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Thread: Kraan

  1. #26
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    If you like more Helmut Hattler, you can try Ali Neander who did 2 albums featuring him.
    both are very good indeed. One is a bit more understated while the other is more energetic but they are both good, modern Jazz Rock style progressive Rock
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  2. #27
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    This piece just kills!


    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
    I have been told that Live is also essential but I don't own it so can't state an opinion.
    The one essential Kraan album, to be perfectly honest. I mean, they're all quite good, but this one is outstanding for the material covered, the sound and performance - and for Hattler's absurdist humourous comments from stage. It works as a "best of" with excellent jamming added, there's an incredible feeling of joy with the musicians and the whole atmosphere just smokes. I'd actually start with this and then approach the studio records afterwards.

    Of the bonafide jazz-rock groups in (West) Germany, of which there were admittedly not too many (bands like Eiliff, Out of Focus, Brainstorm etc. were hardly 'bonafide jazz-rock' but rather progressive rock acts significantly informed by contemporary fusion antics), few were able to recreate their full force in a studio setting. Embryo, Release Music Orchestra and Passport aside, much W. German jazz-rock sounds pretty dull; Joy Unlimited, Emergency and so on.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  4. #29
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Ballistic !


  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    The one essential Kraan album, to be perfectly honest. I mean, they're all quite good, but this one is outstanding for the material covered, the sound and performance - and for Hattler's absurdist humourous comments from stage. It works as a "best of" with excellent jamming added, there's an incredible feeling of joy with the musicians and the whole atmosphere just smokes. I'd actually start with this and then approach the studio records afterwards.

    Of the bonafide jazz-rock groups in (West) Germany, of which there were admittedly not too many (bands like Eiliff, Out of Focus, Brainstorm etc. were hardly 'bonafide jazz-rock' but rather progressive rock acts significantly informed by contemporary fusion antics), few were able to recreate their full force in a studio setting. Embryo, Release Music Orchestra and Passport aside, much W. German jazz-rock sounds pretty dull; Joy Unlimited, Emergency and so on.
    There were and are a couple of bands that crosses my mind more frequently when you say German jazz rock. Kraan is the 'odd man out' in any genre, they never quite fits any bill, pop, rock, jazz, fusion, kraut.
    My suggestions:
    Passport, Doldingers bands, Joachim Kühn, Toto Blanke ‎– Electric Circus, Association P.C, Eberhard Weber, Curt Cress Clan, Volker Kriegel, Wolfgang Dauner's et cetera, Norbert Dömling, Rainer Brüninghaus, Kai Eckhardt, and many others. Trilok Gurtu, Gerry Brown and Billy Cobham lived in Germany (Hamburg mostly) and played with lots of bands because the jazzfusion scene in USA was much worse then.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Yes they are good = fusion + Steve Morse or something.
    I have both the albums featuring Hellmut.

    I have them both as well. Would like to see a third one.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rarebird View Post
    That is one of the few Kraan albums missing from my collection. The other one missing is X.
    A friend once played me some of X. I was not impressed. If I am remembering correctly, it was not a full-length LP.
    Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    A friend once played me some of X. I was not impressed. If I am remembering correctly, it was not a full-length LP.
    Correct - both impressions. Thats why it never was reissued as CD.

    The 2 Wolbrandts had abbandoned the ship, and Hellmut Hattler tried to carry on with Ingo Bishoff to earn some money. It was tough times.
    I heard them live (Copenhagen) and was dissapponted, even though they were a good live band. The sound was wrong, the singer was english, and they didn't play any old tunes. But Hellmut was his usual self, energetic and fun.
    Jan Fride Wolbrandt had a Headshop with his wife, made an album with Hellmut - Heartware (86), Hellmut also made a fusion album with guitarist Torsten DeWinkel (88), and the guitarist Peter Wolbrandt made a living as programmer.

    5 years after 'X' they teamed up again as Kraan with Joo Kraus on trumpet and keyboards and released a great live album - Live 88.


  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    There were and are a couple of bands that crosses my mind more frequently when you say German jazz rock. My suggestions: Passport, Doldingers bands, Joachim Kühn, Toto Blanke ‎– Electric Circus, Association P.C, Eberhard Weber, Curt Cress Clan, Volker Kriegel, Wolfgang Dauner's et cetera, Norbert Dömling, Rainer Brüninghaus, Kai Eckhardt, and many others. Trilok Gurtu, Gerry Brown and Billy Cobham lived in Germany (Hamburg mostly) and played with lots of bands
    Oh, this is true of course - but to be fair, a number of these weren't really "rock" at all to begin with. At their best (aka Cross Collateral), Passport were among the finest fusion acts in the whole wide world, but their appeal to a certain segment of rock audiences was almost incidental. Brüninghaus obviously started his professional recording career with Eiliff, but unlike the others in that band (who came from a blues/rock background) he was an educated jazz musician. Weber, Kriegel et al. stemmed from and belonged to the world of jazz, I think - although the general eclecticism of the 70s saw to it that even rock listeners would take an interest in some of their music. As they did with Terje Rypdal, John Surman, Charlie Mariano, Carla Bley and so on.

    Oddly, the blending of scenes here in Norway nowadays is probably the closest we'll get to anything similarly boundless, with dozens and dozens of fantastic younger jazz musicians so blatantly embracing the ways of various (progressive) rock formulas.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Oh, this is true of course - but to be fair, a number of these weren't really "rock" at all to begin with. At their best (aka Cross Collateral), Passport were among the finest fusion acts in the whole wide world, but their appeal to a certain segment of rock audiences was almost incidental. Brüninghaus obviously started his professional recording career with Eiliff, but unlike the others in that band (who came from a blues/rock background) he was an educated jazz musician. Weber, Kriegel et al. stemmed from and belonged to the world of jazz, I think - although the general eclecticism of the 70s saw to it that even rock listeners would take an interest in some of their music. As they did with Terje Rypdal, John Surman, Charlie Mariano, Carla Bley and so on.

    Oddly, the blending of scenes here in Norway nowadays is probably the closest we'll get to anything similarly boundless, with dozens and dozens of fantastic younger jazz musicians so blatantly embracing the ways of various (progressive) rock formulas.
    interesting to hear that Rock fans would not generally listen to Jazz Rock in the 70s in Norway
    Here in the US... at least in the NY Metropolitain area, we never delineated between what is now known as Jazz Rock and Symphonic Rock. It was all part of the artistic/creative/experimental Rock sounds of the early 70s. Neither Symph Weenies or the 4-letter term "prog" existed back in the first gen of progressive Rock music here in the US. My buddies and I were into Crimso, Passport, Zappa, Funkadelic, Camel, Mandrill, PFM, RTF, Osibisa, Mahavishnu and any other progressive music that rocked.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Brüninghaus
    Speaking of The Mighty Rainer, those of you who haven't checked out his album Continuum might want to do so. It's like, good, an' stuff.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    Neither Symph Weenies or the 4-letter term "prog" existed back in the first gen of progressive Rock music here in the US. .
    Were there any Jazz Weenies who wouldn't listen to Symphonic Prog?
    He did not know that the sword he'd hold, would turn his priceless empire into fool's gold...

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  13. #38
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #39
    There must’ve been at least a few.


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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Were there any Jazz Weenies who wouldn't listen to Symphonic Prog?
    the Jazz Weenies refused to listen to Miles Davis after Bitches Brew

    they also refused to listen to any Jazz musician who started using Rock music structures and/or instrumentation

    dyslexic Weenies untie!
    Last edited by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER; 11-03-2018 at 08:04 PM.
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    the Jazz Weenies refused to listen to Miles Davis after Bitches Brew

    they also refused to listen to any Jazz musician who started using Rock music structures and/or instrumentation

    dyslexic Weenies untie!
    Wow. Jazz Weenies who listened to Symphonic Progressive Rock but turned their noses up at Miles Davis and other Fusion. New York truly was a magical place in the early 70s.

  17. #42
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    Jazz Weenies shun all Rock, especially the Rock done by Jazz artists

    Symph Weenies shun all that isn't Symph, especially the Rock done by Jazz artists
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  18. #43
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    They could be brothers from another mother!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    The one essential Kraan album, to be perfectly honest. I mean, they're all quite good, but this one is outstanding for the material covered, the sound and performance - and for Hattler's absurdist humourous comments from stage. It works as a "best of" with excellent jamming added, there's an incredible feeling of joy with the musicians and the whole atmosphere just smokes. I'd actually start with this and then approach the studio records afterwards.
    I have been on the lookout to grab Live for a long time. Need to reignite my search!

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    They could be brothers from another mother!
    Tho' spermed from the same weener, thus becoming semi-tweenies.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  21. #46
    There's a lot to take, agree that the Live release, w/ Wolbrandt's fine ladies on the cover, (recorded in 74 and released in 75) is fantastic and holds up from start to finish. *&^%$##!!, it may be one of the best live albums ever made, still there's stuff on most of their studio albums that pays off big in other ways. When i had a good turntable system Wiederhoren really stood out as a superior drug, too bad the cd kinda wrecked it.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bake 1 View Post
    When i had a good turntable system Wiederhoren really stood out as a superior drug
    I think Wiederhoren may be my personal fav
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    I think Wiederhoren may be my personal fav
    It might be mine as well, probably because of my history with it.

    I had it on a cassette-tape, but wasn't very fond of it. Had a hard time with the vocals. I was very much a symph weenie at that moment. I can remember buying Jean Luc Ponty - Aurora, because I heard it from a friend, who was very much into Frank Zappa. Again, this was not a favorite album of mine. At some moment both albums started to click with me and I'm less of a symph weenie.

  24. #49
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    Never been a symphweenie, always loved Kraan.
    Probably one of the only happy 'prog' bands.

  25. #50
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    One hour Interview with Hellmut Hattler on KRAAN 12.12.2019, 19h, Radio70

    http://www.radio70.de/aktuelles.php

    Direct link: http://www.radio70.de/aktuelles.php?...2j-dolMLwRfoq0

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