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Thread: Saga

  1. #101
    Such a shame they didn't play in the USA (save CTTE) on their farewell. Here's hoping they either reverse course, or do some festival one offs. Great band.

  2. #102
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interbellum View Post
    Nice to see Rochon on an album by Ronnie Fray And The Panama Bandits, called "Progressively Basic".
    That must have been the "Big In Japan" part.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    That must have been the "Big In Japan" part.
    Progressively Basic sold 2 million copies in Japan.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I think there is a difference for those of us who've been life-long Saga fans and those who discovered them later in their career. Many of the albums people say they don't care for I love, such as Behavior is one of my favorites, as is Wildest Dreams for example. I think it may be due to having lived through it's release and played it when it first came out, and of course there are always nostalgic memories included with each album. Whereas people who listen to them later are listening when Saga was writing and recording in a different time and so your impressions of it will be different.
    Or, I'm just a sucker for Prog bands (and others) navigating the high tech 80's with digital reverbs, fake drums and crystalline guitar sounds. Power Windows is one of my favorite albums for instance. More is more in the 80's!


    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I think it's good remember the 80's were a tough time for musicians, there was a mixing pot of genres, none of which Saga clearly fit, and the struggle continued into the 90's when grunge became popular.
    It may be why some of the albums were not consistent, as Saga never sold out in their music, but continued to write quality music with thoughtful lyrics, however I do believe at times their music was composed as to be relevant to the times.
    Well put. I find with FULL CIRCLE and after, they kind of got back to a pseudo WORLDS APART-like connection and made solid albums thereafter.

    Quote Originally Posted by roylayer View Post
    Generation 13 isn't mentioned often enough around here. Definitely one of their best and stacks up well against other great prog albums. I don't really care about it being a concept album (although I'm sure that many do), but it is more adventurous musically than some of the albums before or after it. Check it out, Chris.
    It falls in such a weird place in their discography. It's so ambitious yet it's only one year after the meh STEEL UMBRELLAS and prior to what many think is their worst PAIN & THE PLEASURE. But then just 2 years later they put out the brilliant FULL CIRCLE which strikes a great balance between timelessness, proginess and good songs and sets them on course for the next 7+ albums.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    it makes sense. You're spreading the given recording out over a larger space, so the stylus that cuts the vinyl is, presumably able to cut a more complex groove. It's the same principle with magnetic tape. Anyone remember how when you recording anything off the TV on your VCR, the picture/sound quality was invariably better with the faster speeds? And if the tape somehow got damaged, at the faster speed, the resultant glitch would be smaller, too.
    SP, LP and SLP! SP was best quality and I think it meant "standard play".

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVander View Post
    Reading this thread got me thinking about Saga. I realized I tend to forget Jim Gilmour didn't join until Silent Knight and they had two different keyboard players - Peter Rochon and Gregg Chadd - on the first two albums. Typically their names didn't come up in this thread either - their contributions are largely forgotten even though obviously they played on some classic stuff, and with Saga's music being so keyboard-heavy they are quite central to the sound of those albums. Rochon also co-wrote several songs on both the debut and Images at Twilight (though he didn't play on it).
    Even Wikipedia doesn't mention them at all, other than in the lists of lineups and band members.

    Anybody know what the deal is with those two? Why did they leave, and what did they do after?
    All I know is Peter Rochon attended 3RDegree's concert in Cornwall, Ontario last May and I was kind of freaked out that a member of Saga was there. I didn't go into my "Saga phase" yet so I didn't realize he was "only" on the first album but it was still cool!

  5. #105
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    Count me in as a huge Saga fan from the late 1980s on. Sadly, they're virtually unknown in the UK, despite being huge in continental Europe. For all the keyboard heaviness of their music, it's always been Ian Crichton's incredible guitar playing that's been the definitive factor in their sound for me. A criminally-underrated player and a huge influence on my own playing.

  6. #106
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Hey guys.

    Congratulations, this thread has made me interested in trying out Saga again. So a quick history:

    The first album I bought was Worlds Apart. In the end the only song I liked from that was "On the Loose." I got Heads or Tales and felt the whole album had a Fixx vibe to it, which surprised me a bit, and at the time I was out of my Fixx phase so I lost interest in checking out the rest of the band's output.

    Fast forward. On impulse I bought Trust later on. Except for "That's As Far As I'll Go" and the title track, still meh. Those two songs did get a lot of repeat listens, though.

    Then later I happened upon a live version of "Corkentellis" (from 10,000 Days) on YouTube and bought the studio version MP3. Wow. REALLY liked that a lot and replayed it over and over again. However, my past experience with Saga made me reluctant to check out any more of it and figured "Corkentellis" was a fluke.

    Based on this thread, though, I went and bought the rest of 10,000 Days (and relistened to Trust) and discovered I'm enjoying both of them more. I'd really like to try out another album from their later period. Does anyone have any recommendations as to what I should try next?
    Last edited by ThomasKDye; 12-26-2018 at 11:23 AM.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    Based on this thread, though, I went and bought the rest of 10,000 Days (and relistened to Trust) and discovered I'm enjoying both of them more. I'd really like to try out another album from their later period. Does anyone have any recommendations as to what I should try next?
    Apart from Worlds Apart, I usually like a third to half the songs per album, but I like those songs enough that I'm still very happy I found them.

    An exception is Network, which slowly drew me in to like the whole album over time.

  8. #108
    Jon Neudorf
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    I recommend 20/20. A real awesome proggy album.

    Jon

  9. #109
    Behaviour is vastly underated. Not that commercial at all. On the contrary it contains lots of interesting arrangements and strong songs. Listen to Your Heart, Take a Chance, Out of the Shadows and Goodbye are all top notch Saga music.

  10. #110
    Member Paulrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    Behaviour is vastly underated. Not that commercial at all.
    LOL, whu...?



    Then there's this:



    Certainly all the trademark Saga ingredients are there but the arrangements are very linear and the songs sit almost entirely on top of the rhythm track. Several songs are trying hard to ride the Simple Minds coattails, not that there's anything wrong with that. But to say this album isn't at least trying to be more commercial simply flies in the face of the facts.
    I'm holding out for the Wilson-mixed 5.1 super-duper walletbuster special anniversary extra adjectives edition.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulrus View Post
    LOL, whu...?



    Then there's this:



    Certainly all the trademark Saga ingredients are there but the arrangements are very linear and the songs sit almost entirely on top of the rhythm track. Several songs are trying hard to ride the Simple Minds coattails, not that there's anything wrong with that. But to say this album isn't at least trying to be more commercial simply flies in the face of the facts.
    It’s not THAT commercial was my comment. What Do I Know, sure. But what makes LtYH more commercial than The Flyer?

    And I cannot see the Simple Minds resemblance anywhere.

  12. #112
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    ^ I like the album - I don’t really give a fig if someone else doesn’t. It’s not going to change my opinion.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVander View Post
    Reading this thread got me thinking about Saga. I realized I tend to forget Jim Gilmour didn't join until Silent Knight and they had two different keyboard players - Peter Rochon and Gregg Chadd - ...

    Anybody know what the deal is with those two? Why did they leave, and what did they do after?
    They didn't get along with Chadd and according to some sources most of the keyboards on "Images At Twilight" were played by Jim Crichton and Michael Sadler.
    There's at least his vocals on the album on "Hot To Cold".

    Chadd played with Max Webster (replacing Dave Stone) on the "Universal Juvelines" tour during the fall of 1980 but was replaced by the returning Terry Watkinson by the end of the year.

  14. #114
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    ^ I like the album - I don’t really give a fig if someone else doesn’t. It’s not going to change my opinion.
    I LOVE the album....
    Soundcloud page: Richard Hermans, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice YouTube: [https://www.youtube.com/@richardhermans4457

  15. #115
    We need all the full Saga catalog to be included on Spotify. Scattershot selection currently.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasKDye View Post
    Hey guys.

    Does anyone have any recommendations as to what I should try next?
    Of the "latter" material, I know all except 10,000 DAYS and I think FULL CIRCLE is pretty solid. A few poppier ditties but good stuff. Of course the prog concept album is GENERATION 13 but I'm not sure if that counts as latter days.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    ^ I like the album - I don’t really give a fig if someone else doesn’t. It’s not going to change my opinion.
    the closing tracks Here I Am & Goodbye (Once Upon A Time) are a powerful way to end an album. my favorite tracks off Behaviour

  18. #118
    I’m not a BEHAVIOUR hater but that album, WILDEST DREAMS & ...THROWING SHAPES are very 80’s laden with keyboards galore, drum machines or heavily effected drums and other hallmarks of the age. Many albums by many bands are “marred” by this mindset to making albums but I like it for what it was. YMMV greatly!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #119
    They didn't get along with Chadd and according to some sources most of the keyboards on "Images At Twilight" were played by Jim Crichton and Michael Sadler.
    Including the solos?

    There's at least his vocals on the album on "Hot To Cold".
    What about You're Not Alone?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    I’m not a BEHAVIOUR hater but that album, WILDEST DREAMS & ...THROWING SHAPES are very 80’s laden with keyboards galore, drum machines or heavily effected drums and other hallmarks of the age. Many albums by many bands are “marred” by this mindset to making albums but I like it for what it was. YMMV greatly!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Ah, but for me ...Throwing Shapes was very much a return to form after the detour in Snoozeville that was the previous two albums. There's some absolutely great tunes on Shapes, all topped off with superlative playing - not least some of Ian Crichton's finest guitar work. It's a bit of an overlooked gem in Saga's back-catalogue, imho.

  21. #121
    I really like Behavior, especially songs like "Listen To Your Heart", and "You and the Night".
    This was the first album where they sang about romantic love. Before they always purposely avoided the topic. I actually really like the atmospheric production throughout the album.

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVander View Post
    Including the solos?



    What about You're Not Alone?
    Are there really any "big" synth solos on "Images At Twilight" in the vein of Rochon's Moog solo on "Humble Stance" for example? I'm not saying there isn't but I can't remember.

    His backing vocals are most likely on "You're Not Alone" too.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    This was the first album where they sang about romantic love. Before they always purposely avoided the topic.
    Rush held out until 1987 or 1993, depending on your interpretation. We can forgive three songs out of 19 albums worth of songs...

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_runningfox View Post
    Ah, but for me ...Throwing Shapes was very much a return to form after the detour in Snoozeville that was the previous two albums. There's some absolutely great tunes on Shapes, all topped off with superlative playing - not least some of Ian Crichton's finest guitar work. It's a bit of an overlooked gem in Saga's back-catalogue, imho.
    I agree. I find the first 4 songs very strong as well as "Giant". Strong in the sense of songs not "prog". But I'd still say that album is very 80's sounding meaning, sequenced, reverbs, mix, etc. Return to form I'd say happened more on SECURITY OF ILLUSION or FULL CIRCLE.

    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    Rush held out until 1987 or 1993, depending on your interpretation. We can forgive three songs out of 19 albums worth of songs...
    Well you have the early "I want to get laid" songs but "love songs" really only "Tears" was a "love song" and "Entre Nous" were "relationship song" of which there'd be plenty more like "Open Secrets" (my fav), "Cold Fire", etc.

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by 3RDegree_Robert View Post
    Well you have the early "I want to get laid" songs but "love songs" really only "Tears" was a "love song" and "Entre Nous" were "relationship song" of which there'd be plenty more like "Open Secrets" (my fav), "Cold Fire", etc.
    'Tears" doesn't count! (But I forgot about "Entre Nous".) "Open Secrets" took a long time to grow on me despite incredible playing because the lyrics don't flow with the song well - too many words - the first time Rush did that. There weren't plenty more, though. "Speed of Love" and "Cold Fire" are it. Maybe "Ghost of a Chance" as well but that is about the difficulty in finding love. Six songs out of over 200!

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