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Thread: Allan Holdsworth "IOU Live In Japan 1984" limited CD/DVD set (Manifesto) - 12/7/2018

  1. #26
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Niche or not, I find the fact that even moving 1,000 copies of the late grand maestro's work is questionable to be a depressing observation. Yet another harbinger of the decline of western civilization.
    The combined fortunes of the world's 26 richest individuals reached $1.4 trillion last year the same amount as the total wealth of the 3.8 billion poorest people.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Niche or not, I find the fact that even moving 1,000 copies of the late grand maestro's work is questionable to be a depressing observation. Yet another harbinger of the decline of western civilization.
    Indeed. But as for harbingers? There are far more than this.

    Consider this: Pat Metheny has FIVE albums worth of material in the can, but hasn't released an album in 2 years (more when you consider it was live). Why no new albums? Because he's trying to figure out the best way to get them out ... in other words, how to release them to, at least, ensure recovering his costs to record and release 'em.

    And Metheny is a far bigger name than Holdsworth (I'm not going to get into the argument of who's better..i love both). So when you hear something like this...it really makes you wonder where the heck things are going....
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
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  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Indeed. But as for harbingers? There are far more than this.

    Consider this: Pat Metheny has FIVE albums worth of material in the can, but hasn't released an album in 2 years (more when you consider it was live). Why no new albums? Because he's trying to figure out the best way to get them out ... in other words, how to release them to, at least, ensure recovering his costs to record and release 'em.

    And Metheny is a far bigger name than Holdsworth (I'm not going to get into the argument of who's better..i love both). So when you hear something like this...it really makes you wonder where the heck things are going....
    Ah man...

  4. #29
    Member Mr.Krautman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkelman View Post
    Simple: they press only 1,000 copies with the DVD. They may give some to other vendors, like Wayside, to sell, but limiting the number ain't difficult at all. They could also take the approach and only sell CD/DVD version on their site.

    Why do it? Well, in a time when selling 1,000 units of something like this, which is very much a niche in a niche (as great as it is - I'll be reviewing it for sure), labels look for ways to encourage early sales in order to recoup their investment in the project.

    There are other artists I've bought over the years (Richard Thompson, Los Lobos, to name two) who released two versions of an album on initial release, one a two-disc version with extra tracks, the other the main album on a single disc only. In these times of tough sales, I think anything a label or artist can do to, at the very least, help them recoup costs is just the way it is, and I'm fine with it, largely because, when I buy stuff, I usually preorder almost from the get-go. I appreciate not everyone can do that, and it's definitely unfortunate. But it's a reflection of the industry as it is today, in particular with hard media.
    Still, I can't see the logic behind this. Even if the potential market is rather small (though selling 1000 copies WORLDWIDE for an artist like Holdsworth doesn't seem an unrealistic target) either you include the DVD in all the boxes or not at all, and sell it separately (which would be even more difficult).
    Are there so many A.H fans interested by this set who does NOT want the DVD ?
    To me it looks more like some fan-teasing method to speed up the pre-orders for the 1st batch of 1000 copies.
    ... and if (according to many posters above) the first 1000 copies won't sell, EVERY buyer will get the DVD.
    Last edited by Mr.Krautman; 10-18-2018 at 08:32 PM.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Krautman View Post
    Still, I can't understand the logic behind this. Even if the potential market is rather small (though selling 1000 copies WORLDWIDE for an artist like Holdsworth doesn't seem an unrealistic target) either you include the DVD in all the boxes or not at all, and sell it separately (which would be even more difficult).
    Are there so many A.H fans interested by this set who does NOT want the DVD ?
    To me it looks more like some fan-teasing method to speed up the pre-orders for the 1st batch of 1000 copies.
    Exactly my thoughts, and hence my earlier questions. I get that the market for this is small. You're already pressing the DVD--just include it with all the sets and price accordingly.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Krautman View Post
    To me it looks more like some fan-teasing method to speed up the pre-orders for the 1st batch of 1000 copies.
    ... and if (according to many posters above) the first 1000 copies won't sell, EVERY buyer will get the DVD.
    That is absolutely the reason why it's being done. The most sales, these days, are from preorders and off the stage (no longer possible with AH, sadly!), so if people are prepared to preorder in hopes of getting one with the DVD, then why not?

    And yes, if this title (even more sadly) cannot sell 1,000 copies, then yes, everyone who buys it will have it.

    But you see this everywhere these days: deluxe edition, super deluxe editions, ultimate deluxe editions (witness today's announcement of McCartney's reissues of Red Rose Speedway and Wildlife!). At a time when fewer people are buying hard media, artists and labels are looking for ways to entice people into buying, whether it's limited edition bonus features (like the DVD here) or, super deluxe editions in very limited numbers. It's all about trying to entice people to buy....and buy early, as that's when the most sales happen (again, barring off the stage for bands/artists who are touring).

    So you're right....but I don't see anything wrong with it. Is it that you are philosophically offended by the idea of two versions of a reissue, in many cases used as an enticement for preorders? If so, sorry my friend, but you'd better tighten your belt as this is far from the only example of this practice these days. Me? I accept it because, amongst the bigger complexities of why the music biz is as it is right now, one undeniable truth is that part of the blame falls flatly on consumers.
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    Exactly my thoughts, and hence my earlier questions. I get that the market for this is small. You're already pressing the DVD--just include it with all the sets and price accordingly.
    Yes, but how many DVDs you press matters. I suspect Manifesto figures it should (operative word) be able to move 1,000 copies, perhaps more, and so use this as a "limited edition" release not unlike the many limited edition releases that we see all the time. And they're probably trying to stick to a price point (I'm just guessing here, but this is one reason), so that the release is priced as what most folks would consider reasonable and, so, would be inclined to buy it. It costs them more to press those DVDs, but if they sell those first 1,000 fast and there's more demand for the title, then it's done the job.

    But, again, this feels like philosophical issue with using things like this to entice people to buy hard media. If you knew just how rough it is out in the world of hard media, you might feel less against what labels like this are doing...

    ...and ya can't win. When Crimson did the 6-disc Court of the Crimson King in 2009 as a limited edition, and after selling out pressed some more, those who bought the limited edition that now was not were pissed at them. So, perhaps, those who preorder to get the DVD would be cranky at Manifesto for pressing more copies with DVDs, if they sell out.

    It's almost impossible for labels to please everybody these days, it seems!
    Cheers,
    John
    John Kelman
    Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
    Freelance writer/photographer

  8. #33
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Anybody else's DVD have a glitch at 21:49 in Panic Station?
    Mine arrived glued into the sleeve and I had a lot of difficulty getting it out -- wondering if it's possibly related to the glitch.

  9. #34
    Marklar Jimmy Giant's Avatar
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    Arrived a few hours ago. Horrible packaging. Discs were melded into the cardboard but no damage. Just took Hercules to get them out.
    Mine glitched at 21:47 but kept playing (computer drive). Just about a second. Figures its during my favorite song. I can live with it for its value.
    JG

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  10. #35
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Giant View Post
    Arrived a few hours ago. Horrible packaging. Discs were melded into the cardboard but no damage. Just took Hercules to get them out.
    Mine glitched at 21:47 but kept playing (computer drive). Just about a second. Figures its during my favorite song. I can live with it for its value.
    I guess it's a defect in manufacturing and not just something that happened to my copy. Thanks

  11. #36
    (aka timmybass69) timmy's Avatar
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    How is the video and audio quality of the DVD?
    "Why is it when these great Prog guys get together, they always want to make a Journey album?"
    - fiberman, 7/5/2015

  12. #37
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy View Post
    How is the video and audio quality of the DVD?
    Sounds and looks great, aside from the couple of glitches and allowing for the fact that it was a standard definition 1984 production originally intended for videocassette and laserdisc.

  13. #38
    Marklar Jimmy Giant's Avatar
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    I've only checked out the area of the glitch in Panic Station as I haven't had time to watch it all yet. My guess is it was a rendering problem and they never reviewed the finished video before burning it. Another reason is that there didn't seem to be any glitch in the playback, it only digitally scrambled and jumped briefly. I doubt they would recall this.

    I only watched that part on my PC, but from that it seemed like decent audio/video. I'm sure I'll be happy with it for it's priceless snapshot in time.

    I saw Allan first around '86 or '87 opening for Chick Corea's Elektric Band and I can say it was quite different just a couple years beyond I.O.U.
    JG

    "MARKLAR!"

  14. #39
    Member Boceephus's Avatar
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    Still waiting.


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  15. #40
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Got my copy today, and it did include the DVD. I don't know whether to be happy or sad! I ordered from Amazon - I did check Wayside first but it wasn't listed on the site.

    BTW, Amazon's listing says it's 1 Disk, but also mentions that the first 1000 will include the DVD. So it felt like a bit of a crap shoot, but John saying it was unlikely to sell more than 1000 copies did kind of reassure me. But I hope it will ultimately sell more and benefit Allan's family as much as possible.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Got my copy today, and it did include the DVD. I don't know whether to be happy or sad! I ordered from Amazon - I did check Wayside first but it wasn't listed on the site.

    BTW, Amazon's listing says it's 1 Disk, but also mentions that the first 1000 will include the DVD. So it felt like a bit of a crap shoot, but John saying it was unlikely to sell more than 1000 copies did kind of reassure me. But I hope it will ultimately sell more and benefit Allan's family as much as possible.
    I have a feeling it going to sell more 1000. Maybe it was put out there to get quicker sales. There are over 14000 in a Holdsworth group on fb that wanted it. Someone had posted a pict of buying 6.

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  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    I have a feeling it going to sell more 1000. Maybe it was put out there to get quicker sales. There are over 14000 in a Holdsworth group on fb that wanted it. Someone had posted a pict of buying 6.

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    14,000 Holdsworth FB fans?!! Where were all these people when I saw him play in front of about 50-80 people in small clubs/bars in a major city?

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    The laserdisc, btw, which is called Tokyo Dream--Allan Holdsworth in Japan, has the same setlist listed in the OP and the band is AH, Williams, Wackerman and JJohnson. The LD, which is in uncompressed digital pcm stereo , runs 82 minutes and it says it was recorded on May 14, 1984. So I'm guessing the DVD is the same recording as the LD, and maybe even a transfer from the LD.
    My guess is correct--just watched the DVD tnite and it looks like a direct transfer from the Japanese LD I have, the video quality is good (a little soft but it's an 84 concert shot on videotape), but it's no better than the DVD I recorded direct from the LD. (Japanese subtitles in interview segments). No PCM audio, it's Dolby Digital 2.0. It's also in "fake" widescreen as I think it was shot in 4:3 ratio. No menu on the disc. My "glitch" was at about 21:54 and was just like a slight skip for a second, no big deal. And my discs weren't stuck or had a glue issue.

    Still a great video document to have, clear and simple stage setup with great shots of Holdsworth playing. I was glad to buy the release and help the family out, and I would love to see more live concert (esp DVD) releases from AH's vault.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 12-13-2018 at 01:57 AM.

  19. #44
    It obviously sold more than 1000. Someone on fb said they just got the cd!!!

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  20. #45
    Member StarThrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    It obviously sold more than 1000. Someone on fb said they just got the cd!!!

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    I bought it for the CD. The video has been up on YouTube for years. The CD sounds good. Allan played some great live solos at that concert.

  21. #46
    Member Mikhael's Avatar
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    It figures; the first live release they do after his death, and it's the one I already have (both in CD and DVD). I didn't know mine were "boots" when I bought them; it was a regular CD store (which of course doesn't exist anymore). There's bound to be more live material, though - I've seen what looked like pro shots of other gigs.
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  22. #47
    Banned Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    The old CD wasn’t a boot; IIRC it was put out as a legit release by Williams without getting Holdsworth's OK.

  23. #48
    The setlist appears to be an expanded version of the 1997 IOU Live CD that Paul Williams released against AH's wishes.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ssully View Post
    The setlist appears to be an expanded version of the 1997 IOU Live CD that Paul Williams released against AH's wishes.
    Did Holsdworth approve of any release...lol

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  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by progman1975 View Post
    Did Holsdworth approve of any release...lol

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