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Thread: Camel - Royal Albert Hall 2018 - Blu-ray & DVD

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisXymphonia View Post
    It might just be me but what is the point of having a live DVD in 5.1 ? It is not that they can put certain instruments or parts somewhere else in the soundfield spectrum. It would be odd to hear a certain guitar part suddenly from the right back corner for instance or certain backing vocal parts. With a live recording there is just a small bit you can do to enhance the experience in 5.1 and that is to put audience / ambient sound across the 5.1 sound picture, for the band you are pretty much stuck to the a stereo mix IMHO.
    It's not just you, I don't see much point in it either.

  2. #202
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    i'm also don't see some sort of problem in his playing...his tone and prhasing stil impeccable. his emotion in playing is fantastic. he is still a king of melody. sure, this isn't the 70's after all...but for me anyway he is still one of the kind

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisXymphonia View Post
    It might just be me but what is the point of having a live DVD in 5.1 ? It is not that they can put certain instruments or parts somewhere else in the soundfield spectrum. It would be odd to hear a certain guitar part suddenly from the right back corner for instance or certain backing vocal parts. With a live recording there is just a small bit you can do to enhance the experience in 5.1 and that is to put audience / ambient sound across the 5.1 sound picture, for the band you are pretty much stuck to the a stereo mix IMHO.

    5.1 mixing is only really musically interesting with studio recordings and when done properly (think Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here for instance) it can be a eargasmic experience.
    Surround sound doesn't require the mix to feature instruments panned hard to the back (i.e. placed behind the listener) any more than stereo requires instruments to be planned hard left or hard right.

    What it does allow is the bringing of instruments forad of the left-right axis. Adding to the left-right, a front-back space into the audio "image". Any recording can benefit.

    In my opinion live or studio, the instruments can be mixed across two dimensions - rather than one. In the case of a live recording there is further benefit, because audience mics capture the ambience of the hall and can really give the listener the impression of "being in the room".

    I think it's a shame that Camel didn't do this - but I guess the budget did not stretch.

    I am still very happy with the package!

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigelyfox View Post
    Are you really glad that Andy continues playing "even if it causes him pain and discomfort"? As you said, " it's disappointing to say the least", I do wonder why? That sounded rather harsh to me...
    FWIW I don't think his illness has affected his playing very much at all.
    Yes,I am glad that he continues to play through any discomfort that might affect his precision as a musician, especially if it still brings him and fans joy. As noted by many here, they still enjoy the music of Camel and may accept the timing issues to get the performance of these songs. My statement about disappointment is that I would prefer his health issues to NOT affect his playing and for a better performance but if that is truly the cause, so be it. Not trying to be harsh but as a musician, I want precision and can be disappointed if it's not there. If you are correct that his illness does not affect his playing then what do you attribute that to? To me, it is clear to me that there are real timing issues in this performance.
    Last edited by hewhoknows; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:41 PM.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by hewhoknows View Post
    To me, it is clear to me that there are real timing issues in this performance.
    I didn't spot anything awry. Can you give a couple of the worst examples?

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by hewhoknows View Post
    Yes,I am glad that he continues to play through any discomfort that might affect his precision as a musician, especially if it still brings him and fans joy. As noted by many here, they still enjoy the music of Camel and may accept the timing issues to get the performance of these songs. My statement about disappointment is that I would prefer his health issues to NOT affect his playing and for a better performance but if that is truly the cause, so be it. Not trying to be harsh but as a musician, I want precision and can be disappointed if it's not there. If you are correct that his illness does not affect his playing then what do you attribute that to? To me, it is clear to me that there are real timing issues in this performance.
    I didn't say "his illness does not affect his playing", I said "I don't think his illness has affected his playing very much at all." See the difference?

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by The Twickerman View Post
    I didn't spot anything awry. Can you give a couple of the worst examples?
    I will watch this again and find some. Give me a few days.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigelyfox View Post
    I didn't say "his illness does not affect his playing", I said "I don't think his illness has affected his playing very much at all." See the difference?
    Yes, I overreached on my feedback. Sorry for that.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by hewhoknows View Post
    I will watch this again and find some. Give me a few days.
    Must we really have this on the forum? Please don't post this info. It might only be me, but I'd rather not know. It's like, if you don't know something, it doesn't bother you. I just feel it could spoil some people's enjoyment. Puts me off thinking about it tbh. I don't get pleasure looking out for faults. Too anorakish for me! There's always PM's for those who want to know.
    There are lots of band's performances that aren't 100% perfect, some are even dubbed on recordings to make them sound better. Sometimes I wonder if the 'warts and all' approach is better!

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squigelyfox View Post
    Must we really have this on the forum? Please don't post this info. It might only be me, but I'd rather not know. It's like, if you don't know something, it doesn't bother you. I just feel it could spoil some people's enjoyment. Puts me off thinking about it tbh. I don't get pleasure looking out for faults. Too anorakish for me! There's always PM's for those who want to know.
    There are lots of band's performances that aren't 100% perfect, some are even dubbed on recordings to make them sound better. Sometimes I wonder if the 'warts and all' approach is better!

    I couldn't agree more. I really wouldn't advise anyone going through life focusing on finding faults.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigelyfox View Post
    Must we really have this on the forum? Please don't post this info. It might only be me, but I'd rather not know. It's like, if you don't know something, it doesn't bother you. I just feel it could spoil some people's enjoyment. Puts me off thinking about it tbh. I don't get pleasure looking out for faults. Too anorakish for me! There's always PM's for those who want to know.
    There are lots of band's performances that aren't 100% perfect, some are even dubbed on recordings to make them sound better. Sometimes I wonder if the 'warts and all' approach is better!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hour Candle View Post
    I couldn't agree more. I really wouldn't advise anyone going through life focusing on finding faults.
    I love live music for its imperfections (Focus Live at the Rainbow and Seconds Out have more than a few howlers). It doesn't spoil it for me at all.

    As a musician myself, I didn't notice anything that seemed "wrong" - but plenty of expression. I'm curious to know what hewhoknows considers to be wrong. I wonder is it just a matter of taste? i.e. that he doesn't like the interpretation and/or improvisation... fascinated to know.

    Can I suggest that, if you don't want to know - don't read the response?

  12. #212
    Whilst on the subject, there are loads of faults on the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway too, and Stagnation - if you listen. They are still wonderful.

    ANd no, I don't "go through life looking for faults", I just listen intently to music. I love it. Call me an anorak, if you like.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by The Twickerman View Post
    I love live music for its imperfections (Focus Live at the Rainbow and Seconds Out have more than a few howlers). It doesn't spoil it for me at all.

    As a musician myself, I didn't notice anything that seemed "wrong" - but plenty of expression. I'm curious to know what hewhoknows considers to be wrong. I wonder is it just a matter of taste? i.e. that he doesn't like the interpretation and/or improvisation... fascinated to know.

    Can I suggest that, if you don't want to know - don't read the response?
    You can suggest that, but I want to read a topic I am active in. It just seems like stirring up trouble to me, and possibly spoiling music for people. I'm surprised that hewhoknows needs a few days to find these problems, which obviously bother him a lot.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by hewhoknows View Post
    I will watch this again and find some. Give me a few days.
    I'm not a musician and just as a huge Camel fan i can easily heard some "flaws and flops" on this RAH gig and the Tokyo gig from the Ichigo Ichie DVD as well, but the Tokyo gig have a better performance. In contrary of some of the opinions from the friends here, the arthritis affected his skills for sure, i can hear a very different approach of his playing which we can assume came from difficulty of executing some things. But for me this don't spoils the enjoyment of the music, is just different, maybe can "shock" some fans who expect other thing (like his playing of the past), but after some hearings you get become accustomed to this.
    Last edited by Bruno Sampaio Barbosa; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:15 PM.

  15. #215
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to my Blu Ray copy when it comes from my Amazon pre-order, and I promise I will enjoy the concert and performance without worrying about all this stuff that keeps coming up in the discussion.
    I feel sorry for anyone who can't listen to music without picking it apart, and I love music and the joy it gives me to get through all the negativity that surrounds us every day via the media and world events.

    Once I get my copy I'll be back to report on all the great stuff in it.
    Last edited by Top Cat; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:52 PM.
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice Bandcamp: https://richardhermans.bandcamp.com

  16. #216
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    I watched the Moonmadness segment today and didn't notice Andy struggling with anything. All the parts were in the right places.

    <shrugs>

    Glad I didn't, honestly...

  17. #217
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    just got yesterday, Its great , if you like camel you will love it. Who cares about flaws!

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by The Twickerman View Post
    I love live music for its imperfections (Focus Live at the Rainbow and Seconds Out have more than a few howlers). It doesn't spoil it for me at all.

    As a musician myself, I didn't notice anything that seemed "wrong" - but plenty of expression. I'm curious to know what hewhoknows considers to be wrong. I wonder is it just a matter of taste? i.e. that he doesn't like the interpretation and/or improvisation... fascinated to know.

    Can I suggest that, if you don't want to know - don't read the response?
    I've taken to heart the feedback that others would not want to know about specific flaws so I will not pursue details and there was nothing egregious, just some very minor (and likely unnoticeable) timing issues. When any band is considered "tight", they are on all accents together. I just heard a few places where this wasn't exactly the case. That's as far as I will go given the feedback here. And to Sguigelyfox, it didn't bother me a lot, my initial query was initially to ask if others noticed anything. I have listened to some of the concert again and it's very enjoyable despite any of these minor things.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by hewhoknows View Post
    When any band is considered "tight", they are on all accents together. I just heard a few places where this wasn't exactly the case.
    Oddly enough, the first time I noticed such a thing on a record was the stabs in Freefall from Mirage. Love it to bits, but it is a bit sloppy! ;-)

  20. #220
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    My Amazon order has been pushed back to January 24....
    So much music....so little time....

  21. #221
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    I'm just so extremely happy and thankful that Andy is still alive and kicking and keeps blessing us with his mighty guitar

  22. #222
    Have I said this already? This is a very good BluRay (stereo-only notwithstanding).

    I confess I'm not so keen on the second set - but the first set (and first two of the second) are superb!!!!

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