all programs with shitty show runners, then many programs would never be on at all- Lost, Sleepy Hollow, Batwoman, Angel and Buffy, and we can keep going.
    Yes, and it's the same in music. I think of people like Phil Spector, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry, James Brown, Ike Turner etc. who seem to be worse than Whedon. Yet you can't wipe the music they were responsible for from history.

  10. #235
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Separating art from the artist has always been a problem. There's so much egregious behavior that gets allowed or swept under the rug. I'm inconsistent, there are those that get a total ban from me and some that get a pass. I wish The Nevers had a chance to breathe and go on but it got caught up in the slaughter at HBO/Discovery/MAX. I see that Wynonna Earp is over on Netflix and I should give that a try. Too many series, too little time, even for a retired old man like me.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  11. #236
    The Nevers also got caught in the slaughter that was Whedon. I watched it, but it did not engage me as it was really just Buffy set back a hundred years. But let me strongly encourage you to watch Wynonna Earp- it is a show where Andras clearly respected her audience and never let them down. Plus, it's Wayhaught relation put paid to what Whedon did to Willow and Tara.



    And don't take this the wrong way, but it has the by far the sexiest and most graphic scene ever shown on network television, ever. No question. It was a risk, which worked. Listening to the actors discuss how that scene came about, how it was filmed, what it meant to the story arc and to viewers, was a masterclass in breaking a scene. And this one mattered to the arc of 4 seasons.

    BTW, the show ended after 4 seasons with the perfect episode and the perfect final scene.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  12. #237
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    If they stick the landing, I'm down for it.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  13. #238
    Trust me, it did. That final episode was about as perfect a finale as I have ever seen. It never went wrong. And I will tell you this, without giving anything away- bulletproof vest!

    Watch it- it's that good.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  14. #239
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    J. August Richards got married and a few Buffy/Angel people were at the wedding, including Whedon...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comme...ied_and_a_few/

  15. #240
    Saw that- but notably, these were the people that Whedon used to invite over to his house to play act- the Denisovs (Aly Hannigan and Aexis Denisov), Amy Acker. Not any of the other actors, who are the ones with accusations against him.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  16. #241
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    I was surprised Whedon was there.

    This has just been announced:

    Original Buffy cast returning for a new Audible series focused on Spike featuring James Marsters, Charisma Carpenter, Anthony Head, Juliet Landau, Emma Caulfield & more! Written by Amber Benson


    https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comme...turning_for_a/

  17. #242
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    ^This Audible thing is out in a few days and there was a promo on Instagram.

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cx_Hr...M2ODFkZg%3D%3D

    I suppose the appeal is that this is the first time any of these have played these characters in about twenty years.

  18. #243
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    Interesting concept BUT when in the scheme of Buffy does this take place. Because a couple of those characters are dead.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  19. #244
    It's an alternate universe. For one, Tara is alive. And if I understand, there might be more than one Tara.

    Here is an excellent interview with Amber Benson: https://variety.com/2023/tv/features...ra-1235749663/
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  20. #245
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    ^Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    Interesting concept BUT when in the scheme of Buffy does this take place. Because a couple of those characters are dead.
    I guess the timeline is jumbled as a result of the events in Chosen and the total destruction of Sunnydale.

    Cordelia's death was the worst of all these IMHO, because it was halfway through that last Angel season but barely mentioned thereafter. Angel briefly mentions it once or twice with her 'visions' passed on to him, but none of Cordelia's other friends/colleagues ever register it. ISTR Charisma Carpenter saying that she only agreed to return if Cordelia wasn't killed off and then that scene was added in, last minute.

  21. #246
    In the new series, Cordelia is the Slayer in a world where Buffy never existed. And in her world, a supercharged Drusilla is the big bad. I do not know anything about Tara yet, but in an interview Amber Benson said that Tara had a role she "could sink her teeth into," making me think we might see a vampire Tara. The series will be available tomorrow on Audible.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  22. #247
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    Anyone heard that Audible Slayers thing? Reviews have been...mixed.

    I heard yesterday that there is to be a Wynonna Earp TV movie as well.

  23. #248
    I have heard Slayers, which was created by Amber Benson and heavily features Charisma Carpenter. I think it is good and it was a great way for Amber to include people that were hurt by Whedon and reclaim Tara for herself. Amber is no dummy.

    Also, I also got the word on Wynonna Earp; in fact, I have a response from Emily Andras to a tweet I sent when I got that news! It will be free for view on Tubi, and it will feature all 4 main characters and their actors- Melanie Scrofano, Dom Provost-Chalkley, Kat Barrell and Tim Rozon. The script is entitled Vengeance, and is set some time in the future from when the show ended. I am interested in how the Wayhaught will be presented, given Dom is no longer goes by Dominique, is non-binary in real life, has cut their hair off, and has not acted since the show ended. Kat had a kid, too. Scrofano is profane as hell in real life and hysterically funny. This should be fun!
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

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